Hello Everyone;
Here is a link to the new Pesticide and Fertilizer Exposure Reduction Guide for tree planters
http://www.wsca.ca/Media/Multimedia/Pes ... mphlet.pdf
It is a double sided pamphlet, designed to folded 3 ways. This pamphlet is based on the fertilzer and pesticide research that was conducted over the last two seasons. It has some guidelines for glove selection, and some links to further information. You may note that it indicates 4 different choices for acceptable gloves. It suggests there may be other choices for gloves, but they must possess the same qualities as the recommended gloves. There are also important tips on personal hygiene and laundry. Even after 15 years of planting, I found some good information in these recommendations.
Keep in mind, that this is largely aimed at new planters to help them get off on the right foot. However, it is also aimed at experienced workers, and we hope that it will help break some bad habits and lead to better practices. I realize that gloves are very much a personal preference when it comes to choosing the right glove, thus 4 very different models have been recommended. There may be other glove choices out there, and this guide also aims to help people identify what makes a suitable glove for our job.
This pamphlet was produced by the BC Safe Silviculture Project, FP Innovations FERIC Western Region (A non-profit forestry research company), the Western Silvicultural Contractors Association, and the UBC School of Environmental Health. The contents have been guided by planters, and reviewed by all the mentioned agencies. I will be posting a link to a summary of the original research in another thread, so that workers can better orient themselves with the specific findings that led to these recommendations.
You will note that this information is aimed at employers and employees alike, and makes reference to their respective roles in maintaining a safe and healthy workplace. Copies of this pamphlet (and the corresponding research summary) will be sent to all WSCA member companies on the mailing list, and to industry equipment suppliers.
I hope you find this information useful. I also expect that the workforce may come up with new innovations in hygiene and PPE that will add to the recommendations provided.
Best regards, Green Side Up!
Glove Guide for planting
Re: Glove Guide for planting
jdtesluk, you're pro in my books, but that pamphlet is a crock of shit.
They want you to use either a Neoprene glove or Dish +Surgical, Rubber + Surgical or Gardening + surgical?
Planting with surgical gloves will cause MAJOR hygiene and heat issues - especially if you're a sweater or it's super hot - Not to mention the fact that feeling a tree would be borderline impossible and you'd be changing gloves all day.
If I was forced to wear those, I'd quit treeplanting (again) and go find another job.
I can agree with the duct tape being unacceptable, but how the hell are you going to get pesticide exposure through a plastic dish glove?
I love reading what the "Health" people expect people to do. Sometimes it's so absurd it's laughable.
They want you to use either a Neoprene glove or Dish +Surgical, Rubber + Surgical or Gardening + surgical?
Planting with surgical gloves will cause MAJOR hygiene and heat issues - especially if you're a sweater or it's super hot - Not to mention the fact that feeling a tree would be borderline impossible and you'd be changing gloves all day.
If I was forced to wear those, I'd quit treeplanting (again) and go find another job.
I can agree with the duct tape being unacceptable, but how the hell are you going to get pesticide exposure through a plastic dish glove?
I love reading what the "Health" people expect people to do. Sometimes it's so absurd it's laughable.
Re: Glove Guide for planting
Thanks for the constructive criticism,.
You obviously spent too much time on your 4-20 break to read the information properly. You should read something thoroughly before judging it as a crock. BUt that's okay. Everyone gets a free pass on April 20th.
Neoprene is a recommended material for chemical resistance, but none of the actually recommended gloves are made of neoprene as it is simply not sensitive enough to use for planting (same goes for butyl rubber). If anyone has good experiences with neoprene, I'd be keen to hear about it, but I have yet to see a godd neoprene planting glove. NITRILE is the material of choice, as it offers good protection, and sensitivity (sounds like a condom add).
Only 2 of the 4 recommended glove types recommend the inner SURGICAL-STYLE nitrile liner. Note, not surgical, but surgical-style. This is a descriptive, but the glove has mutliple applications apart from surgery. Lots of planters use these inner liner gloves as a chemical barrier, and change them frequently. If you have extremely sweaty hands, might not work for you. I am among the lucky relatively sweatless (and less smelly and less hairy) people that finds this glove to work just fine. I used these for my last 3 seasons, had no issues.
Style #1 is NOT a dishwashing glove. It looks like one, but it is not for dishwashing. Dishwashing gloves are often made of latex, which is unsuitable for a chemical barrier. Do not go buyuing dishwashing gloves from Safeway and think they're good enough. Style #1 also does not require an inner surgical style liner. It actually uses a fabric inner liner to absorb sweat. This is one of the older glove styles used out there, and is popular for offering the ability to utilize different liners for different conditions.
