Planting in Australia

kozak · Post by **kozak** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:20 pm

[Edit by Admin: This topic is a compilation of half a dozen different topics about planting in Australia that I just merged together. I'll put a link to this topic from the Companies forum, to make it easier to find].

We should try to make a list of treeplanting companies in Europe, Australia, etc. because some people know but if you don't know those people it's really hard to find on google... And I think a lot of people could be interrested in that kind of list so... Thanks!

The Wolf · Post by **The Wolf** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:38 am

The only companies worth working for in Australia are "Impact Forestry" and "Northern Forestry". both based out of (or near) Melbourne/Victoria State. I have the contact info, but I won't post it here as planting in Australia is to be done only if YOU'RE THERE ALREADY, not on a "destination" basis. I learned that the hard way. Trust me. So send me a personal message if you want more info, as these guys have contracts that a Canadian vet can make $300AUD at.

usufruct · Post by **usufruct** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:37 am

Hi

We are an experienced tree planting company based in Australia. We have been operating all over the Country for the past 8 years.

We are always seeking experienced tree planters to due our crews. Contracts operate all year round, so there is enough money to be made 12 months of the year.

You can view our website to read about our Company at http://www.usufruct.com.au

If you know of any experiened tree planters wanting to earn some extra money in Australia please forward them our way. Would love to have them on board.

You can also contact me personally on Mob: +61 413 452 700.

Look forward to hearing from you guys soon.

Tracy

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:43 pm

My apologies if this seems overly suspicious, Tracy of Usufruct, but I don't understand what incentive you have to hire Canadian planters; wouldn't it be more convenient and easy to hire locals? Could you perhaps explain a little of the benefit of hiring internationally, so that we can understand why you would post here that you are looking for planters, rather than just hiring people who don't have to trouble with Visa's and expensive travel and such?

And I see posts such as this; http://canberra.gumtree.com.au/c-Jobs-g ... dZ55276872

TREE PLANTERS REQUIRED URGENTLY - VIC & NSW

Ad ID: 55276872
Visits: 90
Location: Canberra
Date Listed: 05/06/2008

Experienced or Rookie Tree Planters urgently required for tree planting contract in the following regions:

Tumbarumba - Southern New South Wales (Snowy Mountains)
Myrtleford - Northern Victoria (Near Mt Hotham)

Excellent piece rates apply. For further information please visit our website at:

http://www.usufruct.com.au and sumbit an employment form.

and I wonder why it is that you have trouble finding tree-planters. Are Canadians just that much better suited to the job? Can you make estimates on your summer season next year? (I know it is a long time in advance, but in Canada, we know next year planting is going to be severely reduced, and thus, if you know you'll still be looking for lots of workers, including from around the world, it could allow planters from Canada to plan ahead for our poor season).

And if it is possible, would you be able to give me the e-mail address of a planter working with you (by private message)? I am considering trying to spend a year planting around the world, and certainly, Australia would be a great place to spend a few months; but I'd like to know what I am getting into as much as possible.

donkeyrider · Post by **donkeyrider** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:09 pm

Well I saw this add a while ago and I've been planning on taking some time away from school so a couple of months ago I applied for a job with them, and to show that I planned on going I kept emailing the supervisor every couple weeks. They seem to have there shit straight and from what I understand Australian forestry companies are never really all that comfortable with their planters because most of them are people just trying to extend their working holiday visas (by working in land cultivation for awhile you can extend your visa for another year). Not to mention the job really isn't really all that much fun to do.

For me it was a little bit of a hasle to get my travel affairs straight. I needed a new passport ($120 rush delivery), then I applied for a visa ($315 includes bank account and some other shit), and not to mention the airfare ($3000 return), getting the visa also means you have to have atleast 5000 in your bank to travel. I had none of this so I had to take a line of credit (oh well what can you do).

The contract I'm going to working on is in Barrington Tops National park 3 hours northwest of Sydney. 8-10 cents a tree, and planted with a shovel. Experienced planters plant about 4000 a day which is about 320AUD a day which isnt too bad, but the exchange rate is against us with the AUD at .84 to our dollar which means its about 260 bucks Canadian. But if you have ever looked at an Australian treeplanting block their worst land looks like our best land. ZERO Slash apparently sometghing called "double cultivated" which by the photos is what we thought treeplanting was going to be like before we planted our first BC tree (a nice plowed, flat, farmers field that has little trenches of dirt to place the trees and no slash.) Ohhh ya and in some places there are little markers to show you where you should plant the tree for perfect density.

Therefore, this place isn't exactly canada and the pay seems about the equivalent i plan to plant 5-6000 a day there if there planters plant 4000 but we'll see. HOnestly I'll be happy making 200 canadian a day there. I'll pay off some debt pay off my airfare and visa and crap and probably come home in april with a few grand in my pocket ready and in shape for my spring contract in BC. I don't think it will be at all as profitable as planting here and the planter dynamic is going to be completely layed back. So I figure it will be a pretty cool adventure for a couple months and just like canadain plantign I'll get to meet some cool people and make a few dollars, and Australian girls everywhere. But ya anywho I guess I can be the trial case for Australian vs Canadian treeplanting I'll try making a new thread and post as the season progresses Jan-april.

Hears a couple interesting facts:
-9-10 of the most deadly snakes on the planet are going to be right around where im planting.
-Apparently, there are rodents and other animals that like to burrow on the planting blocks to escape the heat (forget hitting a bees nest imagine sticking your shovel into a giant 2 foot long rat)
-Tidal pools on the coast are home to the most deadly jelly fish on the planet.
-Only one dominant species of pine tree, I tihnk I'm going to be planting Eucolyptus (Bad spelling I know) mostly.

Ok gotta go but I'll let everyone know how it goes and if the experience out weighs the damage to my bank account.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:10 am

@donkeyrider, definitely let us know how it goes. If it turns to be as you say, I really want to take some time off and do some Australia planting.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:45 pm

donkeyrider wrote:Well I saw this add a while ago and I've been planning on taking some time away from school so a couple of months ago I applied for a job with them, and to show that I planned on going I kept emailing the supervisor every couple weeks. They seem to have there shit straight and from what I understand Australian forestry companies are never really all that comfortable with their planters because most of them are people just trying to extend their working holiday visas (by working in land cultivation for awhile you can extend your visa for another year). Not to mention the job really isn't really all that much fun to do.

For me it was a little bit of a hasle to get my travel affairs straight. I needed a new passport ($120 rush delivery), then I applied for a visa ($315 includes bank account and some other shit), and not to mention the airfare ($3000 return), getting the visa also means you have to have atleast 5000 in your bank to travel. I had none of this so I had to take a line of credit (oh well what can you do).

