Dynamic Reforestation

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:28 pm

I just realized that Dynamic doesn't have a thread of its own here, so let it begin ...

Contact info for this company is as follows:

DYNAMIC REFORESTATION
Box 4129,
Williams Lake, BC,
V2G 2V2
Phone: (250) 398-9477,
Fax: (250) 398-9478

Website: http://www.dynamicreforestation.com/

I believe, if I remember correctly, that this company formed as an offshoot of Silvaram about eight or nine years ago. Someone can correct me by providing more accurate information.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:35 pm

And now for the interesting stuff ...

I believe that Jeff Robinson, one of the three owners of Dynamic (along with Miles Sanoy and Jason Wiens) has "branched out." He is now working as an Investment Advisor with the Money Concepts office in Prince George, or appeared to be when I was there the other day. Money Concepts is a fairly big Canadian outfit with about a dozen offices in BC alone, and dozens across Canada.

The big question now is, "As an Investment Advisor, did Jeff retain his shares in Dynamic?"

I heard lots of good things about Dynamic in the early 2000's, although in the past couple years, I've heard complaints about low prices. Mind you, I've heard complaints about low prices with a lot of companies.

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:03 pm

can anyone from dynamic elaborate on the low prices? i thought these guys got the best prices..........

newb · Post by **newb** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:06 pm

im thinking of working for dynamic next year

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:07 pm

newb i thought you had to have a best of like 10 000 to work for dynamic what's your best?

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:09 pm

I can do 10k in the very best blocks.

Of course, it takes me two days.

newb · Post by **newb** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:28 am

oups!!

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:31 pm

wow that is really impressive... HIGHBALLER
i heard through the grape vine it was at buffalo head though and on some creammmyyyyy stuff and a long day?

anyway i would like to know more about dynamic though prices number of work days the atmosphere of the employees etc

newb · Post by **newb** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:23 pm

oups!!

newb · Post by **newb** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:25 pm

oups!!

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:25 pm

Re: Dynamic Reforestation
by thatguy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:03 pm

can anyone from dynamic elaborate on the low prices? i thought these guys got the best prices..........
thatguy
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Re: Dynamic Reforestation
by newb » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:06 pm

im thinking of working for dynamic next year

That's pretty classy. Post these comments, and then later in the thread admit that you worked together there. I usually find that the best way to make your own company look better is to be honest and up-front about the pros and cons, rather than make posts pretending to be third-party to the company.

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:05 am

Scooter we never worked for Dynamic i assure you that. In-fact we worked for a generic rookie mill in BC that alot of people dislike but yea we did work for the same company but different crews.
But I am interested in what Dynamic has to offer as I heard alot about them this summer while working for the other company and how their prices were super high and everyone had a great time and was hoping to get some feedback from actual people working for Dynamic than people who worked with us and never actually worked for Dynamic thats all.
So dont think we worked for Dynamic when we didnt we just know each other thats all. Sorry that it looked that way.
Peace

Richianity · Post by **Richianity** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:11 am

thatguy wrote:how their prices were super high and everyone had a great time

and everyone got BJ's from the checker, and all the girls planted topless, and midday everyone would hold hands and have a sing-along....

couldn't help myself

richianity.blogspot.com

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:37 am

well i want to work there for sure if thats the case holding hands bj's sing alongs topless girls whats not to like then

Richianity · Post by **Richianity** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:43 am

Good point!

let us know what you discover!

newb · Post by **newb** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:16 pm

what about an end of year circle jerk? can we have that...
but seriously dynamic seems a lot better then the rookie mill we worked at last year. either way i had a good time in my first season and made some good money

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:57 pm

Scooter we never worked for Dynamic i assure you that.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood those first posts.

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:06 pm

yea i just know him so was giving him a hard time.
so no one from dynamic can answer any questions thats to bad

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:22 pm

I think maybe Windfirm branched off from Dynamic a few years ago? Or maybe it was Artisan. Does anyone know?