Style #2, which few people have used, also does not use an surgical liner. It is a bit stiffer, and takes some getting used to, but offers superior protection.
I have used all 4 of the recommended styles, and had no problems getting used to the sensitivity for touching the seedlings. It took a few days to get it totally down, but I never went back, and continued to get faster even after adopting the new gloves. People sometimes don't like change and find it inconvenient, but sometimes change is for the best. THe other positive aspect of the more protective glove is better protection and the ability to jam your fingers into the hole (insert wise-ass joke here) without hurting your fingers or getting stuff jammed under your nails. I actually adapted my tree-hand planting style based on more protective gloves so that I "shoot" my fingers to the bottom of the hole with the tip of the plug. No j-roots, and a more decisive insertion, resutling in what I felt was more efficient movement. I'm not the fastest planter to have ever strapped on the bags, but I'm a regular 3K+ person in decent interior ground, and my most recent year was my fastest ever. Using proper gloves didn't hold me back, and I had prettier fingers than David Duchovny.
You obviously spent too much time on your 4-20 break to read the information properly. You should read something thoroughly before judging it as a crock. BUt that's okay. Everyone gets a free pass on April 20th.
Neoprene is a recommended material for chemical resistance, but none of the actually recommended gloves are made of neoprene as it is simply not sensitive enough to use for planting (same goes for butyl rubber). If anyone has good experiences with neoprene, I'd be keen to hear about it, but I have yet to see a godd neoprene planting glove. NITRILE is the material of choice, as it offers good protection, and sensitivity (sounds like a condom add).
Only 2 of the 4 recommended glove types recommend the inner SURGICAL-STYLE nitrile liner. Note, not surgical, but surgical-style. This is a descriptive, but the glove has mutliple applications apart from surgery. Lots of planters use these inner liner gloves as a chemical barrier, and change them frequently. If you have extremely sweaty hands, might not work for you. I am among the lucky relatively sweatless (and less smelly and less hairy) people that finds this glove to work just fine. I used these for my last 3 seasons, had no issues.
Style #1 is NOT a dishwashing glove. It looks like one, but it is not for dishwashing. Dishwashing gloves are often made of latex, which is unsuitable for a chemical barrier. Do not go buyuing dishwashing gloves from Safeway and think they're good enough. Style #1 also does not require an inner surgical style liner. It actually uses a fabric inner liner to absorb sweat. This is one of the older glove styles used out there, and is popular for offering the ability to utilize different liners for different conditions.
Style #2, which few people have used, also does not use an surgical liner. It is a bit stiffer, and takes some getting used to, but offers superior protection.
I have used all 4 of the recommended styles, and had no problems getting used to the sensitivity for touching the seedlings. It took a few days to get it totally down, but I never went back, and continued to get faster even after adopting the new gloves. People sometimes don't like change and find it inconvenient, but sometimes change is for the best. THe other positive aspect of the more protective glove is better protection and the ability to jam your fingers into the hole (insert wise-ass joke here) without hurting your fingers or getting stuff jammed under your nails. I actually adapted my tree-hand planting style based on more protective gloves so that I "shoot" my fingers to the bottom of the hole with the tip of the plug. No j-roots, and a more decisive insertion, resutling in what I felt was more efficient movement. I'm not the fastest planter to have ever strapped on the bags, but I'm a regular 3K+ person in decent interior ground, and my most recent year was my fastest ever. Using proper gloves didn't hold me back, and I had prettier fingers than David Duchovny.
This is a pretty weak comment. I fully anticipate that there will be some people with lots of cynicism, but nothing actually valuable to offer. Myself, and many other people in the industry who are not just "health" people but well informed vets, have devoted considerable volunteer time to this project to provide workers with good guidelines to help protect themselves. If you want to comment, perhaps some informative points about methods or tools you have used would be nice.Haugen wrote:
I love reading what the "Health" people expect people to do. Sometimes it's so absurd it's laughable.
Re: Glove Guide for planting
I will give some less retarded comments now that some of my side effects have worn off.
I too have used all of these methods (attempted using "surgical-style" gloves my first year for awhile underneath) and apart from duct tape and bare handing (and the gardening mesh glove, but I still can't figure out why anyone would use that) they all contain the obvious flaw - If you are planting agressively enough to puncture your skin on a regular basis, you're planting agressively enough to puncture any of those glove combinations giving direct exposure through cuts (which is much worse than exposure to your skin I would imagine).