The contract I'm going to working on is in Barrington Tops National park 3 hours northwest of Sydney. 8-10 cents a tree, and planted with a shovel. Experienced planters plant about 4000 a day which is about 320AUD a day which isnt too bad, but the exchange rate is against us with the AUD at .84 to our dollar which means its about 260 bucks Canadian. But if you have ever looked at an Australian treeplanting block their worst land looks like our best land. ZERO Slash apparently sometghing called "double cultivated" which by the photos is what we thought treeplanting was going to be like before we planted our first BC tree (a nice plowed, flat, farmers field that has little trenches of dirt to place the trees and no slash.) Ohhh ya and in some places there are little markers to show you where you should plant the tree for perfect density.

Therefore, this place isn't exactly canada and the pay seems about the equivalent i plan to plant 5-6000 a day there if there planters plant 4000 but we'll see. HOnestly I'll be happy making 200 canadian a day there. I'll pay off some debt pay off my airfare and visa and crap and probably come home in april with a few grand in my pocket ready and in shape for my spring contract in BC. I don't think it will be at all as profitable as planting here and the planter dynamic is going to be completely layed back. So I figure it will be a pretty cool adventure for a couple months and just like canadain plantign I'll get to meet some cool people and make a few dollars, and Australian girls everywhere. But ya anywho I guess I can be the trial case for Australian vs Canadian treeplanting I'll try making a new thread and post as the season progresses Jan-april.

Hears a couple interesting facts:
-9-10 of the most deadly snakes on the planet are going to be right around where im planting.
-Apparently, there are rodents and other animals that like to burrow on the planting blocks to escape the heat (forget hitting a bees nest imagine sticking your shovel into a giant 2 foot long rat)
-Tidal pools on the coast are home to the most deadly jelly fish on the planet.
-Only one dominant species of pine tree, I tihnk I'm going to be planting Eucolyptus (Bad spelling I know) mostly.

Ok gotta go but I'll let everyone know how it goes and if the experience out weighs the damage to my bank account.

Ask mr. Amazing about planting for usufruct.... I heard it's a massive gong show.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:03 pm

Whenever I try and compose something here about working for Usufruct, I seem to LOSE IT and write the weirdest stuff... It really, really, really, upsets me just thinking about it. They're the lousiest planting company in Australia. Please, no more PMs... Just let it go. Creaming out the world is impossible, OK!? Your AMAZING planting prowess is not required downunder. Jason and "Cyclone" Tracy can't get Aussies to work for them, so what does that tell you?!

PLANTING TREES IN AUSTRALIA IS ABSOLUTELY SHITTY, AND WORKING FOR 'USUFRUCT' IS AN 'ORDER OF MAGNITUDE' SHITTIER THAN THAT BASE LEVEL OF SHITTINESS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WORLDS AND LEVELS OF SHITTINESS WITHIN SHIT THAT DEFY WORDS AND IMAGINATIONS. IMAGINE THE WORST CONTRACT IN ONTARIO, THEN CUT THE TREE PRICE IN HALF, THEN DOUBLE THE TEMPERATURE. IT'S NO GOOD. IT'S BAD. ADD BIZARRE OWNERS, AND CREEPY/CRUEL FOREMEN, AND THE AUSTRALIAN TREEPLANTING EXPERIENCE COMES INTO VIEW. MEETING AND SEDUCING AUSTRALIAN WOMEN IS FUN, PLANTING TREES THERE IS THE OPPOSITE. IT'S HIGHLY 'UN-FUN'. WOULD YOU PAY $3000 TO GET TO A CONTRACT IN CANADA?! NO. THERE'S NO WAY YOU WOULD, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH.

DON'T PLANT TREES IN AUSTRALIA, IT SERIOUSLY SUCKS SHIT IN A BIG WAY.

MaSean · Post by **MaSean** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:57 pm

I've checked out the website of Outland resources in Aus. yes they have their own Outland and it seems worst then ours. they claim to be the biggest in Ausieland. This is what I got on their employee info page, under "Planting in Australia" http://www.outlandresources.com.au/plan ... tralia.php:

"Planters carry up to 160 seedlings at a time while walking along prepared mounds in the plantation. Using one of a variety of planting tools, each suited to different conditions, trees are planted in the ground at 2 to 3 metre spacing. Each tree planter averages from 1500 to 8000 trees per day depending on the conditions."

"The tree price ranges from 3 cents to 20 cents. It depends on the planting tool used and the planting conditions- mostly the quality of ground preparation. It is generally set for the contract and does not change. On most contracts the tree price is set so that average earnings for experienced planters are around $150 per day.

Motivated and experienced planters can and do make over $200 per day."

btw 200AUD = 158CAD!

Ouch I think I'll try construction if I can't find any planting work till spring.

Oh! and their moto just kills me! "Providing supervised crews in forestry and agriculture" wtf?? that's their big quality and mission?

mullitude · Post by **mullitude** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:55 pm

Hey donkeyrider how is australia going. You had the same plan as me, except I ended up staying in canada and am going coastal planting now. Hope all the bad news about this company is not totally true. There has got to be some hope for those looking to do this job year round. Although there are too many reports of Usufruct being a gong show. later

mblackfly · Post by **mblackfly** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:04 pm

Anything that creeps, crawls, or flys is poisonous in Australia. Consider yourself warned.

vacationer · Post by **vacationer** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:14 pm

Usufruct is a very old word, derived from Latin, meaning the legal right to use and derive profit or benefit from property that belongs to another person.

sghyselincks · Post by **sghyselincks** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:11 pm

A lot of people have questions about Australian planting and Usufruct. My brother and I are currently planting in Australia and just finished a one month stint with them, and would like to share our experience, so maybe others will think twice before shelling out thousands to fly out here.

I have had two very successful seasons back in Canada working for Outland/La Foret de Demain in Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan. My brother has been planting for three pretty long seasons as well, so we were excited by the prospect of getting in shape and making some money in Australia in preparation for the Canadian season.

**************************************************************************************************************************************

So, I flew down into Sydney and met up with Jason, Sean, and Luke from Usufruct in Gloucester, we headed out the next day for Walcha, as the two crews the company operates were merging together since it was too dry to plant in Gloucester. My first day of planting was definitely a system shock. We started the ceremonies with twenty people planting a 4000-5000 tree piece. You can just imagine the excitement of finishing a fifty-tree row and then walking 20 meters past the other 19 rows being planted to find the next open spot. If you start a row and run out of trees, you are responsible for finishing it, so you walk all the way back to get more trees, and then back into where you left off. Once you finish the row, you may end up forty rows away from all the time you wasted, and then you waste more time walking to where everyone else is. The other planters told me the system wasn't so bad with two ten-person crews, but everyone was bitching about the gangbang that day.

