Legacy (formerly The Planting Company)

[Marty]

This company predominantly work in British Columbia/Alberta/Manitoba.

[Dr Adder]

Uhh...Didn't Jim Ilott used to be Shuswap, why the name change?

[Justin from N'Sync]

hey i worked for mark illot in ontario.

[Beerdude]

Good company for musicians / jammers. Or those who like listening. There'll be a whole band there this year planting (my band), maybe there'll be some local shows on days off. Expect a variety of instruments to be there as well besides your usual planting camp of bongos and guitars (mandolin, vibraphone, clarinet, trumpet, saxophone, etc...)

[Slash Monkey]

Good company for musicians / jammers. Or those who like listening. There'll be a whole band there this year planting (my band), maybe there'll be some local shows on days off. Expect a variety of instruments to be there as well besides your usual planting camp of bongos and guitars (mandolin, vibraphone, clarinet, trumpet, saxophone, etc...)

that sounds like a sweet scene to be in beerdude. i can't believe you bring a whole set of vibes out to the bush, that's wicked.

i'm also a musician (from montreal) i emailed your foreman james about hopefully getting on with you guys for the summer show. what kind of prices were you guys getting last year? were the highballers doing 400 dollar days?

[treeskipper]

i work for tpc last summer, witch was my third year after a four year break. good food, two cooks for 35 planters. the trucks were all new, mostly worked four and ones. a couple 5 and ones. i made treerunner half way through, a bit of hard access but no death marches to the block. the formen were very helpfull, including a 10+ year senior formen (martial). i lookforward to, and expect to, go back with them this summer.

[the lion]

Do you smoke crack!!! Didn' t you notice that you may have been one of the few vets working for TPC.There is a reason for this and the initals are TM. Back in the day this was a good company to work for, but poor management and lack of respect for the planters has left this company in shambles. You may find yourself working for Jim's brother this year because TPC is no more.
For Scooter's sake, on a positive they have new trucks.

[Nate]

Do you smoke crack!!! Didn' t you notice that you may have been one of the few vets working for TPC.There is a reason for this and the initals are TM. Back in the day this was a good company to work for, but poor management and lack of respect for the planters has left this company in shambles. You may find yourself working for Jim's brother this year because TPC is no more.
For Scooter's sake, on a positive they have new trucks.

Scooter isn't championing positive reviews for shitty companies (I'm not commenting either way on TPC by that statement by the way, I know nothing about the company), he's asking for fair and balanced criticism/praise of companies.

I'm glad they have new trucks, however. I like new trucks. So shiny. Smells so nice. CD Players work for two weeks before you're required to karate chop the dashboard each time you insert a CD.

Anyone happen to know if this company is "no more" though?

[Mike]

i made treerunner half way through

I still have Orhan Pamuk's Snow. You have my e-mail.

You may find yourself working for Jim's brother this year because TPC is no more.

Last summer, the summer trees that The Planting Company had in Fort Saint John BC got transferred to Dorsey Contracting. Dorsey is managed by the brother of the owner of The Planting Company. There were rumours being passed around about Jim (owner of TPC) calling it quits, but I did get a message from his son (one of the Foremen) a few weeks ago asking me if I was planting this summer, which would imply that TPC will still be around...but it's anyones guess.

I planted with The Planting Company last year, and had some good times, and some bad times. As a rookie planter, I'm thankful that I got the opportunity to learn how to plant and make some cash. The company had some terrific foremen that were absolutely amazing. The cooks did a wonderful job. Camp cost was 26.50$, 27.50$ for a 5 day break in Rocky Mountain House, and 25.00 with Dorsey in Fort Saint John.
Company Equipment (Shovel, Bags, Whistle, Plot Cord) was 131.74$

Tree price varied from 0.10 cents (Rocky Mountain House contract), 11 cents (all of White Court/Swan Hills) with 10 cent trenches, and 13 cent fill.
In Fort Saint John, tree price varied day to day from 11 cents to ~18 cents (some higher prices were given to crews working really bad fill blocks; I never saw any of them). Land varied significantly in Swan Hills/White Court, but tree prices didn't. There was a block where I felt bad for getting 13 cents fill, since it was trenched and absolutely clean. There was a block that I wouldn't go back to for 20 cents fill; waist high grass, rough terrain, and significant portions of the block at water level. Equally, there were blocks where 11 cents seemed like a terrific price, and some where it seemed a little too low. Our manager said that tree prices were under the mills control.

The Camp was mostly rookies (I believe we had 36 planters at the start, 8 vets, if you include a maritime planter with 3 years of dibble work). We later picked up a few more vets (but lost some of our vets prior to that).
The Camp was mostly guys, with an initial ratio of 9:36 and a proportional rate of attrition.
Many of the blocks were quite close to camp in the Whitecourt/Swan Hills contract, and walk-ins of any length were rare (longest was 3/4ths a KM?) I can remember mornings where my first tree went in at 7:30 and my last went in at 5:30, and a start after 8:00 was a late start.

In the first 21 days, (the initial Whitecourt/Swan Hills contract), it rained 11 times. 13, if you were on other blocks (Alberta weather is lovely)

The Rocky Mountain House contract (at 10 cents) was an hour and a bit drive, followed by a fairly significant walk in. Due to how long the block was (intial pieces started at maybe 2.5 kilometers; the furthest were closer to 4, perhaps?), there was some minor downtime waiting for trees. Apparently it was more substantial at the back, as I heard one of the faster planters getting fairly upset about waiting for trees.