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:24 pm

Windfirm is run by Rick Ness, formerly of Silvaram, not sure about Artisan.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:45 pm

Ok, that rings a bell. It's all clicking now. And Artisan is a spin-off from Dynamic run by Peter Horak. I've actually worked with Peter before, great guy.

Captain Slashpile · Post by **Captain Slashpile** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:36 pm

Everyone's a great guy till you see your cheque...

newb · Post by **newb** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:26 am

whats the avg wage per day for a good planter on a good company?

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:05 pm

Should be $300, in my opinion, for a decent hard-working vet with a 100 days of experience.

Stiffarm · Post by **Stiffarm** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:12 pm

I did the 2008 and 2009 season with dynamic, good people and Jeff R is a pretty fair guy.
It depends what camp your at some are mostly vets (I think my crew averaged about 7 yrs experience) while others have more rookies . Its mostly obstacle fill planting near Williams Lake. Dynamic had some really good prices last year and you could make $400-500+ daily if you were good. That being said I made 8,500 less this year then I did 2008. Money was lower across the board, going from probably an average of 16c to 14ish. (that's just a guess I don't feel like averaging out all my shit). Anyways It might be hard to get on with them now cause they've been downsizing but they'll give you decent work. I personally am going to try to find greener pastures.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:26 am

whoa that's much better money than i've heard of people making with them around williams lake... i've planted there lots with seneca so i'm curious, what kind of prices were you getting? mostly ministry work?

Stiffarm · Post by **Stiffarm** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:22 am

Yeah that was last year we were getting from 15>25c but we were actually out of Alexis Creek (an hour away from Willies). I know there was another camp working out of Williams lake itself but I don't know what kind of money they were getting. I actually have a graph of all Dynamic's prices posted under the Summit reforestation thread (it was a comparison) Still that was last year, I can tell you it was not nearly that good this year. Oh and It was mostly Tolko work around that area.

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:22 am

i guess no matter who/where you work the grass/trees are always greener somewhere else

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:30 am

thatguy wrote:i guess no matter who/where you work the grass/trees are always greener somewhere else

That pretty much sums up planting.

Greg M. · Post by **Greg M.** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:40 pm

Scooter wrote:
thatguy wrote:i guess no matter who/where you work the grass/trees are always greener somewhere else
That pretty much sums up planting.

I don't know if I agree with that... but I'd love to hear other opinions to maybe help clarify my own.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:20 pm

god i love tolko. usually. i've done lots around alexis creek for the ministry, and that wasn't too bad yet but west of there it gets rockier and rockier till you hit the hellish anaheim lake area. when there's not rocks you get a pit of sand but those were rare for us. i think the vets were making about 150 a day, except for blue collar who were getting paid by the hector and rookies were clearing 4 bills. the only good thing about planting that far west of williams is that you're close enough to visit bella coola which is a fun day off.

Stiffarm · Post by **Stiffarm** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:24 pm

yeah with all the mills shutting down Williams lake is becoming the new PG

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:59 pm

Well, a pretty bias opinion, but as a new manager with dynamic the most refreshing difference that my crew and I noticed this season was the appreciation for the planter from every manager, supervisor and owner. I don't really feel like commenting too much about things, but it seems like good business (in a market that is flooded with good people looking for work) to fill up trucks with high production in an attempt to be as efficient as possible.
Although there has been talk about prices dropping, I am wondering if any seasoned vets out there made more $ this season than they did in 2006 or 2007? I'm pretty sure our industry and economy are in a bit of a lull.

Anyway...it is nice to get big fat pay cheques, but at the end of the day, feeling appreciated and getting a thank you at the end of the day is something that too many companies and managers overlook. Planters are machines, some big companies treat them like that. Dynamic doesnt.

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:04 pm

i like that reply Greg. thanks for the input. It would be nice to feel appreciated at the end of the day thats for sure.