The trees are not planted using bags but instead using homemade cowbells that you attach the cassettes to. You can load up a maximum of four 40 or 60-tree cassettes at a time, but they have an obnoxious tendency to drop the cassettes if you move too fast; and at 7.5 Australian cents per tree (about 6 Canadian cents) you better be moving damned fast. The belts also lacked shoulder straps, and if you are like me with no hips, all the weight ends up on your ass cheeks, which just tires out your legs pretty quickly. I managed to rig up a decent system using pieces from different belts but the cassettes of course still have a tendency to jostle around interrupting any sense of rhythm.

A camelback is a must in Australia, which of course I didn't have. When moving through areas at 20 times the production of a single person, you end up pretty far away from all your food and water pretty quickly. There were some days where a few hours planting in direct sunlight with 35 degree heat would go by before you would be reunited, terribly dehydrated with your precious water. I think it's pretty much the same deal with any Australian planting company and the equipment at Usufruct does not have a back bag for a water bottle, so bring a camelback.

Quality in both Walcha and Gloucester was the same: deep and tight. You essentially want to bury at least 4-5cm of the tree stem and close the hole tight enough so that the tree will break before you have any hope of pulling it out of the ground. The depth and tightness go hand in hand so generally Sean and Luke walk down your row tugging at trees and if they can pull them out of the ground, it's a bad tree. Spacing was 2 meters but it looked like most people were planting 1.8 and it wasn't an issue.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************

We continued with the two-crew madness for a few days until it became so dry that we had to stop planting in Walcha as well. We switched over to refill, or as they call it here, in-fill. We had a special twist on things though; we had to "fert" all the trees as well. Fert is short for fertilizer in Australian planting and is choc full of heavy metals, such as lead, mercury, and my favourite, cadmium. The main components are nitrogen compounds like ammonium nitrate in such high concentrations that they will kill any vegetation they come into direct contact with. The label clearly stated to avoid contact with skin and eyes and to avoid breathing in the dust, but whatever, one day of fert couldn’t be that bad. Well, we continued on to a second day of fert-refill and eventually stopped planting altogether due to the lack of rain and switched to pure "ferting". Around this time I got a bad puncture wound on my foot (not planting related) and took a week off flying out to Melbourne.

When I got back, no one was working because it had been pissing rain for a week and you cant fertilize in the rain. The next day it cleared up though and I had my first day of ferting. The idea is to get 100g of these nasty chemicals buried in a hole in the ground 6-12 inches from the tree. We started the morning by hauling 40kg sacks of fert (yes 88lbs, a real back breaker) into a few trailers. Then we would cut open the bags and dump them out forming a nice cloud of fert dust-- ahhh, feel the burn in your lungs? That's the fert doing its job. We were using these metal tubes with spring-loaded levers that open the "beak" in front to distribute the fert. You load up 10kg "buckets" at about 4-5 AUD a pop and use a 100g scoop to dump fert down the tube into the beak, then shove the beak in the ground and open it using the lever. A great system, but not so ergonomic, considering they weigh quite a bit, have a handle that juts 90 degrees outward that's just another metal tube, and require you to constantly squeeze a lever under the handle.

We eventually left Walcha to go to Gloucester again. The two weeks that ensued ultimately caused me and half the other planters to leave. Everything just turned into even more of a gong show. In one week we ran out of gas twice, causing us to abandon a vehicle and sucking plenty of time out of production. A large amount of resentment began to grow between a number of the planters and Luke and Sean. We'd spend a lot of the production time dicking around with various broken parts and driving to the wrong area. They would get a lot of the planters to drive the vehicles around in dangerous situations. I ended up rolling a quad on one day and then after recovering it, I unhitched the trailer from it, which pushed my hand up into the exhaust. As I write this I have a large burn on my hand that's going to leave a big scar once it finally heals. Another planter stalled a truck on a hill with a trailer. He had the parking brake on, but all the vehicle parking brakes are broken. So he had his foot jammed on the brake, but the brakes were shot too. So the truck starts rolling backwards and off the road down a steep hill into a gully. The trailer hit a stump and jack-knifed which fortunately stopped the truck from getting demolished. It was a pretty damn dangerous situation. Knock some more production time off that day, as well as the next few from lacking a vehicle.

After work it was almost impossible to get into town to buy food. Management fired a couple who'd just gotten married and came out planting to save up money for pretty much no good reason. They took a day off, which many others did, because one of them had a sore leg, and got fired for it. Apparently Luke really didn't like this couple and just wanted to get rid of them. Neither of them had been paid yet after several weeks of work though, so they were stuck at the house 1.5 hours out of town with us for an entire week before getting a ride into town, at which point only one of them had been paid. During this time they could have been planting, but they had to watch us go out and come back every day, packing their things and unpacking again, waiting to get into town, making no money.

By this point a lot of the planters had quit and resentment was running high between planters and management. Luke would be super nice and flirty with the four single females planting with us, and just yell at and abuse a lot of the other planters including me. You might just be trying to help with something and then you'd get yelled at. Fucking do this, fucking do that, come on hurry up! ect. There was never any plan in the morning or discussion of tree prices or type of land. Just the occasional meeting about some "fucking shithead" who wrote things about the company on the truck, or some "fucking shithead" who left tuna in the back of the troopie. Or about some piece of shit planting shallow trees (a pretty easy mistake to make in Australia).

My last week we got an entire reefer of some really awful stock. They were cassettes of 40 trees with about 5-10 culls per tray. The pods must have been glued in because a lot of trees would get ripped off the pod attempting to pull the plug out. Me and my bro were using the fert bags to plant, but on our last day, Luke and Sean found some trees that had been separated from the pods on the road and accused me and my bro of mishandling the stock. We were pulling the fuckers out one-by-one and sometimes you'd get a bad cassette with 4 or 5 rip outs. So as punishment, no more bags ever again, and back to the unwieldy homemade junk cowbells. A big argument between Luke and I ensued involving all sorts of shouting and aggression that just kept escalating. He really wanted me to leave, but he had no good reason to fire me. Meanwhile my crew boss Sean was almost begging me and my bro to stay. Most of the high production planters had already left at this point looking for greener pastures, and the camp size was shrinking fast.

We didn't stop work that day and actually gave the crap-bells a chance. Those contraptions just took all the fun out of planting when your cassettes fell off everywhere, and sometimes you needed two hands to pull a tree out because of the sticky stock-- all for 7.5 cents AUD a tree. So that night we decided to quit, and follow the rest of new friends who had quit to a different company.

We're going to give it a second shot. Sure, the earnings aren't as high here... that's normal. And maybe the weather is a bit hot, that's fine. Shitty tree stock? Shit happens. Lack of work? Can't control the weather. Chemical burn fert? I can deal with it. **But--- management that treats you like a piece of shit and runs a complete gong show day where you spend most your time sitting in a vehicle or just standing around? I won't do it.