There was a little downtime at the End of the Rocky Mountain House contract; 4 days. After that, we returned to Swan Hills/Whitecourt for 6.5 more days clean up.

We planted with Dorsey for 2 days out of Fox Creek, then had 10 days off. [TPC has had gaps between spring and summer trees in the last few years, I'm not sure about Dorsey, but they did have this gap this year].

Crew dwindled from 36-13 in the first 30 days.

Trees came in boxes of 225/210 Spruce, 270 Pine, 460 pine. Some rare boxes of 300 pine if I recall correctly. The Fort Saint John Contract with Dorsey was mostly 180's, though there were some boxes of 270.

TPC camps had no internet, 1 power back that inevitably was jammed full of MP3 players and cell-phones.
Unloading Reefer's was unpaid with The Planting Company, sometimes paid with Dorsey (usually; if the full crew did it, unpaid, if a smaller crew did it, paid.)

There were 2 shower stalls.

Worked: 4 on, 1 off, 4 on, 1 off, 4 on, 2 off, 4 on, 1 off, 2, 1 off, day spent moving to Rocky Mountain House, 5 on, 3 off, day spent moving back to Swan Hills/Whitecourt; 4 on, 1 off, 2 on. (Finished and 3 pm that day)
Moved that evening to Dorsey camp in Fox Creek
2 on, 10 off.

Dorsey in Fort Saint John was 4 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 4 on, 1 off.

The Dorsey contract was riddled with long drives (45 minutes to 2 hours), long walk ins (longest was 5.5 kilometers, but many were 2-3 kilometers). Tree price was often increased 1 cent to compensate. The entire Fort Saint John contract was mounds. Not sure the "name", but they were about 1-2 feet deep, flipped up land, and the clay had sun-baked hard, so you could shatter them and then just move some of the crumpled "soil" around the tree. It seemed very dry land to be putting trees in, though. The 3 Planting Company foremen worked for Dorsey in this period, with one of the Dorsey foremen staying on.

[I kept a journal; some day years from now I might write out the whole story.]

[Scooter]

Mike, thanks for posting this. I wish that everyones' reviews of companies were this detailed and thorough ..

[Mike]

I forgot to mention tree density.

Whitecourt/Swan hills was all 8-10 in a plot (no idea what that is in a hectare), though there may have been a block or two of 7-9
Rocky Mountain House was 7-9 the first few days, then 6-8, then half density (4-5).
Fort Saint John was mounds, density wasn't a concern.

[Marty]

I love it mike!

All true.

I foremaned Mike all summer. He did keep a journal the whole summer. I tried to get some stories out of him good or bad, lots of bad ones i hoped, but he would'nt. One day i hope. A full season's journal from a rookie, That would be awesome!

Mike went from ' i don't know if he'll make it ' to ' one of the best from that summer '. His attention, drive and patience was awesome.

keep rockin' that clarinet and the monkey monster song. ... yes mike has a medievil-like monkey monster henchman song that he sings for some princess that he lost his love for....... so i think anyway.

[dishes]

Hey guys, I am new here but think this is a great way to get information.
I joined The planting company last year at the end of May. Things were pretty decernt, they had full shifts and full days, no down time. I left Brinkman because they had more days off than on.
Planting company had good prices for Alberta and fast ground, some rookies had trouble with straight plant, but i ate it up. Foreman were top notch, not like Brinkman. This was my third year of planting and i was in the top 5 highballers, they had 2 french guys that were unbelievable.
I had no issues with managemint, they ran a pretty good show, camp was good and the nights off rocked! I have definatley been in worse camps.
I am going back this year with 2 other guys, so i guess that answers the question if they are still around.
This year is going to be a motel show, which I like, long showers and dry bed. They might not be perfect, but I made good money there, and plaan to clean up this year. I don’t mind being a big fish in a small pond, more trees for me!

[krahn]

just curious, is leo still spending his summers with you guys?

[Mike]

There was a guy who showed up for one day, then drove off. His name might have been Leo. Aside from that, I don't think so.

And the song that Marty mentioned was "Skullcrusher Mountain" by Jonathan Coultan.

As for the journal, a symbollic burning is tempting, but my guess is sometime after I'm done tree-planting (if that ever happens) years from now I'll type it all up and post it somewhere.

[dishes]

A buddy of mine worked with Leo when he was Olson Ventures. FRom what I hear, he has settled down, had a baby and retired from palanting.

[Haugen]

Leo planted for Folklore this year until June, Good guy, glad to have planted with him.. Went home to be with his newborn and wife (Good call).

[krahn]

folklore, really? same leo? last i talked with him he was saving up for his own company, i assume he'll accomplish this.

[Haugen]

folklore, really? same leo? last i talked with him he was saving up for his own company, i assume he'll accomplish this.

He was indeed workign towards that goal when I was with him, talkign about putting in a bid this season on a small job and working his way up from there.

With the downturn in the industry, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get his job though.

A guy I would totally work for.

[Mike]

I believe this company is no longer working.

[Mike]

I was mistaken in my last post: TPC still works in some form, with Dorsey Contracting. More details will follow.

[Mike]

I'd put part of this in the Dorsey company thread, but I believe they got removed when it was pointed out that they won't be planting next season.


The Planting Company/Dorsey, 2010.

After planting with ELF (see the ELF thread) I called a few companies and eventually called Dorsey (who I planted with in the end of my first year in Fort Saint John). I ended up talking to Trevor Molinski, and I bussed to Whitecourt Alberta 2 days later, walking into a tree-planting camp with familiar faces for the first time.