The Neoprene glove (whether or not it's Neoprene isn't really my point, it's incredibly thick and solid - not a good planting glove) I've never seen used.
My post was definately harsh, and I apologize. But to be honest, it doesn't really give any information that isn't on the side of the boxes, or in a MSDS sheet.
What would be cool information to have on there (IE: something I would have read had you handed it to me when I was planting) would be some information on common pesticides, fertilizers, etc and what side effects we can pin down on them (maybe a laymans version of some of the information acquired through all those fertilizer and pesticide guinea pig trails we put ourselves through?). I didn't know until my 3rd or 4th year exactly what the hell was on the trees (went and read the MSDS sheets after I got bored with the WCB regs on days off) and what they actually did, when they were put on, what effects on me they may have.
There was tons of information I wish I knew when I planted, (Including and most importantly EXACTLY what my rights as an employee were under WCB) that I never knew until I went and looked hard on my own and found it. This is probably what I consider the shadiest part of treeplanting - the lack of information. Your pamphlet is very good information for someone who's just coming into the industry, but I think most of these issues (apart from a comprehensive glove debate) are pumped into planters in the first week or so, or are largely ignored (like handwashing).
That was the section I found most interesting, and I'm really curious. How many people actually wash their hands on the block regularly? I can think of a number of times when it was simply not possible due to lack of water/heat (usually). I always got drilled the "wash your hands on the block", but I don't ever remember Scooter bringing me the sink and water to do it with
jdtesluk once again sorry for the harsh post, tried to make up for it with some actual constructive criticism.
I too have used all of these methods (attempted using "surgical-style" gloves my first year for awhile underneath) and apart from duct tape and bare handing (and the gardening mesh glove, but I still can't figure out why anyone would use that) they all contain the obvious flaw - If you are planting agressively enough to puncture your skin on a regular basis, you're planting agressively enough to puncture any of those glove combinations giving direct exposure through cuts (which is much worse than exposure to your skin I would imagine).
The Neoprene glove (whether or not it's Neoprene isn't really my point, it's incredibly thick and solid - not a good planting glove) I've never seen used.
My post was definately harsh, and I apologize. But to be honest, it doesn't really give any information that isn't on the side of the boxes, or in a MSDS sheet.
What would be cool information to have on there (IE: something I would have read had you handed it to me when I was planting) would be some information on common pesticides, fertilizers, etc and what side effects we can pin down on them (maybe a laymans version of some of the information acquired through all those fertilizer and pesticide guinea pig trails we put ourselves through?). I didn't know until my 3rd or 4th year exactly what the hell was on the trees (went and read the MSDS sheets after I got bored with the WCB regs on days off) and what they actually did, when they were put on, what effects on me they may have.
There was tons of information I wish I knew when I planted, (Including and most importantly EXACTLY what my rights as an employee were under WCB) that I never knew until I went and looked hard on my own and found it. This is probably what I consider the shadiest part of treeplanting - the lack of information. Your pamphlet is very good information for someone who's just coming into the industry, but I think most of these issues (apart from a comprehensive glove debate) are pumped into planters in the first week or so, or are largely ignored (like handwashing).
That was the section I found most interesting, and I'm really curious. How many people actually wash their hands on the block regularly? I can think of a number of times when it was simply not possible due to lack of water/heat (usually). I always got drilled the "wash your hands on the block", but I don't ever remember Scooter bringing me the sink and water to do it with
jdtesluk once again sorry for the harsh post, tried to make up for it with some actual constructive criticism.
Re: Glove Guide for planting
Thanks for the good input Haugen, I came off a bit harsh in reply, but I'm always trying to challenge people towards positive action.
You wrote
What would be cool information to have on there (IE: something I would have read had you handed it to me when I was planting) would be some information on common pesticides, fertilizers, etc and what side effects we can pin down on them (maybe a laymans version of some of the information acquired through all those fertilizer and pesticide guinea pig trails we put ourselves through?).