I'll let everyone know how the next company goes and give more details when I get there.

Do yourself a favour: don't plant Usufruct; it's just not worth it.

Duncan · Post by **Duncan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:41 pm

Saffa wrote:Anyone know of any planting in New Zealand??

I travelled there a few years ago and tried to find out. I had some relations on the North Island who knew a few people who did it on the South Island but I never found anymore, didn't care about it as I had no work visa.
It sounded like it was part of another job so maybe the loggers were planting it. Also sounded pretty low pay, like .10 for a coastal tree but I only saw blocks which looked clean (like nothing on them at all) mounded, and spaced very wide. They cut the trees down in like 20-30 years. mostly pine if I remember correctly.
Most of what I heard about the planting itself was second hand from non planters so probably is not true at all, but if it's on the South Island I imagine it would be like on most of the coastal BC and the north would be more like around Kamploops.

At the very northern tip of the North Island I saw a wack load of pine space one meter apart on a beach stretching for miles and miles. I think it was called 50 mile beach or something. I cried.
And it was only a plantation because they didn't want the sand from the beach to blow over the only road to some tourist spot.

If anyone knows more they should post it on here because I imagine planting in New Zealand would be much better than in Australia. Though I've heard one or two good stories about aus I can't imagine the planting in the desert heat and New Zealand is just a better place. Just like Canada is better than the US.

I'm looking forward to the next part of that aussie experience.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:47 pm

Thanks for the review, sghyselincks. Hope that there is at least one good aussie company out there, even if Usufruct is a gong-show.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:41 am

yeah thanks a lot for the review, i was thinking about going with those guys a few years ago, via email they sounded friendly enough. but that sounds horrible in almost every way imaginable, unnecessarily so. Let us know how the next one goes!

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:24 am

it sounds just as awful as Mr. Amazing said earlier.

mass · Post by **mass** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:35 pm

I worked for Usufruct for 3 contracts, 2 seasons ago. I find it hard to believe that Luke is still working there. There were 2 foremen when I worked there, Luke and Dean, both very incompetent, but in different ways. Dean could be ignored because he didn't do anything, he was supposed to be our tree runner, but he sat in the truck all day and ignored us and we ran our own trees.That was fine.He eventually was fired. Luke treated us all like shit. Their were only 3 Aussies planting and the rest of us were from Canada, New Zealand and other European countries. There was no respect for planters at this company, we were degrated and demoralized all day. Luke came into our accomodation one night in the winter about 0 degrees C, and he's drunk and has no shirt and threatens to beat the shit out us for not finishing the block that day. (he was under the impression it was finished)
Even when the tree checkers had no problems, Luke would create problems to impress them.We were working in ground that was all decayed leaves and sticks and it was impossible to get a really tight tree, The tree checker had no problems, but Luke said my trees weren't tight enough and pulled out a whole box forme to replant just to impress the guy. I replanted then waited 35 minutes for more trees, but they never came, our tree runner was still talking to the Checker. That was my last day with Usufruct.
For 1 contract we stayed in a caravan(trailer), all the planters in 1 trailer, and the foreman had his own trailer. The owner of the trailer park sent a letter to Jason saying we left the trailer in a mess,and she was disgusted that we could be so dirty etc etc. and it took her a long time to clean it up properly.
So he actually deducted money from our pay to componsate hiring cleaning ladies for that trailer. I mean shit, there were like 12 planters living in there, and we didn't have a cook, we had to go to town every night, buy groceries and cook dinner after planting.
I don't mean to slander people or companies, but that's just the way it went ehen I was there.
I'll say something positive for them-
The Mellville Island contract is supposed to be amazing, I know someone who planted 10 000 trees in one day, apparantly you could earn $200Aud by lunch time, I don't think they got that contract anymore though.

sghyselincks · Post by **sghyselincks** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:25 am

After cooling off for a week on the beach on the North Coast of NSW, I found another planting job in Aussie. I'll be working for outland out of Casino, NSW planting 6 cent trees in similar terrain. When I talked over the phone, it sounds like they are using Bushpro cowbells or something similar to hold the cassettes, and they are rigged with shoulder straps, so it should be an improvement. I'll let you guys know how they go, they are a pretty large company, similar to the Canadian version so there shouldn't be the same sort of problems there.

Johnny Cash · Post by **Johnny Cash** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:29 am

Hello everyone. I'm Johnny Cash and I'm a veteran planter from Ontario. I would just like to breifly defend the apparently dreaded Australian planting company called Usufruct as my experience with them has been largely positive. Let me just say first that Jason (the big boss) Sean and Luke (crew bosses) are all stand up guys. Sure Luke and Sean can be a bit mean sometimes but they only mean it in a joking manner. If you throw their insults right back to them, they will love and respect you for it. If you let them get to you, you will go home a broken man with your panties in a bunch. There is a common expression in Australia which exemplifies the general attitude of it's people..."harden the f*** up!!"

You can tell by the length of "sghyselincks" post that he had a personal vendetta against the company and especially against Luke and has gone out of his way to vent his frustrations and let you know all the negative aspects of Usufruct. I would like to briefly list some of the more positive sides to it. The planting equiptment is not that bad. With a few adjustments you will find that your belt will fit comfortably and you will no longer be dropping trays. You can share water with your friends (if you have any) any time you reach one of the vehicles. You do have to get your trees hard and deep which isn't difficult given most of the land is very soft soil. You will be asked to drive vehicles and quads but of course can refuse if you feel at all uncomfortable. Personally I feel that it is a fun part of the day. I too almost flipped a quad and actually lost a trailer somewhere down the road to which Jason lauged and basically told me to keep planting, not to worry about it, and that he would go recover the lost trailer himself. As for more major accidents like losing a truck down a ditch or other vehicles breaking down and getting stuck...it happens. Harden the f*** up. As if a truck has never broken down in Canada.

As for the most important issue facing a tree planter's life...money. The money is pretty good. To be honest I didn't work very hard at all and still made enough money to continue my travels. Some days during our Walcha contract I did make around $250, while the camp highballers threw down 4,000+ trees making $320+. Fertilizing is not fun. It is messy and it stinks (complain about it, see what they say), but as far as money goes a lot of people make more money at ferting than they do planting. There was one fellow from NZ who was making $500-$600 a day!! I was nowhere near his earnings, but it is certainly possible if you are fit and have a strong work ethic.