Dorsey section:
I started with Dorsey June 17th. We were camped at Whitecourt behind one of the hotels. We were cooking for ourselves; they had a couple fridges and a barbeque, but they had also arranged a deal with the restaurant next to the hotel to do a planter buffet style dinner for 14$ dollars, so I did that. Camp costs were 15$ for tents, and I think hotel rooms went 25$/day if you split them 3 ways, which a few people did. With do it yourself breakfast/lunch I was probably spending ~35$/day on food + camp cost.

Shift 1: June 17th-19th, Day off (3 days)
Shift 2: June 21st-23rd, Day off (3 days)
Shift 3: June 25th-29th, 2 days off (1+ camp move); most of Dorsey goes home, but a few people stick around for a The Planting Company Summer plant. (5 days).

Prices for these 11 days were quite good; maybe slightly worse than ELF's some days, slightly better other days. We had 11 cent roads and burns (which were invariably good), decent 11 cent straight plant, 12 cent trenches at half density which were very clean and easy to make money on (I think the entire crew did 300$+ there)...but then we also had 15 cent Chemical Circles (arsenault patches) at a density of 1 or 2, so crew earnings swung wildly some days. Quality was pretty standard; a little tougher than ELF on what counted as plantable medium, but generally nothing that ever required abrupt shifts in planting styles.

There was a fair bit of lost time with Dorsey; despite meeting at the trucks at 7:00, we'd generally leave between 7:15 and 7:40. Some mornings we'd load trees from a reefer or a tarped area. Drives were generally 30 minutes to 1 hour. The morning after a day off we fueled the trucks on the way to the block. Blocks usually hadn't been set up, so planting usually begun between 8:30 and 9:30 AM, depending on the day. We'd usually finish between 5:00 and 6:00 PM, but depending on when the person at the back started walking out, we sometimes ended up waiting. Generally got to camp between 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM. Sometimes we'd close out a block and then have to break down garbage boxes, pack up gear, load quads onto trailers, etcetera. Which is no big deal, except a couple times we were loading and unloading quads on blocks that were road access, which was occasionally strange (perhaps they're more fuel efficient than using the trucks?). Had to wait for trees about 3 times in 11 days, usually 10-15 minutes. There were another 4-5 times where my cache would be emptied but I could get trees from an adjacent cache, which isn't that big a deal.

The foremen were three third year planters (Eric, Stephen [a rookie I started with at TPC 2 years back] and Adrian) and and a 10 year vet (foremaning 8 of them) named Jamie who had worked mostly with The Planting Company, and Trevor Molinski also often ran crews, or trees, or blocks, depending on what was needed (as well as doing much of the behind the scenes work with Mark and setting up the summer plant).

While I was there, people were getting tired; it was the end of the Dorsey season (they started their Alberta plant at 26 days, and had got 37 days by the end of this 11 day period). Also, the time issues I mentioned above were attributed to the mill, which apparently was giving Dorsey a hard time and working very poorly with them. (I think it's Blue Ridge, but that might be me being insane; either way; it is a contract that The Planting Company held up to last year, but then got passed to Dorsey when the planting company stopped running independent camps). There were definitely instances where the wrong seedlot was planted; so planters spent 4 hours planting a bad seedlot, ended up pulling those trees, while other planters came in planting identical trees of the correct seedlot (I didn't get to see this, but apparently it got confusing fast).

The camp was 30-40 people, mostly vets; Dorsey only had 7 rookies, all of whom made it at least to the end of this period (one of whom joined the summer plant). In general, people with 2-4 years experience, planting for Dorsey only, though there were a few 5 year vets, a 6 year vet from Greenpeaks, and a 10th or 11th year vet that had worked a variety of companies (the stories I could tell you about this guy...)

All in all, it was decent. Prices were pretty good, organization had some minor issues. Most of the camp went home, but 16 people stayed on to to do a summer plant administered by The Planting Company.


The planting company section:
Shift 1: July 2nd-3rd, Day off (2 days)
Shift 2: July 5th-6th, Day off (2 days)
Shift 3: July 8th-9th, Day off (2 days)
Shift 4: July 11th-16th, Finished. (6 days)

Our first two days were in Rocky Mountain House; we were staying at a campground --- cook for yourself, facilities were BBQ+Fridges. They were for Gerry, a private mill owner. A few of us went up the night before for 20$ and wings to unload a reefer, which was a decent time (plus gave us a good look at how many trees we had). Jerry cares a lot about straight trees, so quality is very strict on that, but believes that trees will grow in pretty much anything, so you can plant in pretty much anything --- which is a good thing, because he spreads his slash around evenly rather than burning it. Finished this in 2 days with the 16 people that chose to stay on (including 1 Dorsey rookie). Tree price goes down to 10 cents. I think we had about 280 boxes of 270 pine; 76000 trees, though Jamie, forman, was planting, so 17 planters; =~2300 per planter per day...that sounds about right for these two days. Finished planting at 7:00 or so, went to Gerry's Alpaca farm for Beer and Pizza, got back to camp at 10:15.

The next 2 days we had 37000 trees for 16 planters = ~2300 trees per planter. Drives were about 2 hours each way, we were planting for "Tree's Consulting" which apparently was the last arm of government planting. We were planting 412s, 180 to a box. The specs were a lot stricter than anything else I planted all summer. The 2 checkers spent most of the day on the blocks. They wanted screefing (boot sized around the tree), but not because they wanted a screef, but because they were worried holes wouldn't be closed. Given these numbers, we can figure that planter average was 150$/these two days.