Good querry, and an important issue. In regards, to this, it is very difficult to identify the side effects of chemicals when exposure levels are so low. As the research found (see pamphlet for a link) the actual exposre levels among planters are far below acceptable levels by several factors (in other words extremely extremely low). Verified side effects are generally based on extremely high levels of exposure. That is what MSDS are based on. It would be incorrect to assume that the risks posed by extremely low levels of exposure over time are the same (but on a smaller scale) as the risks of high levels of exposure over a short time. THIS IS KEY. Ultimately, the methodological challenges of properly executing such research (long term, low exposure) are simply confounded by too many uncontrollable variables. You need to account for environmental factors, lifestyle, genetics, diet, stress, socioeconomic status and the list goes on. Often the results of such research yield such miniscule findings, that it is generally impossible to reach reliable conclusions in regards to such exposre. Therefore, our precautions are based on reducing exposure wherever possible through immediate and practical means and encouraging people to reduce their already "low" levels of exposure even further. This way we know we are achieving something, and reducing the chance that workers end up as the guinea pigs. Once we can genetically engineer rodents that live 40 years or longer, we will reach a whole new era in animal-based testing for longterm effects of chemical exposure. As an animal lover I don't even want to contemplate the ethical implications of that one.
For further information, I would recommend referring to the research summary, contained in the thread under Gossip, Rumours etc.... There is some information about the fertilizers and pesticides, but again remember the "side effects" are based on high exposure.
I think employers should be more active in getting the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) out there for planter reference. However, again one must be sure to interpret the information accurately in regards to the actual level of exposure they are dealing with. I usually he3ad straight for the mutagenic, carcinogenic, and teratogenic effects. If there is anything there at all, I execute the highest level of caution in handling the materials. Ultimately, most people in our line of work are in too much of a rush to read the MSDS, but occasionally there is some good information there.
I have recommended that the WSCA send the pamphlets and the research summary to every contractor on their mailing list, so that it can be distributed in the workplace. Those who read the pamphlet and want more info, may refer to the research summary. Those who read the research summary and want more info, may refer to the thesis in its entirety. Those who read the thesis and want more info, may follow up on items in the thesis bibliography. That would be the chain I would follow.
IN regard to your rights as an employee, all workers have the right to be informed of all known or forseeable hazards in their workplace, this includes chemicals. People generally focus on the right to refuse unsafe work, but the right to know what is actually safe and unsafe is really primary to that. Anyways, the tone of the research summary was aimed squarely at employers, to prompt their awareness of their obligation to properly inform their workers. It's push-pull process- workers need to demand more info, employers need to provide it.
In regards to the hand washing, I have been using the small bottle of water method for several years. I basically hold the bottle between my knees and pour it out over my hands. Especially at the end of the day, I love getting in the truck all sparkly and pretending that I never really broke a sweat. I used a big camp water bottle with a on/off spigot, for a few shifts (until I broke it), and found it worked great, especially for rinsing. I simply took about 1-2 litres more than I need for drinking, and usually had a bit to spare. I also use creeks and rivulets when available, but of course those can be few and far between in some contracts, and its hard to plan your cache location around water supplies.
ANyways, I think this is off on a better angle now, sorry to snap a bit myself there, and I greatly appreciate your ongoing commentary!
You wrote
What would be cool information to have on there (IE: something I would have read had you handed it to me when I was planting) would be some information on common pesticides, fertilizers, etc and what side effects we can pin down on them (maybe a laymans version of some of the information acquired through all those fertilizer and pesticide guinea pig trails we put ourselves through?).
Good querry, and an important issue. In regards, to this, it is very difficult to identify the side effects of chemicals when exposure levels are so low. As the research found (see pamphlet for a link) the actual exposre levels among planters are far below acceptable levels by several factors (in other words extremely extremely low). Verified side effects are generally based on extremely high levels of exposure. That is what MSDS are based on. It would be incorrect to assume that the risks posed by extremely low levels of exposure over time are the same (but on a smaller scale) as the risks of high levels of exposure over a short time. THIS IS KEY. Ultimately, the methodological challenges of properly executing such research (long term, low exposure) are simply confounded by too many uncontrollable variables. You need to account for environmental factors, lifestyle, genetics, diet, stress, socioeconomic status and the list goes on. Often the results of such research yield such miniscule findings, that it is generally impossible to reach reliable conclusions in regards to such exposre. Therefore, our precautions are based on reducing exposure wherever possible through immediate and practical means and encouraging people to reduce their already "low" levels of exposure even further. This way we know we are achieving something, and reducing the chance that workers end up as the guinea pigs. Once we can genetically engineer rodents that live 40 years or longer, we will reach a whole new era in animal-based testing for longterm effects of chemical exposure. As an animal lover I don't even want to contemplate the ethical implications of that one.