In closing I would just like to say that I felt almost all the planters there were happy with their Usufruct experience, and many have stayed on long after me to keep making money. They all seemed to have a good report with Luke and Sean. As with any planting company, I recomend you keep your head down, do your work, and most importantly, don't cross the boss. Sean and Luke are those type of guys that at first seem like ass holes but then become your really good friends. So don't let them get to you and do your work properly and you'll get along fine. As for flirting with single females, I would highly recomend it. However, I wouldn't recomend coming all the way to Australia soley for the purpose of planting trees. I recomend getting out and seeing this beautiful country and using planting as your springboard to further adventures. It is important to realize that planting in Australia IS NOT planting in Canada. It is a much smaller industry over here and there are quite a few differences. So if you do go with Usufruct, let go of your pre concieved notions of planting, and just know that you'll be making money in no time if you stick with it. Let me know if anyone has some more specific questions. Thank you for your time.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:33 am

Johnny Cash wrote:Hello everyone. I'm Johnny Cash and I'm a veteran planter from Ontario. I would just like to breifly defend the apparently dreaded Australian planting company called Usufruct as my experience with them has been largely positive. Let me just say first that Jason (the big boss) Sean and Luke (crew bosses) are all stand up guys. Sure Luke and Sean can be a bit mean sometimes but they only mean it in a joking manner. If you throw their insults right back to them, they will love and respect you for it. If you let them get to you, you will go home a broken man with your panties in a bunch. There is a common expression in Australia which exemplifies the general attitude of it's people..."harden the f*** up!!"

You can tell by the length of "sghyselincks" post that he had a personal vendetta against the company and especially against Luke and has gone out of his way to vent his frustrations and let you know all the negative aspects of Usufruct. I would like to briefly list some of the more positive sides to it. The planting equiptment is not that bad. With a few adjustments you will find that your belt will fit comfortably and you will no longer be dropping trays. You can share water with your friends (if you have any) any time you reach one of the vehicles. You do have to get your trees hard and deep which isn't difficult given most of the land is very soft soil. You will be asked to drive vehicles and quads but of course can refuse if you feel at all uncomfortable. Personally I feel that it is a fun part of the day. I too almost flipped a quad and actually lost a trailer somewhere down the road to which Jason lauged and basically told me to keep planting, not to worry about it, and that he would go recover the lost trailer himself. As for more major accidents like losing a truck down a ditch or other vehicles breaking down and getting stuck...it happens. Harden the f*** up. As if a truck has never broken down in Canada.

As for the most important issue facing a tree planter's life...money. The money is pretty good. To be honest I didn't work very hard at all and still made enough money to continue my travels. Some days during our Walcha contract I did make around $250, while the camp highballers threw down 4,000+ trees making $320+. Fertilizing is not fun. It is messy and it stinks (complain about it, see what they say), but as far as money goes a lot of people make more money at ferting than they do planting. There was one fellow from NZ who was making $500-$600 a day!! I was nowhere near his earnings, but it is certainly possible if you are fit and have a strong work ethic.

In closing I would just like to say that I felt almost all the planters there were happy with their Usufruct experience, and many have stayed on long after me to keep making money. They all seemed to have a good report with Luke and Sean. As with any planting company, I recomend you keep your head down, do your work, and most importantly, don't cross the boss. Sean and Luke are those type of guys that at first seem like ass holes but then become your really good friends. So don't let them get to you and do your work properly and you'll get along fine. As for flirting with single females, I would highly recomend it. However, I wouldn't recomend coming all the way to Australia soley for the purpose of planting trees. I recomend getting out and seeing this beautiful country and using planting as your springboard to further adventures. It is important to realize that planting in Australia IS NOT planting in Canada. It is a much smaller industry over here and there are quite a few differences. So if you do go with Usufruct, let go of your pre concieved notions of planting, and just know that you'll be making money in no time if you stick with it. Let me know if anyone has some more specific questions. Thank you for your time.

This is obviously a bullshit posting by Jason or Tracy... These people are truly rotten to the core, and will rot in hell. They're total losers...

Johnny Cash · Post by **Johnny Cash** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 am

Hmmm...Mr. Frustrated. You better take your meds or something. I assure everyone that I am a real Canadian tree planter who just finished working for Usufruct and yes, had a positive planting experience. I just saw so many negative posts about the company that I thought I would share my experience with the rest of you and encourage those that would like to go to do so. I can assure you that Sean and Luke have an influx of calls every day from people that want to work for them, Aussies and backpackers alike. There will always be planters coming and going...inexperienced and highballers alike. There will also be the occasional prima donna who doesn't get along with the staff, quits or gets fired, and then goes on line to post all about how they were unfairly treated. Meanwhile countless other planters have worked through the same conditions and come out on the other side with fat wallets and friends for life. "Oooooh...I'm Mr. Amazing. I'm so amazing I couldn't handle planting in Australia. It's so hot out and the crew bosses are real meanies!" Harden the fuck up Mr. Amazing.

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:47 am

I had a request for the whois-lookup of the IP for this last posting:

inetnum: 165.228.0.0 - 165.228.255.255
netname: TELSTRAINTERNET14-AU
descr: Telstra Internet
descr: Locked Bag 5744
descr: Canberra
descr: ACT 2601
country: AU
admin-c: TIAR-AP

But just because this post was made from Canberra, which is where Usufruct is based, doesn't necessarily mean that this is NOT really a Canadian planter who just happens to be staying there. In other words, while the whois-lookup data may appear suspicious, it doesn't really prove anything.

Johnny Cash · Post by **Johnny Cash** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:12 am

Oh don't worry my friends. I'm really real. I'm at an internet cafe in Sydney actually, I don't know why it says Canberra. Jason lives down near Melbourne and I really don't know who this Tracy lady is. I've never heard mention of her at all. Do I sound like one of them or what? Anyways, I just thought people should get a different spin on the whole Usufruct thing. Good luck to everyone in their planting endeavours.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:14 am

Scooter wrote:I had a request for the whois-lookup of the IP for this last posting:

inetnum: 165.228.0.0 - 165.228.255.255
netname: TELSTRAINTERNET14-AU
descr: Telstra Internet
descr: Locked Bag 5744
descr: Canberra
descr: ACT 2601
country: AU
admin-c: TIAR-AP
But just because this post was made from Canberra, which is where Usufruct is based, doesn't necessarily mean that this is NOT really a Canadian planter who just happens to be staying there. In other words, while the whois-lookup data may appear suspicious, it doesn't really prove anything.

you don't need proof, that whole post smacks of a lame attempt at damage control. This is the first positive review I've ever heard of this garbage company, and it's all defensive with a 'suck it up' attitude. You'll have to do better than that, we're not idiots over here....

really_real · Post by **really_real** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:09 am

Oh don't worry my friends. I'm really real.

Really? That's crazy. So am I !!! My name is Really Real !!!

Ironically, I happen to be a really-real Canadian who is posting from an internet cafe in my company owner's basement!