The reason they were worried that holes wouldn't be closed is because we were on grass mat.
That was a fill plant.
That was compacted by cattle grazing.

In hind sight, it was hilarious. Also, the checkers told us we'd be fined 100$ for unclosed caches, going up after the first offence. In hind sight, also hilarious. People knew it would be bad, and that it was just extra work, so the effort to keep calm was...still an effort, but an anticipated one.

Due to the two hour drive, both mornings we left camp at 7:00 AM, and got back at 7:00 PM the first day and 9:00 PM the second. I ended up having a long conversation with the manager trying to figure out what happened. Apparently this contract was underbid with Rhino, simply to get TPC/Dorsey planters some extra work for a longer season (37 days without it goes to 49 days with it). That must have been a harsh bidding process. I also have a suspicion that both Rhino and TPC were bidding without inspecting the blocks on this contract, since it was split off from a contract with Tree's Consulting that Rhino got that, according to the checker, was entirely trenches and mounds and more traditional straight plants.

The next two days were in Drayton valey; they heli'ed trees into this block that was a 1-2 km trudge through swamp, though we guessed it could have been quaded. It was straight plant, and decent. We had 204 boxes of 180 trees for these two days; 37000 trees/16 planters/2 days = ~1200 trees a day, ~131 dollars/day. (I think we were getting 11 cents on this one). The first day we left camp at 7:00 and got back at 7:00. Second day finished at 2:00 PM or so.


The final shift we spent in Blairmore in the Crows Nest pass; a spectacular area.
Day 1 we started planting at noon or so for a variety of reasons; there were people RVing on some of the people's pieces. This leg of the contract had mostly fills, mostly cattle-packed (though some of it got miraculously softer in places); at 13 cents. Camp average I'd guess between 150-200$, though some days it hit 250$ (calculated based on being told how many trees the camp planted, knowing the price and number of planters). Species were a mix of 410's and 412's. We were in a small, cramped campground, cooking on the barbeque again (no fridge at this campground) --- but by this point people were eating out lots. When we started there, town was packed due to a 142 km relay race. When we ended there, town was packed due to the "Fire in the Valley" festival.

These 5 days are some of the better stuff in the contract; lots of hit and miss, but some of the blocks were actually decent. Lots of slow starts due to walk ins, block moves. The blocks were also generally quite confusing in layout; they had burned, then been planted about 5 years back. There were some areas where the burned trees had been cleared away, which is where we were filling ; but the people that planted 5 years ago went straight through. And the block maps had been made by walking the permiter, which didn't show all the internal stands of dead trees that we weren't supposed to go through.

We also saw cows on our cattle trodden blocks, eating our trees, days after we planted them. Not sure why. Also got to plant the side of a cliff and have some of the coolest view ever.

We also have the incredibly hilarious thing on July 15th, where we walk ~40 minutes to our block, which is a fill plant. It becomes really clear that it is really unsubtly divided into stocked and non-stocked on my first bag up, but in weird patches I can't quite figure out. The foreman, Jamie, also notices, and Trevor says we can stick to the less stocked areas as long as we don't miss anything.

The second bag up I lead some people to stick to roads and burns, because otherwise we'll be here all day. The roads and burns are really overgrown, but still subtly there.

Halfway through that bag up, Jamie realizes that this block is actually roads and burns and gets the word out to the planters. It got mislabelled. Apparently the way this occurs is the 10 year surveyor comes in and finds a few open plots; says it needs a fill. Passes it along to someone at Tree's Consulting who doesn't realize. Then we go in and walk stocked land thinking we're just in a denser part of the fill.

We finished by 12:20; we had a few planters leave by now, so we were down to 14; had about 900 trees each at 13 cents= ~120$.

We pack up camp, breakdown gear, and move to a campground at Clairesholm (I think). Plant a half day there; taking a ~5k hike/quad down one road to plant 4000 trees; then go the other way to plant another few thousand trees. Get back to camp at 3:50, and it's sunny and gorgeous, and Trevor buys everyone pizza and beer to celebrate.


It was crazy. Despite that, I came out of it having respect for Trevor Molinski, who did a good job despite brutal circumstances. The industry is hitting recession, and Jim Illot, owner of TPC, wants to keep work for his planters (I'm guessing?). Ends up bidding desperately on a contract, and Trevor is the one who got stuck managing. It shouldn't have been bid in this way; I don't know what the bid sheet is; I don't know the difference between TPC and Rhino's bid. I don't know if Rhino would have had an easier time of it by virtue of already working in the area. But difficult terrain, strange blocks, weird disorganization (being told we're on a fill block which is actually roads and burns?)...it was still okay. People still made 150-200$ in general over the entire 11 day contract, while probably only spending 20-30$/day. For desperate summer work when you have no other options? Sometimes you get stuck taking it. Plus the people were good, and the country we were in the crows nest pass? People from Calgary were paying a fortune to go spend time down there...


Anyways, Dorsey isn't going out again. TPC is. My guess is that it will probably be okay --- the Alberta stuff with Blue Ridge is pretty normal, Jerry's stuff is okay (lower price but less strict quality). They're running about 30 planters in 6 packs, and the Foremen (above mentioned) are good, hard workers who know what need to be done. Plus Trevor seems serious about making things good, and I think he can probably do it.

As always, I am simply one person with one persepctive in the planting job, which can be more mentally challenging than physical. Take everything I say here with a grain of salt. Furthermore, things can change wildly from season to season. Good luck, and happy planting.