Stiffarm · Post by **Stiffarm** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:28 pm

Thatguy, I find it a little odd that for someone who claims to have no actual affiliation with dynamic the only posts you've made on this site are ones talking about how great this company is....

Ben Mac · Post by **Ben Mac** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:12 pm

One of my buddies has planted for Dynamic for the past three years and according to him it is an awesome company. from what he has told me all three of his spring seasons so far consisted of nothing less than 18 cent fill plants which was usually located around williams lake area. As far as summer went he said it was pretty damn good so i have no idea if it varies between crews and various contracts within Dynamic but they seem to be pretty good from what he told me. Now I consider myself to be in better shape and have planted for just as long as he did, with pretty much the same planting day average (for the past three years since 07) and probably just as good and if not better planter. But seeing as how i have been working with the same company in PG for the past three years I really have no idea if it is true or not...but it really makes me want to switch up companies and see what else is out there.

b-dawg · Post by **b-dawg** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:29 pm

dynamic seems to have maintained an outward reputation of being a lot better than they are. i would wager a lot of money that things were best back when jim munro was running the show.....
i've heard their forepeople and management talking up their work over the past few years, but also heard contrasting info from friends of mine who experienced the planting first-hand and put things into perspective. i'm not trying to bad mouth anyone here, but from a critical stand-point, i'd say that they are in the 'long-days, low-prices' category of companies.
over the years that i worked throughout the chilcotin plateau and on the east side of Willies' around horsefly and likely, i noticed patterns that are probably all too familiar across the province. companies like Dynamic, Backwoods, Seneca, and Blue Collar, who have done the bulk of the work in the area over the past 5+ years, are now whining and complaining about big companies like Brinkman and Summit and Nechako coming in and lowballing the bids...
they certainly weren't whining when THEY were the big companies coming in and lowballing the work from local complanies like Loxton or Cottonwood, who worked more like 20+ years in the area. though dynamic and backwoods are a thin cut above seneca and blue-collar who are a thin cut above brinkman, summit, nechako---- the fact remains that none of them are even close to the kind of work environment enjoyed by those who work(ed) for the local companies.
the differences i noticed between dynamic and the one of the local outfits were incredible: 7-8 hour days compared to 10+ hour days. 20+ cents compared to 12-15 for similar flat beetle-kill ground within a few K's of each other. our fills 26 cents to their 18...
so if dynamic or backwoods or seneca or whoever-else want to pat themselves on the back for being marginally better outfits than brinkman or summit, go ahead. doesn't change the fact that the locals have and always will A) pay better, B) know the area and client(s) better, C) do a better job of forestry given the fact that they can pay more $ for a higher quality job.

oh, and Greg, i am a seasoned vet who made more $ this past season than i did in 07 when i made more than 06, etc..
most companies that are 50+ planters and work in areas where they aren't the locals will definitely alude to "a bit of a lull" in the industry or economy. this is company-speak for legitimizing low-ball bids every year. the more i strive to only allow myself to work for small local companies where there are usually less than 50 planters, the better the season.
now, being that your "new management", dynamic will interest you more than a local company. this is because bigger companies are interested in management and owners and office people (read: those who aren't in the field everyday) making the bulk of the money, while giving planters just enough keep them working through the season. If your interested in getting the best value as a planter, go local! go small! cuz size does matter...

thatguy · Post by **thatguy** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:02 pm

sorry stiffarm absolutely no affiliation to dynamic and newb can vouch for that as we worked together at another company last summer. just trying to find out as much info as i can to make an informed decision about jobs for next summer thats all sorry to bust your bubble.
i only post on this thread because its the only one i am interested in.... sometime earlier this year i started a thread about Lowa boots but no one knew anything about them if that makes you feel better.
and i have no idea if the company is great or not because thats what i am trying to find out