Johnny, why don't you prove that you're Canadian, and talk to us about hockey? You should be a big fan of the MJ's if you're from Ontario. Let's talk sports.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:08 am

Johnny Cash wrote:Hmmm...Mr. Frustrated. You better take your meds or something. I assure everyone that I am a real Canadian tree planter who just finished working for Usufruct and yes, had a positive planting experience. I just saw so many negative posts about the company that I thought I would share my experience with the rest of you and encourage those that would like to go to do so. I can assure you that Sean and Luke have an influx of calls every day from people that want to work for them, Aussies and backpackers alike. There will always be planters coming and going...inexperienced and highballers alike. There will also be the occasional prima donna who doesn't get along with the staff, quits or gets fired, and then goes on line to post all about how they were unfairly treated. Meanwhile countless other planters have worked through the same conditions and come out on the other side with fat wallets and friends for life. "Oooooh...I'm Mr. Amazing. I'm so amazing I couldn't handle planting in Australia. It's so hot out and the crew bosses are real meanies!" Harden the fuck up Mr. Amazing.

You know what, I didn't want to overtly shit-talk Usufruct, so I over emphysized things that were more ~minor irritants~ (the weather, low tree prices, etc.), rather than focus on the truly horrendous aspects of your bullshit company.

Now you've made me angry, though...

FACTS ABOUT USUFRUCT:
1. The foreman will regularly yell and swear at you. This is not done in a some kind of jovial way, it's just the prevailing attitude from Jason on down. They're bastards.
2. If there is an overclaim, let's say, 500 trees (let's imagine there were 100 000 planted that day; that equals 0.5%, SUPER MINOR) they'll deduct 500 trees off of each persons tally AS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT. They're so crazy and paranoid about people trying to screw them, in response they figure it's OK to screw every single planter instead.

QUESTIONS FOR JOHNNY CASH:
1. Are you from Ontario Province, or Ontario City?
2. Who did you plant for in Canada?
3. The term "double-double" has a few common uses. How would you as a Canadian use the term? Explain the cultural significance (or lack thereof) of this term.
4. Describe some of the neighborhoods in Toronto.
5. Why was Alberta Province so pissed off with Ottawa in the 1980's?
6. What are some things you like about Winnipeg?

donkeyrider · Post by **donkeyrider** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:51 pm

alrighty I didnt wanna get my hands dirty but here I go.

I worked for Usufruct for a couple weeks while I was in australia. Sean is a good guy in my opinion I really liked him great guy, told him if he was ever in the BC neighbourhood for the summer I'd hook him up. However, as straight up as I can be:

The prices were shit:
-like 4.5 cents a tree, the land was awesome but its still shit money.
-most of the time you have to fert trees you've previously planted and pay for that is 4 dollars for every 2 kg of fert. For those of you who havent fert'ed before its like emptying bags of cat litter with a shot glass.

organization:
- There was always work to be done, but they were foten far apart and it was a cattle plant show every single day. Now you think you know what a cattle? No you have no idea until you've planted the Aussi way. I'm not going to go into detail but one day we have 17 people on the same piece.
-When I got there the most senior guy on the crew had only been there 6 days... no one knew what they were doing including myself because it was much different.
- I'm not sure if I said this already one day we spent like 4 hours unloading the reefer for free and we werent even planting we were fertilizing.

Safety:
This was probably my biggest concern besides money. I'm all for going a little jungho everyonce in a while but this place was just stupid. Remember those 17 people I was talking about before? Well all of us were crammed in one troopy with no seat belts. We drive on cliff edges all day in the middle of nowhere. The only safety equiptment we had was sean's cell phone that had no reception. This is in a place where I say red belly black snakes and Funnel web spiders. Simply, they will kill you and you ahve no way to get out except for a shitty truck. no Helicopter no safety training, nothing. At the time we had two quads... one didnt have any breaks and I remember Jacko going off the side of a hill on it one day. The heat when I was there was like 40 degrees for 5-6 days in a row... and we didnt have water bottles... he told us that he had a big one in the truck. Later I found out that the big one was an old jerry can that tasted like gas "petrol" ... and I dont mean a little I mean it burned my throat when I drank this shit. I was stuck in the "house" in barrington for 6 days and only had that jerry can to drink out of. The house I had a cum stained matress to sleep on and I was paying 25 bucks a day and cooking for myself.

Now here's the real selling point. This is the main reason I left Usufruct.
on my last night out we stayed (like 8 of us) at Sean's place in Gloucester and we had a little party. Everything was great until Sean got drunk and started freaking out. To make it short that night he walked down the road with a pair of butcher knives trying to stap his girlfriend becasue she slapped him for talking to another girl. When myself and two other guys finally brought him home he started throwing 26'er bottles at people/ planters/ and walls. To top it off he took his Gf's stuff and burned it out on the front lawn. When I finally got to bed in a room with like 5 people in it we got to listen to him and his gf smacking each other around for half the night. In the morning I was gone I left my all my info and baknk info for him with another palnter and never say a dime from them. Now I could have went to the police or what ever but I didnt really need the planting money I contacted people in the company above Sean to see why I hadent been paid and he said " you cant just leave like that blah blah blah... and I replied by saying so your trying not to pay me? He said were not doing anything and you yshould have saw this on the paper work... well fuck that I was never given ANY paper work from anyone.

Anyway I went to Aussie to see what planting was like and to find out if it was profitable. The answer is no. Its not worth it. If your going on a working holiday visa to OZ get yourself a job at a bar, or as a contruction worker. Waiters and bartenders make over 20 bucks an hour and I hooked a contruction job in sydney that paid 27 bucks an hour for labouring. My daily avg while planting was somewhere between 80-160 bucks a day after you get raped by the tax man at 20% I believe... might be less because its land cultivation but i dont remember. Australia was awesome, planting was not. my advice go to australia try planting out for the experience and go to the reef do some scuba diving, skydive mission beach, 4x4 fraser island, sail the whitsundays islands, hike through the rainforst near cairns, go see the worlds largest monilith and party like a rock star in airlie, surfers paridise, byron, brissi and sydney. Live like a rockstar and party like a treeplanter, but aviod the planting part. I thin Nz's planting scene might be a little better and I'm going to give it a shot in january when I head that way for 4 months. Thats all I have to say... all the guys who had a positiveexperience thats great, but I did not. I cant comment on Luke because I never met him, but in my opinion Sean (the foreman) was awesome even though I think his day rate was only like 180 bucks a day or something like that. This company would get roasted as a planting company in Canada and no one would ever work for them. Thats my rant sorry im not going to edit through this.

thanks for the listen.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Here's a little banter I had with Usufruct (Johnny Cash) via private messages:

Dear Tracy,
You guys are mean spirited crooks, and should fuck off and stop posting on Canadian treeplanting sites.
Eat shit,
Mr. Amazing

And the response to this?