For further information, I would recommend referring to the research summary, contained in the thread under Gossip, Rumours etc.... There is some information about the fertilizers and pesticides, but again remember the "side effects" are based on high exposure.
I think employers should be more active in getting the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) out there for planter reference. However, again one must be sure to interpret the information accurately in regards to the actual level of exposure they are dealing with. I usually he3ad straight for the mutagenic, carcinogenic, and teratogenic effects. If there is anything there at all, I execute the highest level of caution in handling the materials. Ultimately, most people in our line of work are in too much of a rush to read the MSDS, but occasionally there is some good information there.
I have recommended that the WSCA send the pamphlets and the research summary to every contractor on their mailing list, so that it can be distributed in the workplace. Those who read the pamphlet and want more info, may refer to the research summary. Those who read the research summary and want more info, may refer to the thesis in its entirety. Those who read the thesis and want more info, may follow up on items in the thesis bibliography. That would be the chain I would follow.
IN regard to your rights as an employee, all workers have the right to be informed of all known or forseeable hazards in their workplace, this includes chemicals. People generally focus on the right to refuse unsafe work, but the right to know what is actually safe and unsafe is really primary to that. Anyways, the tone of the research summary was aimed squarely at employers, to prompt their awareness of their obligation to properly inform their workers. It's push-pull process- workers need to demand more info, employers need to provide it.
In regards to the hand washing, I have been using the small bottle of water method for several years. I basically hold the bottle between my knees and pour it out over my hands. Especially at the end of the day, I love getting in the truck all sparkly and pretending that I never really broke a sweat. I used a big camp water bottle with a on/off spigot, for a few shifts (until I broke it), and found it worked great, especially for rinsing. I simply took about 1-2 litres more than I need for drinking, and usually had a bit to spare. I also use creeks and rivulets when available, but of course those can be few and far between in some contracts, and its hard to plan your cache location around water supplies.
ANyways, I think this is off on a better angle now, sorry to snap a bit myself there, and I greatly appreciate your ongoing commentary!
Re: Glove Guide for planting
You can help make your gloves last longer by keeping your nails trimmed. This makes them less likely to push through the tips of the glove, THis is especially important if you are using the "Dishwashing-style" gloves (Style #1)
Re: Glove Guide for planting
http://www.ansellpro.com/hyflex/11-518.asp
Has anyone tried these gloves from Ansell Hyflex?
Judging by their website, they seem to put a lot of effort into rating the durability and flexibility of their gloves.
Some models also seem to be made tough materials (Kevlar and Dyneema) that may stand up well in the treeplanting environment.
Has anyone tried these gloves from Ansell Hyflex?
Judging by their website, they seem to put a lot of effort into rating the durability and flexibility of their gloves.
Some models also seem to be made tough materials (Kevlar and Dyneema) that may stand up well in the treeplanting environment.
-
Scooter
- Site Administrator
- Posts: 4517
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:34 pm
- Location: New Brunswick
- Contact:
Re: Glove Guide for planting
Whoa, that's a lot of variety for some pretty specific industrial uses. They aren't messing around.
Free download of "Step By Step" training book: www.replant.ca/digitaldownloads
Personal Email: jonathan.scooter.clark@gmail.com
Sponsor Tree Planting: www.replant-environmental.ca
(to build community forests, not to be turned into 2x4's and toilet paper)
Personal Email: jonathan.scooter.clark@gmail.com
Sponsor Tree Planting: www.replant-environmental.ca
(to build community forests, not to be turned into 2x4's and toilet paper)
Re: Glove Guide for planting
Often the downfall of gloves like this is the inability to manage dirt. Dirt acts an abrasive, as the small particles embed in the fabric, and the friction of movement causes the fabric to wear. This is why washing clothes helps them last, by removing the particles that act as sandpaper between the fibers.
If you're curious, do as I did and write the supplier and ask for a test pair. I recently acquired a half dozen sets of gloves that I am going to pawn out to some planters for beta-testing in 2015. I wrote the company, explained my role in industry, and asked for a sample. Boom. box showed up at my door.
These still look worth trying. Give them a shot.
If you're curious, do as I did and write the supplier and ask for a test pair. I recently acquired a half dozen sets of gloves that I am going to pawn out to some planters for beta-testing in 2015. I wrote the company, explained my role in industry, and asked for a sample. Boom. box showed up at my door.
These still look worth trying. Give them a shot.