what happened to brian adam's contracting?

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Screefhead
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Re: what happened to brian adam's contracting?

Post by Screefhead » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:22 pm

quote="mwainwright"]
also, maybe a public forum is not the best place to handle these matters.[/quote]

Agree and disagree, true the gossipy BS and speculations arent needed. Unfortunately, a public forums is one of our few remaining options.
The government is doing nothing , BCTS could give a crap and I doubt any of us have the finances to hire a lawyer.

The only for sure facts are:

1. Nobody has been paid since June 8th.last planting day was June 27th. A few had gotten advances though.
2. Brian has made no effort to contact anyone, his cell phone is disconnected and he doesn't answer emails.
3. No ROES have been sent out.
4. BCTS hasn't released any meaningful information to the planters.

When the shit hits the fan, people should speak up though. Planters are far too complacent when it comes to things like getting paid or even safety matters. A public forum is exactly the place where some of the sketchier contractors should be made accountable.

In this case, i dont think anyone knows what the real story is except Brian and Adam. And personally, i dont give a crap, I just want to get paid ... and soon.

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Mr. Amazing
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Re: what happened to brian adam's contracting?

Post by Mr. Amazing » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:42 pm

I'd say the tide has turned against these cheesy little contractors with shallow pockets and BIG DREAMS. Fuck off, and stop bidding on shit if you have anything LESS than a $100 000 line of credit, and be sure to keep your shit square with CRA (et al)... I'm reading between the lines here, but did BCTS garnish the earnings off this Rossland contract to settle an outstanding tax debt?! For years, planters have put up with total bullshit from shady contractors who may pay a ~decent~ wage, but flout laws regarding timely pay. This demands a new thread....

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Re: what happened to brian adam's contracting?

Post by Scooter » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:08 am

stop bidding on shit if you have anything LESS than a $100 000 line of credit,
That's got to be a pretty tiny contractor, if you think $100g will keep you from bouncing cheques in your current account. Let me try to put this into perspective:

I really don't pay a whole lot of attention to the management side of things at my own company because once August 1st comes, I want to switch off my brain and not think about planting again until at LEAST the 2nd week of January, when I need to start planning out a camp again. So there is a grey line - on one hand I definitely do care about the future of my own company and want it to remain an ongoing concern. But on the other hand, despite the fact that I've done this for so long and have no intentions of quitting for a while yet, I do like to delude myself constantly that tree planting is not a career for me. It's nice to pretend that I'm not coming back next year. So although I'm sometimes curious about financials targets/ratios/crossbars, when I do have those thoughts it is essentially because I have a Masters in Business Administration and these are natural curiousities, rather than because I want to or do know about some of the more detailed number-crunching that occurs behind the scenes.

So the numbers that I'm about to throw out at you in the next couple of paragraphs are pure speculation. If I had concrete numbers, I wouldn't share them, because that's proprietary knowledge. But think of these thought-provoking observations:

I've run camps that have had over 60 people. Think about that as being 50 planters and 10 management people. That's a bigger camp than most, and certainly not what I'm running nowadays, but it's been a realistic number in the recent past. So let's assume that in a "busy" two week pay period, the camp works 12 days. Let's assume that I have mostly vets, and they should average at least $250 per day per person. And let's assume that the management people, on average, earn the same (hopefully more due to the longer hours, but let's keep it simple). The $250 average certainly doesn't apply in May because of the rookies, and it certainly doesn't apply year round these days because there is so much pricing pressure, but during good times, we can hope for the best.

60 people at $250 per day equals $15,000 per day in wages. Multiply that by 12 days in a pay period, and you have almost $200,000 in a "big" pay period for a bigger camp.

Think about the PG companies that have five camps. Ignoring this year, I would assume that Folklore usually does, Summit usually does, Nechako usually does, and Celtic usually does. Spectrum and Seneca might not meet the goal, but would also be up there.

For companies in that situation, a few years ago, with five or six camps, you'd be looking at a total payroll of nearly a MILLION dollars every two weeks. And that doesn't even touch on vehicle rentals or maintenance/repairs, fuel, food, trucking, WCB & payroll taxes, and a couple dozen other "small" items that sometimes cost more than a house.

Even for a company half that size, with payroll approaching half a million every two weeks, the payables can add up to a lot of cash over the course of a season, especially if you suddenly realize that a lot of licenses and the MOF don't pay their bills until after everyone is done planting. And in theory, BC companies are legally obligated to pay in full every two weeks.

My point is that for any decent sized company, my professional guess would be that I'd want at least a million and a half for a line of credit.


This should be some serious food for thought for all the independent entrepreneurial types out there who sit around the campfire and dream about starting up their own fledgling companies. Put it this way: I've had those same thoughts many, many times. And not once have I ever, in my wildest dreams, decided that it would be worth the risks to try to form my own company. The legal and regulatory obligations are onorous enough as it is, but the financial requirements (line-of-credit) are the final nail in the coffin. The existing contractors don't need to create barriers of entry. The barriers already exist, for anyone with much common sense to see.

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Re: what happened to brian adam's contracting?

Post by Scooter » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:16 am

Sorry, I believe that last post was what should be referred to as a "tangent" or a "thread-jacking." I guess I got distracted by the line-of-credit line-of-thought, and forgot about what really has me annoyed right now. BC companies are supposed to be paying IN FULL BI-WEEKLY for planting. If you aren't, and you let your company get away with not paying you on a timely basis, you put your own financial situation at risk if the company defaults.

I'm sorry, because I know these comments are going to raise a lot of hackles. Some company owners are going to take offense, because many of the companies in British Columbia STILL do not pay in full every two weeks. They pretend that partial advances are adequate. And some planters may be offended and take this as a "my company is better than yours" discussion, which is not the position that I'm trying to emphasize. I'm trying to emphasize that if you're working for a company that doesn't pay 100% of wages every two weeks, you should do something about it by bringing it up with the owners as a FIRST step. It's the law. Yes, it's hard for management to comply with, and it drives me crazy in my own camp and leads to a lot of late nights for my foremen and data entry people. But it's the law. Maybe some people who are working for companies that do not pay in full every two weeks should do some job-shopping. And maybe some employers out there who try to fly under the radar should smarten up. I'm not naming names, but I've worked for several BC companies in the past several years that do not pay bi-weekly in full. In an economy where licensees all over the place seem to be at constant risk of insolvency, I think I'd want to plant for a company that has no choice but to pay me regularly as work is completed.

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Re: what happened to brian adam's contracting?

Post by Scooter » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:31 am

If anybody at all wants me to close this thread down, just email me or PM me. I think it's come close to serving its purpose, although I won't lock it unless someone wants me to. At the very least, at this point, the affected employees now know that a can of worms has been opened and they know how to get in touch with each other.

On the other topic, the bi-weekly pay: if someone else wants to start a separate thread about that, please feel free to go ahead. But let's let this thread die a peaceful death.

EDIT: Several PM's this morning confirming that the former employees of the companies involved don't need to use this thread anymore, as they can contact each other through alternate means. I'm locking it now.

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