Greg M. · Post by **Greg M.** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:36 pm

b-dawg wrote:dynamic seems to have maintained an outward reputation of being a lot better than they are. i would wager a lot of money that things were best back when jim munro was running the show.....
i've heard their forepeople and management talking up their work over the past few years, but also heard contrasting info from friends of mine who experienced the planting first-hand and put things into perspective. i'm not trying to bad mouth anyone here, but from a critical stand-point, i'd say that they are in the 'long-days, low-prices' category of companies.
over the years that i worked throughout the chilcotin plateau and on the east side of Willies' around horsefly and likely, i noticed patterns that are probably all too familiar across the province. companies like Dynamic, Backwoods, Seneca, and Blue Collar, who have done the bulk of the work in the area over the past 5+ years, are now whining and complaining about big companies like Brinkman and Summit and Nechako coming in and lowballing the bids...
they certainly weren't whining when THEY were the big companies coming in and lowballing the work from local complanies like Loxton or Cottonwood, who worked more like 20+ years in the area. though dynamic and backwoods are a thin cut above seneca and blue-collar who are a thin cut above brinkman, summit, nechako---- the fact remains that none of them are even close to the kind of work environment enjoyed by those who work(ed) for the local companies.
the differences i noticed between dynamic and the one of the local outfits were incredible: 7-8 hour days compared to 10+ hour days. 20+ cents compared to 12-15 for similar flat beetle-kill ground within a few K's of each other. our fills 26 cents to their 18...
so if dynamic or backwoods or seneca or whoever-else want to pat themselves on the back for being marginally better outfits than brinkman or summit, go ahead. doesn't change the fact that the locals have and always will A) pay better, B) know the area and client(s) better, C) do a better job of forestry given the fact that they can pay more $ for a higher quality job.

oh, and Greg, i am a seasoned vet who made more $ this past season than i did in 07 when i made more than 06, etc..
most companies that are 50+ planters and work in areas where they aren't the locals will definitely alude to "a bit of a lull" in the industry or economy. this is company-speak for legitimizing low-ball bids every year. the more i strive to only allow myself to work for small local companies where there are usually less than 50 planters, the better the season.
now, being that your "new management", dynamic will interest you more than a local company. this is because bigger companies are interested in management and owners and office people (read: those who aren't in the field everyday) making the bulk of the money, while giving planters just enough keep them working through the season. If your interested in getting the best value as a planter, go local! go small! cuz size does matter...

Greg M. here not to be confused with Greg.

While I understand and can agree with certain things b-dawg has said, I also feel it necessary to talk about the protectionist frame of mind most "career" planters emanate. While most "careers" can talk about the bigger non-local companies coming in and destroying the work the locals have done for years, the fact of the matter is when people are ready willing and able to work they need a place to work. If "careers" are unwilling to share information about the smaller locals(and there-by risk their position or help a smaller local secure larger scale work) how is a newb going to help pay for school, or that plane ticket, or house without the well intentioned information from a seasoned and well traveled vet but to go and work for the next best thing? You can complain all you want about some random guy writing about their pleasure working for a company that is a step above where they were, but how do you not see the hypocrisy of not allowing them the opportunity (through the sharing of information) to work for a better show? While you may have been used to a way higher price and shorter days and warm fires, great company and wonderful song, the uninformed are happy to merely get to a place that presents them with an opportunity for those same comforts you have enjoyed and they'll be happy to try and work up from there. I've seen a butt load of insults on this site about who not to work" for but I've never seen it followed up with a "you need to give these guys a call." (maybe one instance of hamsterizer saying wild woods still had positions available comes to memory) You want to solve this " issue", you'll have to be willing to share productive info an then be prepared to deal with the possibility you may have cost yourself a job.