Dear Mr. Amazing,
My name is not Tracy. I am a real Canadian planter who just recently finished working with Usufruct. It seems that you have some deep seeded issues with them and that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion. I would tell you my real name but you seem like a pretty unstable individual and I'm afraid you would stalk me or something. Please don't send me anymore offensive messages.
Thank you,
Johnny Cash

Harden the fuck up, Johnny Cash!!!!! I've posed 6 weird questions for you to attempt to answer (seeing as you're a "... real Canadian planter") that will test your Canuckness. I think it would be hilarious if you attempted to answer them!

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:20 pm

If these stories are taken at face value, I hope no worker from any where would accept such conditions. Grrrrrrrrrr.

What I really wanted to say though (Mr. Amazing) is that anyone with Google could answer those 6 questions in a pinch. Oh, and I get it, #6 is a trick question!

Crystal Metz · Post by **Crystal Metz** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:07 pm

Are Canadians just that much better suited to the job?

Insofar as I know yes they are. In my limited international planting experience I have learned that
a)Canadians are the best treeplanters in the world
and b) No where else in the world pays planters as much as Canada

In Scotland the local planters wouldn't work in the rain, they stopped for frequent tea breaks, they planted the front of their pieces first and they quit for the day after making their sixty quid-120 dollars.
The Scottish foresters were very impressed with Canadian planters.

Flatcap forestry in Scotland is Canadian run and open to hiring but you won't make as much money as in Canada. I think Hugh prefers hiring people that are friends of people who have worked for him already-as with most companies. Also the cost of living is higher there and the weather is worse than any planting weather I have experienced. A two year visa costs about 450 dollars. Worth it? Yeah, especially since the season runs October, November and January when there isn't any work in Canada, through to March.

Ive heard planting in Aus Sucks, Ive also heard that about Costa Rica. It pretty much sucks in Scotland too. Planting abroad should be takne for the xperience, not the money....

vacationer · Post by **vacationer** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:24 pm

We need to hear about other companies in Australia, and from planters who have worked for them.

donkeyrider · Post by **donkeyrider** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:07 pm

When I was in Oz planting for usufruct I asked Sean (foreman of 10 years) what it was like at other companies. He told me that there are only really two planting companies in Australia that focus on treeplanting ;usufruct and outland. The story he told something like outland underbids all the contracts so they have more work then us and they take from the smaller companies. He seemed like he was pretty tight with some of the outland guys because he said once upon a time he worked for them and also told me he could hook me up with some contact info for them when I was on the move around the country. It sounded like similar BC battle for contracts but with less competition. The job pool in Australia for treeplanting is like 90% travelers trying to get an extension on their holiday work visa. I planted with like 20 different people and all but 2 were travelers.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:24 pm

Whenever I read their name, I read it as "you so fucked" which seems to be exactly what you are if you work for them.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:12 am

Good news! When you now Google "Usufruct Treeplanting", this thread is the 3rd option to show up! I'm going to link this thread to a whole bunch of shady blogs and forums to maybe get that down to 2nd (after the company's website). You suck Usufruct!!!!

the_dude · Post by **the_dude** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:18 pm

haha, internet guerrilla warfare

take the bastards down Mr. Amazing.

and number 6 isnt a trick question. there is one thing that every canadian loves to do when they are in Winnipeg.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:09 pm

leave?

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:13 pm

jdtesluk wrote:leave?

That's the only answer I could think of as well... sorta the same answer for Edmonton too.

3plantor · Post by **3plantor** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:29 pm

haha... where did the "real canadian treeplanter" go after mr amazing called his bluff? the very fact that he had to state that he is a "real canadian treeplanter" stinks of desperation, it's like saying ,"i'm the real santa claus!"

why did you have to be a "real canadian treeplanter"? wouldn't a "real australian treeplanters" view of the company have been just as valid?

i guess not cos aussies dont plant trees and those that do have no idea about what they're doing. it sounds like aussies like to lie around in the sun all day, harden the fuck up australia!

an aussie telling a canadian treeplanter to harden the fuck up... dont make me laugh you fool!

barnbill · Post by **barnbill** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:11 pm

haha... where did the "real canadian treeplanter" go

still trying to find an answer online for number 5.........jdtesluk gave him the answer for 6

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:05 pm

I'll give you a hint to #5

It had something to do with a whole bunch of Albertan bumper stickers that read, "Let the Eastern Bastards Freeze in the Dark!"

You may also consider the acronym: Pierre Elliot Trudeau Rips Off CANada

I don't necessarily agree with the self-serving logic behind these slogans, but I think if I send this thread tailspinning into a deeper analysis of federalism, I may be smited by lightning.

the_dude · Post by **the_dude** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:11 pm

barnbill.
the answer to # 5 is the canadian government created a policy that stole money from oil and gas revenue called the National Energy Policy. Because natural resources falls within the boundaries of provincial jurisdiction, this was constitutionally illegal, but because of the asymmetrical power and undemocratic way Ottawa operates in regards to the west, this little fact was over looked.

Another way to ask #5 is "Who is western Canada's greatest enemy"

Johnny Cash · Post by **Johnny Cash** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:15 pm

Wow. You guys are so nerdy. A quiz to test my Canuckness? Don't make me laugh. It would be hilarious if I answered your questions because it would be a total waste of my time. I really don't care if you think I'm some Australia woman named Tracy. It's actually pretty funny to me. No...I just really wanted to come on here and genuinely say that I enjoyed my Usufruct experience and must really thank them for employing me during my travels in Australia. I had the freedom to take off and travel whenever I wanted then just call them up and come back to work. It was a really cool experience and I know a lot of people who feel the same way about their time with Usufruct. There were a bunch of us that were a really tight crew and I would recommend this company to anyone as long as you remember that it's quite different from Canadian planting, but there is still plenty of opportunity to make some money and have a good time. That was really low of you whoever posted that story about Sean's personal life. As for Ms. Amazing's claim about over claim...in my experience there was very little overclaim and when there was overclaim we were evenly deducted for it. As for Sean and Luke yelling and swearing at you...I guess they just didn't like you. And I'm starting to see why that would be. If anyone is genuinely interested in planting with them feel free to send me a PM and I'll get back to you sometime, although I know everyone will be planting in Canada pretty soon. Well, Johnny Cash, signing off.

harden the f#*k up · Post by **harden the f#*k up** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:23 pm

I have been involved in forestry in Australia for 9 years now, and i would like to take this opportunity to inform about the REAL facts of australian tree planting- and no this is not "damage control" as i can assure you that no damage has been done by the comments of a small minority of disgruntled FORMER employees.

- average earnings in australia range from 150 to 350 a day. it is not uncommon for experienced planters to earn in excess of 400 dollars a day regulary.