[kenax]

With the permission of Scooter I just copied updated information from this thread to the Treeplanter’s Database found at http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/ to make it easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against one another, in the hopes that they will treat and pay their planters better.

[Mike]

Most recently working under the name Legacy Silviculture.

[krahn]

i met someone in value village last weekend that mentioned that said much of TM's people, including foremen, weren't returning this year. they were my rookie company and besides the terrible prices, they broke many laws and i'm surprised i ever made it past the one season. they've had better years than that but overall it still seems like much the same company. i'd advise against working for shuswap/theplantingcompany/legacy if you have other options.

[Mike]

Upated Contact Info:

Trevor Molinski (manager)
theplantingcompany@gmail.com
http://www.theplantingcompany.ca/

[redxiv7]

i met someone in value village last weekend that mentioned that said much of TM's people, including foremen, weren't returning this year. they were my rookie company and besides the terrible prices, they broke many laws and i'm surprised i ever made it past the one season. they've had better years than that but overall it still seems like much the same company. i'd advise against working for shuswap/theplantingcompany/legacy if you have other options.

+1 for this anybody planning on heading out next season, cheers.

[Earth]

Ok so this page requires some updating and some clarification. I have been working with Legacy since its inception and with both Dorsey and The Planting Company (TPC) prior to that. In fact, I am the "Adrian" that Mike refers to in his rather large paragraph above (which I will use as the benchmark for my own). After reading it I recall Mike distinctly and am not surprised to see he has become such an active member of a community such as this one. I only knew him for a brief time but I do remember him being a quality planter in every regard, and I would have nothing negative to say about him or his planting.

I'll do my best to recount this as accurately as I can, but dates and years all seem to blend together when you've been in the game for 8 years. Dorsey Contracting was owned by Mark Ilott. I joined up with them in the summer of 2008, kicking the season off with "Isolation Camp," the legacy of which will never die so long as planters who were there are still alive. Dorsey was a powerhouse crew. Competition was heavy between planters, and rookies had to ball to earn respect at camp. I remember planting with them in Gypsumville, The Pas, Kenora, Fox Creek, Whitecourt, etc... in my 2 years as a planter. My Dorsey memories are few as it was so long ago and the seasons seem to all blend together, but planting was good, parties were frequent and totally off the hook, and crew the was solid. I believe the last time Dorsey operated independently was the summer of 2009.

For the 2010 planting season Dorsey Contracting was amalgamated with TPC since Mark had decided he wanted to retire from the game to spend more time with his kids. TPC was, and as of 2015 still is, owned by Jim Ilott, the brother of Mark, and managed by Trevor Molinski. I wouldn't be able to describe TPC prior to 2010 as I only did a bit of summer work for them. From what I understand it was good planting but an absolutely crazy crew. As for Shuswap Silvics, I believe that was Jim Ilott's prior endeavor before TPC and I don't believe it is operating at this time. So 2010 was Mark's final year in any management role, and both companies operated together. The season was smaller work than what I remember with Dorsey, but bigger work than I believe TPC was used to. Land, prices, and planting were average as I recall, but organization was poor which led to diminished planting time. I was promoted to management along with Eric (from Mikes post) to alleviate some of the pressure and make things more smooth. In the summer of 2011 Dorsey was officially dissolved, and TPC underwent a type of rebirth as it became the host to the remaining Dorsey planters. It was this summer (or perhaps 2012 I can't remember) that TPC changed its name to Legacy Reforestation. They had all their experienced planters select names and vote on them during the end of the year party. It was great. Legacy Reforestation has operated since that time, and I have been a crew boss with them every subsequent summer.

The important thing to remember is that Legacy Reforestation is NOT the Dorsey or TPC of old. Anyone who planted for Dorsey or TPC prior to 2011 cannot make any assumptions about Legacy based on their experience. I would even go as far as to say that, due to a tumultuous few first seasons, those who planted with Legacy before this past summer (2015) don't truly know what Legacy has to offer. Dorsey simply doesn’t exist anymore, and there are only 2 or 3 planters left from that era at Legacy (including myself). Trevor and Jim took the opportunity to leave the old TPC behind and devote their attention to making Legacy the best company they can. It’s simply different and better, and I’ll do my best to describe it for you.

Our first two days were in Rocky Mountain House; we were staying at a campground --- cook for yourself, facilities were BBQ+Fridges. They were for Gerry, a private mill owner.

The stories of Gerry, his blocks, his passion for alpacas and alpaca products, and his contract in general are out of this world. About 100,000 trees to end the year. However, for a number of reasons Legacy no longer works for him and has never since found itself based out of Rocky Mountain House.

The next 2 days we had 37000 trees for 16 planters = ~2300 trees per planter. Drives were about 2 hours each way, we were planting for "Tree's Consulting" which apparently was the last arm of government planting.

Legacy also no longer works for Trees Consulting. Mike's post doesn't even begin to describe how utterly absurd this contract was from start to finish. Seriously it was grassy cattle trodden fill plant where the boundaries of the block were non-existant. Or it was chest high grass/fireweed fill plant on an 80 degree slope. Some was decent, but most was hilariously bad. A couple hundred thousand trees at most.

95% of the work Legacy does is in Alberta for Blue Ridge Lumber, a division of West Fraser. They usually work around Whitecourt, Swan Hills, Edson, and Fox Creek, but in the last few years have also done some work for the government of Manitoba in The Pas and Beausejour. Last year there was none, but it isn't out of the question that they get some in years to come. In my time there they have done no BC work, although they are thinking about trying to branch into the province to provide a longer season. Will have to see what happens. Last season went from May 15 to July 25 roughly. Expect in the area of 2.8 to 3 million trees. Had about 3.2 million last season.