b-dawg · Post by **b-dawg** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:21 am

greg m.,

in response to your suggestions of a "protectionist mindframe", i'd counter that my being candid about the exact scale and scope of differences experienced between planting for smaller local companies as opposed to bigger corporate lowballers is exactly what needs to be talked about. it is particularly important given the propensity planters' have for talking numbers shit. i've too long been around planter parties (during the season or off-season) where planters working at lowball big companies are trumpeting how good they have it, when in reality, their not able to see or compare (because they have not experienced) the real differences between them and their local counterparts. it would be akin to the local merchant's well-paid employee sitting in a bar with a bunch of wal-mart employees... as he/she listens to the wal-mart workers delight over having a minimum wage job with no benefits or paid holidays and how thankful they are that their manager in their location is such a great guy compared to the asshole manager over at home-depot; would you blame him/her for blurting out "it doesn't have to be this way..."? telling others that the possiblity of better work being available to those who look for it is "productive information sharing" in my view.

as for this "'careers' mindset" that you speak of.... not totally sure what your getting at here, but it sounds almost like a demand of veteran planters to pony-up the secret key to some locked-up list of info/contacts that only a few folks are privy too. this way, these "uninformed (that) are happy to merely get to a place...." can transfer the responsibility of justifying their support (in the form of labour) to these lowball companies back onto those 'careers' who just won't give-up the needed info to find a company worth planting for. perhaps this is a symptom of the generation(s) that grew up being recruited, sponsored, co-opted, and advertised to (coddled to?) relentlessly in order to solicit their services/support. the only companies that need to recruit, advertise, etc. in this business are the ones that can't retain the previous years labour pool (for reasons that should be obvious), and this will most often not be the local company who can count on happy employees returning year in and year out. i never knew of planters in their 40's and 50's until i started choosing only to work at smaller, local shows.

in short, there is no secret list. no hidden info. it's all out there to be found by those who are driven and determined to not support corporate outfits. if you need to be seduced by glitzy buzz-words; hollow promises guaranteeing an exact number of days; or the security of a highly-structured, summer-camp-style my-crews'-cooler-than-yers competition----there are plenty of options out there. hell, you can even make a pretty penny in management as a part of the aparatus of these type of shows (right Scooter?).

but,
if you want that followed up with a "you need to give these guys a call" instead--- call your local forester. fucking DIY. if you can't work where your from, pick the area with the terrain most compatible with your planting style and call the forester in charge of that area. "hi mister RPF. I am an experienced treeplanter, wondering who is planting the trees in the area this year...."
if you need to have your hand held further, you might be in the wrong line of work.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:19 pm

you can even make a pretty penny in management as a part of the aparatus of these type of shows (right Scooter?).

I've only worked as a foreman and supervisor for three separate companies, so I'm not sure if I'm qualified to comment.

b-dawg · Post by **b-dawg** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:41 am

scooter,

in the "these type of shows" comment, i was mostly referring to being a part of a company that has annually eclipsed the following marks: employees in the hundreds, planting 10's of millions of trees, with probably a double digit # of camps, all 'organized' by several layers of bureaucracy (management, supervisors, regional co-ordinators and the like, on top of the usual forepersons/checkers etc.)....
from what i heard from people i knew that worked there, Folklore surpassed this echelon many years ago. maybe i heard wrong. but if not, then certainly working in managment for a company operating on this type of scale qualifies you to comment.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:53 pm

I am planting for Dynamic currently (2012), and it is quite good from my perspective, with my points of comparison. Expect full review sometime in the winter.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:39 pm

Dynamic Review:

Good evening everyone. It's time for another one of my complete and informative company reviews. As always, I'm making these reviews to provide as much solid and honest information as possible. Knowing which companies are good and which are...less good...is helpful for the industry, as it directs new planters towards better companies. How many people plant 5 seasons for a rough company, not realizing that better exists? And that's precisely how some of the lower bidded, lower price companies are continuing their existence, so it's in the best interests of veteran planters to help newer planters get away from those companies faster --- and that includes sharing information about good spots.

The entire camp starts on April 26th, though there is a pre-shift for available vets April 19th-23rd. The season starts in Alexis Creek, an hour and a bit west of Williams Lake. The contracts are Tolko and BCTS Williams Lake. Camp cost was the standard 25$.