- the equipment and techniques used in Australia are different from those used in canada, the methods used in Australia are proven to be the most effecient after decades of practice. Canadians often want to work with planting bags, this is not possible and the trays placed PROPERLY on planting belts are comfortable, light weight, and very fast, as each individual tree is easier to grab, rather than having 100 smashed and damaged trees heaped together in a planting bag. Canadians often want to work their own piece, again this not possible, the main reason being our blocks are set up so that you NEVER have to wait for trees. vehichles carrying trees (usually 10 000+) are positioned so that if you understand the spacing and lay out of the block you should always be ready to pick up when you are out of trees. Another reason is the quality, quality is a serious issue in australia given we usually work in drier soil types, therefore the trees have to be placed deep, unlike canada where it appears just below the surface is acceptable, and of course there is always the issue of 'stashing trees' which seems to be a common practice in canada, and that is FACT. i have seen web sites dedicated to stashing trees in canada, and often planters from canada brag about stashing trees. and then wonder why they are treated harshly???????

- the living conditions are very rarely 'bush camps'. accomadation (which is always provided for a small fee) is usually in a caravan bark, cabin, house on the block, or pub. but always with a roof over your head and a matress. and yes, planters are deducted wages if they break or damage facilities through uncleanliness or violent/drunk behaviour.

- the weather is usually extreme, very hot or very wet, but of course the canadians that always plant in the snow cant work in the rain because its too cold???
but due to the extreme weather often a planting day will be 6 to 8 hours. 300 dollars in 6 hours is 50 dollars an hour ( for those that cant count, and there are quite a few judging by over claim). snakes are sighted on blocks in summer but are usually gone miles before we get a chance to go near them because of the noise a convoy of vehichles and planters make.

-canadians are not the worlds best tree planters, the best workers tend to come from new zealand, they work harder, whinge less and above all plant better quality. that is in my experience ( i am australian). we often hire foreigners because there is never enough workers to fill the positions. so if you've even looked at a spade you will be hired.

So for anyone who wishes to plant in australia those are the facts. i have worked for usufruct (and others) and found them to be 'hard but very fair' if you continually complain, are incompetent or just plain useless you will not be tolerated . just like other jobs- if you turn up, 'shut up and plant', and do what your being payed to do you will make good money and enjoy yourself. we plant to make money, not friends, but usually both can be found in Australia. if its a "peace, love, berries and nuts" scene your looking for, try fruit picking for $50 a day at a back packer hostel. but having said that, australian companys dont discriminate and will hire anyone and ALWAYS give them a fair go. I have worked with approximately 1000 tree planters over time, and it is (as im sure it is anywhere) always a small minority of people who tend to whine and challenge management that leave unhappy and broke. if you spend more time planting and less time whining you will leave happy and be coming back again, as hundreds of other satisfied people have. So 'harden the fuck up' and at the end of the day, if you dont like it FUCK OFF!

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:29 pm

Seems like Usufruct double teamed this site to truly prove that they are total douchers... Yes, you can make money planting trees for Usufruct, but they're such self-sabotaging idiots that few Canadians have the stomach to put up their shitshow company. EVERY single Canadian quit the contact I worked at. There are incredible efficiencies with the Aussie style of planting, but they're largely untransferable to Canada. Jason is a bully, and his "fuck 'em" attitude is adopted with joy by his Aussie henchmen. He also is quite smart and likable, it's weird...

So it seems like Usufruct's feeling are hurt, so here's an idea: Stick to advertising in 'Backpackers' magazines, and fuck off when it comes to trying to lure Canadians to plant your shitty little trees.

Why are you guys even posting here? This is a site for people to discuss treeplanting in Western Canada.

Sincerely,
Mr. Amazing

p.s. Eat shit and die Usufruct!!!!!!!

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:48 pm

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-en ... /tpod.html

International Usufruct Haters Unite!

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:05 pm

websites devoted to stashing? that is a claim you just cant make on this board. the internet planting nerds, myself included, that constitute the regulars on this site would definitely know about this by now. if it were true.

Mr. Amazing · Post by **Mr. Amazing** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:01 pm

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-en ... /tpod.html

Here's a little snippet from a total outsiders perspective of working for Usufruct. It's great, it shows how a worker got FIRED for wanting to see the first-aid attendant after getting run over by a quad (which broke a few ribs)...

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:24 am

but of course the canadians that always plant in the snow cant work in the rain because its too cold???

Hey "harden," perhaps you forgot to take physics or chemistry in high school? Or didn't get there yet?

At temperatures close to zero Celsius (on either side), rain is considerably "colder" than snow, albeit in "effect," not in absolute temperature. The reason is because water has a very high specific heat. This means that water running over a person's body can not only warm it very quickly, if the water is warmer than skin/body temperature, but it also means that it can also cool it very quickly, if the water is cooler than body temp. I won't bother getting into the specific number of kilojoules per Kg associated with water (I think around 4.1865 at room temperature and one atmosphere pressure, but I might be mistaken, since it's been a few years since I actually learned this basic concept in chemistry). However, any simple science student could expand on this. Anyway, think of sweat: the evaporation of "water" (actually, it's closer to a weak concentration of uric acid than it is to just "water" as most people envision it) from your skin is what cools you down. So cold water from a cold rain does the same thing - it cools you down, although this is due to run-off heat transfer, not from evaporation.

The thing with snow is that it doesn't really "run off" that much. Hopefully, not much of it melts, because a layer of unmelted snow is fairly insulating. And that portion of the snow which does melt will work against you because of the previous paragraph (but hopefully you're wearing clothing with insulated layers that ensure your body heat does not melt the snow - snow that "sticks" to a winter jacket is actually a sign that the jacket might have good insulating properties, rather than one which allows the snow to melt due to the heat of your body).

Anyway, this is probably way over your head, but you are incorrect: rain is not "too cold" for Canadians, because it doesn't have a lower temperature. However, unless it is a warm rain, the rain ultimately cools your body down faster than snow, and makes you feel colder.

Live and learn.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:38 am

Johny Cash is obviously not Canadian, and the foreman that posted is obviously one of these guys that thinks he's doing everyone a favour by hiring them and is idealizing his company. I've seen it in just about every shitty company in this country, they always manage to make the worst working environments sound acceptable to the uninitiated. I believe it might be efficient for that land, every single piecework company I've ever worked for feels like they've maxed out efficiency. But top Canadian planting companies are the best at this when it comes to groups of people making money while also retaining vets, people are happy (well not everybody as it is still hard labour) and once you've seen that it's tough to work for a bunch of meatheads such as this one particular Aussie company. I know I could make money with them but if I want terrible work I could do better in Fort Mac over the winter and then travel to Australia on vacation a few weeks and just enjoy the good parts.