Pay obviously depends on the contract, but generally for their Alberta ground it's 11c/tree for straight plant, 10c/tree for prepped land, and 13c/tree for fill. Prices are occasionally adjusted to accommodate for lost production in especially gnarly land, but this is not always the case. Real planters know that you just have to power through some shit from time to time. We mostly plant the traditional 9s, with 8 - 10 being acceptable (1800/ha). Regular quality specs. A lot of straight plant but a lot of mounds/rips too. Roads and burns as well but you gotta do what you gotta do. Nothing different than anyone else would find in Alberta. The occasional half density block, but maybe only 1 or 2 all season, and sometimes none. We do road and quad access work, and in the last few years have done quite a bit of heli work too. Pay is adjusted for any walk in longer than 2km from drop off to block entrance. We run full crews (around 11 or 12), and foremen don't plant. Camp size is roughly 35 and there is only 1 camp operating at a time. We do 4 on 1 off, but much like any other company we will pound for 5 or 5 and a half days if we need to. A lot of people flag heavily, although many don't at all, except to be courteous. We use the sticker system; collecting them off each box and handing them in at days end. In the last few years there have been no extended breaks during the season. We plant almost exclusively lodgepole pine, white spruce, and black spruce. In MB we have planted jack pine as well. Traditional 315s, 255s, 270s, 225s, some 640s. We do hire rookies. Highballers make $300 a day easy. Breakfast at 6, leave at 7, finish at 5:30. Camp cost around 28$, although Legacy offers financial incentive/reduced camp cost to returning planters. Planters who demonstrate maturity and trustworthiness can sometimes make some extra coin helping sling trees on days off or drive trucks to/from the block.

In the past Legacy has done mostly motel/campground shows, but this past summer we had a bush camp for 3/4 of the season up the HWY 32 near Whitecourt. For the last leg of the season near Edson we stayed at a campground. You can expect bush camps for the majority of the season in years to come, and decent campgrounds for smaller portions. Typical mess tent, dry tent, shower trailer, cook bus set up. Trevor and Jim do not stay in camp, although they will come by for an hour or so on party nights or for the occasional first day of the shift meeting. They are accepting of the planting lifestyle. Stephan (from Mike's post) is now acting camp manager. He is a great guy and a damn good manager. As long as you aren't an idiot, and you don't try to fight people or be an asshole, you will be fine. Parties occur every planting Friday are are a good time. Guitar players, one Okarina player actually, singers etc... It is not a camp of debauchery, rowdiness, and filth, but rather a mellow but exciting slooshy good time. A lot of card playing, drinking games, bonfires, going into town for playoff hockey and soccer games, etc... Most people are students, probably 20 - 25. Not too many religious people although there is a contingent of African students from UofM who are somewhat religious and the occasional religious guy or girl. No religious undertones in camp. You can smoke or drink whatever you want whenever you wan't as long as you work when you are supposed to and you aren't being an asshole to other people. Healthy girl/guy ratio that management takes into consideration. There is a camp newspaper/bulletin board in the mess tent, and planters are encouraged to write their own pieces and pin them up! If you arrive with a friend we can arrange that you plant with them or are on the same crew. Legacy has a camp cook and has done away with the "cook for yourself" business as of recently. I can't see this happening again frankly. The cook last year was great, always enough food, tasty, etc... The cook, who we expect to return again for years to come, sends out food surveys to gauge preference prior to season start. They also cater to allergies, vegetarians, etc.. within reason.

...and yes, trucks are always new each year.

For the sake of being fair and balanced I'll elaborate on the not so good aspects of Legacy. It is not out of the realm of possibility that you find yourself in a campground where you cannot be as loud as you want. If you damage equipment (dent trucks, etc...) you will need to pay for it. You won't be planting cream all the time, there is some grass and rock etc... Similarly we do some roads and burns, just burn piles, and some other unique planting of that type. If you are planting 750 trees a day after 3 weeks you might be asked to leave. The food rotation last year got a bit old and predictable, but I expect this to change for the better soon. There is the occasional long walk in or long drive. The company will absorb quality fines to an extent, but if blocks fail with especially bad quality then fines can be levied. If I do not return this year (undecided) then next year will have one 5+ year foreman, a one year foreman, and a rookie foreman, which might be a bit of an inexperienced foreman crew for some. Rides to town are not readily available during the planting week. There will also likely be heli work. There is no internet in camp, although there is a charging station. Like I said, we hire rookies which some planters don't like. You likely won't ever be getting August work with Legacy.

Honestly Legacy is as good a choice as any for tree planting. I'll admit I have no real experience with other companies other than Dorsey and TPC, but I can assure you the show we run is a good one. Trevor and Jim are serious about investing into this company to grow it. They are serious about having good equipment, and get new ATVs every 2 years and new trucks every year. They are serious about providing the best they can for their planters. They are serious about building a good rep with the mill to help secure extra trees year after year. They are serious about minimizing the distance between block and camp, and doing away with shitty unproductive and unworthy contracts. They are serious about doing better than Dorsey and TPC before them. The company has had difficulty establishing itself over the last few years due to having no solid core crew to begin with, having a tough burn contract obligation year, trying to find a new competent cook, management turnover, and a unique conflict with one of its foremen, but right now its done with all of that shit, fresh off it's first great season, and looking for the new core of young planters to make it their own and take it into the future.