Dynamic has 5 small camps of 20-30 planters. At the start of the season, two “separate camps” started in the same place, with Greg Uremevich's camp working on the BCTS work, and Jeff Flight's camp, which I was in, working on the Tolko work. Our camp stayed here for 6 shifts, one of which is a 3 day shift --- 23 planting days, which takes us to May 23rd or so.

The camp I was in had 3 six packs and one 12 pack, which I was on. On the 12 pack, only one person had planted for Dynamic before. The vets had an average experience of 6 or 7 years, with 5 years being the least experienced vet. We also had 3 rookies, one of which left during the first contract, and we had one other planter leave due to...well, he was 50+, and having a bit of trouble despite planting 8-12 years..well, he sorta said different things every time you talked to him...

One 6 pack had one rookie, the next had no rookies, and the next had 2 rookies. So total in camp is 6/30 rookies. Of the 24 vets, 12 or 13 had planted with Dynamic before. Average experience was probably in the 5-7 year range across the camp. 18/30 of the camps original people were there on the last day of the season (74 days later). 3 were rookie drop, and the rest were a variety of reasons, but as far as I know, nobody left to plant elsewhere. Our camp was 5-6/30 women.

Greg's camp, which we were with, had 24 people, of whom 12-15 had planted with Dynamic before, and 6-7 rookies. Also, incredible gender balance, at 13/24 women, I think. The camp had 7 dogs or so.

The first contract for Tolko was plagued with long drives; 1 hour was short, and the longest were 2 hours. Leave at 7am, planting at 9am, leave at 5pm, back in camp at 7pm. Made for some exceptionally long days, and made it a bit harder to make money. Tolko is looking for a north-side obstacle plant, no kick closes (hand only, though they relented on this on tougher ground pretty swiftly). Pricing was generally 13-17 cents, with some slightly higher, and the money was pretty good. I think it would have been a perfectly priced contract had the camp been ~45 minutes closer to all the blocks --- it almost felt as if it was bid and priced before they figured out where the camp was placed --- but either way, it was good enough to compare well to anywhere else I'd worked. Short days + good prices kept things reasonable, but had the drives just been a bit shorter, they could have been awesome. We also saw lots of truck problems early on (3-4 flats, a coolant leak, power loss) which slowed down the start, but once we got them all out of the way with at the start, we had no trouble the rest of the season.

We also did some BCTS to help Greg's camp out, including these awful 12-13 cent trenches which one of the 3 owners later admitted was possibly a mistake – in a shift, there were ~14 planter days lost to injury – the block was solid rock in a particularly amazing way.
The first contracts food was a bit hit and miss, too. A new-to-the-bush cook...it wasn't the worst I've had planting, but it was rough enough that people had issues sometimes. Interestingly, at Dynamic, the cooks stay in one place more or less and the camps rotate, so when we went to Smithers, we got a new cook.

The weather in Williams Lake was awesome though. We saw challenging rain exactly once (right at the end of the contract). The rest was scattered showers, and many days were sunny or overcast in the 10-15 degree range, which was totally awesome --- not the freezing rain I'd come to expect from the early season, possibly because the Chilcotin area is just at north end of a dry belt, if I'm remembering my geography correctly.

The Smithers contract was for HFP. It had shorter drives (15-45 minutes), which was miraculous after the Williams Lake work. I feel like pricing was done in a very similar way, but we were able to plant 9-10 hours instead of 7-8, so without increasing the pricing/land difficulty at all, the money was better. And the new cook was flat-out amazing.

We worked steady 4 and 1's on this contract for over a month, until the end of June. This is too long, and we're all tired --- injury numbers go up, and people get snappier. The money is exactly where it should have been, but we had 7 days off at the end of this contract, and 1 or 2 of them definitely could have been/should have been moved up. Logistics weren't perfect, either, but everything was pretty darn good.