The structure of this post disintegrated, but if you have any questions go ahead and ask.

[paul_s]

That's a detailed review. Thanks for sharing. I thought TPC was out of business.

[evan]

"Adrian" said:

Ok so this page requires some updating and some clarification. I have been working with Legacy since its inception and with both Dorsey and The Planting Company (TPC) prior to that. In fact, I am the "Adrian" that Mike refers to in his rather large paragraph above (which I will use as the benchmark for my own). After reading it I recall Mike distinctly and am not surprised to see he has become such an active member of a community such as this one. I only knew him for a brief time but I do remember him being a quality planter in every regard, and I would have nothing negative to say about him or his planting.

I'll do my best to recount this as accurately as I can, but dates and years all seem to blend together when you've been in the game for 8 years. Dorsey Contracting was owned by Mark Ilott. I joined up with them in the summer of 2008, kicking the season off with "Isolation Camp," the legacy of which will never die so long as planters who were there are still alive. Dorsey was a powerhouse crew. Competition was heavy between planters, and rookies had to ball to earn respect at camp. I remember planting with them in Gypsumville, The Pas, Kenora, Fox Creek, Whitecourt, etc... in my 2 years as a planter. My Dorsey memories are few as it was so long ago and the seasons seem to all blend together, but planting was good, parties were frequent and totally off the hook, and crew the was solid. I believe the last time Dorsey operated independently was the summer of 2009.

For the 2010 planting season Dorsey Contracting was amalgamated with TPC since Mark had decided he wanted to retire from the game to spend more time with his kids. TPC was, and as of 2015 still is, owned by Jim Ilott, the brother of Mark, and managed by Trevor Molinski. I wouldn't be able to describe TPC prior to 2010 as I only did a bit of summer work for them. From what I understand it was good planting but an absolutely crazy crew. As for Shuswap Silvics, I believe that was Jim Ilott's prior endeavor before TPC and I don't believe it is operating at this time. So 2010 was Mark's final year in any management role, and both companies operated together. The season was smaller work than what I remember with Dorsey, but bigger work than I believe TPC was used to. Land, prices, and planting were average as I recall, but organization was poor which led to diminished planting time. I was promoted to management along with Eric (from Mikes post) to alleviate some of the pressure and make things more smooth. In the summer of 2011 Dorsey was officially dissolved, and TPC underwent a type of rebirth as it became the host to the remaining Dorsey planters. It was this summer (or perhaps 2012 I can't remember) that TPC changed its name to Legacy Reforestation. They had all their experienced planters select names and vote on them during the end of the year party. It was great. Legacy Reforestation has operated since that time, and I have been a crew boss with them every subsequent summer.

The important thing to remember is that Legacy Reforestation is NOT the Dorsey or TPC of old. Anyone who planted for Dorsey or TPC prior to 2011 cannot make any assumptions about Legacy based on their experience. I would even go as far as to say that, due to a tumultuous few first seasons, those who planted with Legacy before this past summer (2015) don't truly know what Legacy has to offer. Dorsey simply doesn’t exist anymore, and there are only 2 or 3 planters left from that era at Legacy (including myself). Trevor and Jim took the opportunity to leave the old TPC behind and devote their attention to making Legacy the best company they can. It’s simply different and better, and I’ll do my best to describe it for you.

Our first two days were in Rocky Mountain House; we were staying at a campground --- cook for yourself, facilities were BBQ+Fridges. They were for Gerry, a private mill owner.



The stories of Gerry, his blocks, his passion for alpacas and alpaca products, and his contract in general are out of this world. About 100,000 trees to end the year. However, for a number of reasons Legacy no longer works for him and has never since found itself based out of Rocky Mountain House.

The next 2 days we had 37000 trees for 16 planters = ~2300 trees per planter. Drives were about 2 hours each way, we were planting for "Tree's Consulting" which apparently was the last arm of government planting.



Legacy also no longer works for Trees Consulting. Mike's post doesn't even begin to describe how utterly absurd this contract was from start to finish. Seriously it was grassy cattle trodden fill plant where the boundaries of the block were non-existant. Or it was chest high grass/fireweed fill plant on an 80 degree slope. Some was decent, but most was hilariously bad. A couple hundred thousand trees at most.

95% of the work Legacy does is in Alberta for Blue Ridge Lumber, a division of West Fraser. They usually work around Whitecourt, Swan Hills, Edson, and Fox Creek, but in the last few years have also done some work for the government of Manitoba in The Pas and Beausejour. Last year there was none, but it isn't out of the question that they get some in years to come. In my time there they have done no BC work, although they are thinking about trying to branch into the province to provide a longer season. Will have to see what happens. Last season went from May 15 to July 25 roughly. Expect in the area of 2.8 to 3 million trees. Had about 3.2 million last season.

Pay obviously depends on the contract, but generally for their Alberta ground it's 11c/tree for straight plant, 10c/tree for prepped land, and 13c/tree for fill. Prices are occasionally adjusted to accommodate for lost production in especially gnarly land, but this is not always the case. Real planters know that you just have to power through some shit from time to time. We mostly plant the traditional 9s, with 8 - 10 being acceptable (1800/ha). Regular quality specs. A lot of straight plant but a lot of mounds/rips too. Roads and burns as well but you gotta do what you gotta do. Nothing different than anyone else would find in Alberta. The occasional half density block, but maybe only 1 or 2 all season, and sometimes none. We do road and quad access work, and in the last few years have done quite a bit of heli work too. Pay is adjusted for any walk in longer than 2km from drop off to block entrance. We run full crews (around 11 or 12), and foremen don't plant. Camp size is roughly 35 and there is only 1 camp operating at a time. We do 4 on 1 off, but much like any other company we will pound for 5 or 5 and a half days if we need to. A lot of people flag heavily, although many don't at all, except to be courteous. We use the sticker system; collecting them off each box and handing them in at days end. In the last few years there have been no extended breaks during the season. We plant almost exclusively lodgepole pine, white spruce, and black spruce. In MB we have planted jack pine as well. Traditional 315s, 255s, 270s, 225s, some 640s. We do hire rookies. Highballers make $300 a day easy. Breakfast at 6, leave at 7, finish at 5:30. Camp cost around 28$, although Legacy offers financial incentive/reduced camp cost to returning planters. Planters who demonstrate maturity and trustworthiness can sometimes make some extra coin helping sling trees on days off or drive trucks to/from the block.

In the past Legacy has done mostly motel/campground shows, but this past summer we had a bush camp for 3/4 of the season up the HWY 32 near Whitecourt. For the last leg of the season near Edson we stayed at a campground. You can expect bush camps for the majority of the season in years to come, and decent campgrounds for smaller portions. Typical mess tent, dry tent, shower trailer, cook bus set up. Trevor and Jim do not stay in camp, although they will come by for an hour or so on party nights or for the occasional first day of the shift meeting. They are accepting of the planting lifestyle. Stephan (from Mike's post) is now acting camp manager. He is a great guy and a damn good manager. As long as you aren't an idiot, and you don't try to fight people or be an asshole, you will be fine. Parties occur every planting Friday are are a good time. Guitar players, one Okarina player actually, singers etc... It is not a camp of debauchery, rowdiness, and filth, but rather a mellow but exciting slooshy good time. A lot of card playing, drinking games, bonfires, going into town for playoff hockey and soccer games, etc... Most people are students, probably 20 - 25. Not too many religious people although there is a contingent of African students from UofM who are somewhat religious and the occasional religious guy or girl. No religious undertones in camp. You can smoke or drink whatever you want whenever you wan't as long as you work when you are supposed to and you aren't being an asshole to other people. Healthy girl/guy ratio that management takes into consideration. There is a camp newspaper/bulletin board in the mess tent, and planters are encouraged to write their own pieces and pin them up! If you arrive with a friend we can arrange that you plant with them or are on the same crew. Legacy has a camp cook and has done away with the "cook for yourself" business as of recently. I can't see this happening again frankly. The cook last year was great, always enough food, tasty, etc... The cook, who we expect to return again for years to come, sends out food surveys to gauge preference prior to season start. They also cater to allergies, vegetarians, etc.. within reason.

...and yes, trucks are always new each year.

For the sake of being fair and balanced I'll elaborate on the not so good aspects of Legacy. It is not out of the realm of possibility that you find yourself in a campground where you cannot be as loud as you want. If you damage equipment (dent trucks, etc...) you will need to pay for it. You won't be planting cream all the time, there is some grass and rock etc... Similarly we do some roads and burns, just burn piles, and some other unique planting of that type. If you are planting 750 trees a day after 3 weeks you might be asked to leave. The food rotation last year got a bit old and predictable, but I expect this to change for the better soon. There is the occasional long walk in or long drive. The company will absorb quality fines to an extent, but if blocks fail with especially bad quality then fines can be levied. If I do not return this year (undecided) then next year will have one 5+ year foreman, a one year foreman, and a rookie foreman, which might be a bit of an inexperienced foreman crew for some. Rides to town are not readily available during the planting week. There will also likely be heli work. There is no internet in camp, although there is a charging station. Like I said, we hire rookies which some planters don't like. You likely won't ever be getting August work with Legacy.

Honestly Legacy is as good a choice as any for tree planting. I'll admit I have no real experience with other companies other than Dorsey and TPC, but I can assure you the show we run is a good one. Trevor and Jim are serious about investing into this company to grow it. They are serious about having good equipment, and get new ATVs every 2 years and new trucks every year. They are serious about providing the best they can for their planters. They are serious about building a good rep with the mill to help secure extra trees year after year. They are serious about minimizing the distance between block and camp, and doing away with shitty unproductive and unworthy contracts. They are serious about doing better than Dorsey and TPC before them. The company has had difficulty establishing itself over the last few years due to having no solid core crew to begin with, having a tough burn contract obligation year, trying to find a new competent cook, management turnover, and a unique conflict with one of its foremen, but right now its done with all of that shit, fresh off it's first great season, and looking for the new core of young planters to make it their own and take it into the future.

The structure of this post disintegrated, but if you have any questions go ahead and ask.

[evan]

If you damage equipment (dent trucks, etc...) you will need to pay for it.

This is illegal

The company will absorb quality fines to an extent, but if blocks fail with especially bad quality then fines can be levied.

This is illegal

13c/tree for fill.

This is terrible

[Mike]

Hey Adrian! Cool to hear that you and Stephen are still around --- you guys were great. Neat to hear how things have changed, and I'm glad Legacy Reforestation is now looking a little more like a standard planting company, and good call on ditching Trees Consulting --- Blue Ridge was probably always the best of the contracts that worked.

[evan]

Call the labor board if u had any of these ILLEGAL deductions and u can get your money back

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=66572

There is the info

[fields]

I worked for Legacy for summer plant 2015. There was no handsoap at the shitters when I first arrived at camp. Big red flag there...

Also, they withhold payment until the end of the season, and people weren't getting the advances they asked for.

I could go on, but I would rather not.