We also did a bit of the BCTS Smithers work, which wasn't quite as good as the HFP work, but still decent. The last shift we did a 5 day push, I think because the BCTS Smithers work had a due date of June 29th, a due date we all wish we could have pushed for a little more rest. Either way, this contract goes well, with the main problem being fatigue. The 6 day break we had was pretty awesome, too, corresponding with Smither's Midsummer music festival, then a bunch of us went hiking in the Babine Provincial park, which was possibly the coolest thing I've ever done.

Our last contract was in McKenzie, for BCTS McKenzie. The logging road there is crazily busy and dusty, and very dangerous. Also, this contract was very hot for us, as you might expect for a July contract, and money wasn't quite as good as the previous contract, but again, as you might expect for July work.

Dynamic poaches and hires from all over for this contract; Celtic, Spectrum, Evergreen, Hybrid 17, A&G. The first and last contract has a couple people doing everyone's dishes, which I think Jordan Tesluk finds health concern, but the middle camp does the much less annoying “do your own” situation.

The season runs 74 days for our camp, only 2 of which are partial days. Other Dynamic camps hit 80 days from end of April to start of August. We run 24 day months (perfect 4 and 1's, basically), in May and June, and a full 20 in July, plus a few in April and a few in August.

The money was pretty variable, but overall was better than anything I've ever seen. I think there are probably a couple better 60-70 day May-June-July companies out there: Corsair, possibly, from rumours, Artisan, maybe, depending on preference, and Zanzibar, who really offers only 40 days to most of their planters but has a bit more for the chosen few that have been loyalists.

I also think you're quite likely to make better money day for day for 30-40 days with a good south interior company; but you're going to work a much shorter season, or you're going to do hopping around, and it's a questions of your connection and resourcefulness if that's worth more or not. But ultimately, going with Dynamic is going to produce a solid and strong season. I've also heard rumours that our camp was the loaded one, but either way, I suspect that Dynamic is a strong shot for any planter in the 2-5 year range who isn't running on a 30-40 day South Interior track.

Dynamic was diligent about safety, best demonstrated --- we had an encounter with a grizzly. They pulled us from that block and put us somewhere else. Nobody went back to that block. There was a grizzly in the area. Quality expectations were slightly tougher than other north interior companies I've worked for, but not coastal tough. We did a bit of fert, a bit of fill, a bit of prep, a bit of obstacle plant, a it of burns, a bit of steep, a bit of heli --- a variety that really catered to someone like me. We worked standard 7am leave times and 5pm quits. Trees were loaded the night before, which avoided one of my pet peeves (wasting time at the reefer in the morning) (though I did have to....encourage....my foreman a little some nights).

Every conversation I had with Jeff Flight, which was admittedly not many, resulted in me having slightly more respect for him than I had prior to speaking to him, which is a good trait for a supervisor to have. Things were by no means perfect, but they were consistently good enough, and they were consistently better than anything I'd ever seen --- sometimes only slightly, and sometimes by a wide margin.

And so for the first time, I'm going back to a company for their interior season deliberately, with optimism.

Feel free to ask me to fill out any detail you want, and it's likely I will.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:53 pm

Mike wrote:Dynamic Review:

Dynamic poaches and hires from all over for this contract; Celtic, Spectrum, Evergreen, Hybrid 17, A&G. The first and last contract has a couple people doing everyone's dishes, which I think Jordan Tesluk finds health concern, but the middle camp does the much less annoying “do your own” situation.
.

Not an issue, as long as they are washing them properly. You just have to stick to the 4-step process (wash, rinse, bleach, dry). I just might have weaseled out of dishes claiming tendonitis once...:)

East · Post by **East** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:22 am

Richianity wrote:
thatguy wrote:how their prices were super high and everyone had a great time
and everyone got BJ's from the checker, and all the girls planted topless, and midday everyone would hold hands and have a sing-along....

couldn't help myself

richianity.blogspot.com

Sounds like a buncha lowballers

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:26 pm

I think I trust tired planters to take 1 minute to do one set of dishes well while being unpaid for labour a lot more than I trust tired planters to take 60 minutes to do 60 sets of dishes well while being unpaid for labour...

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:26 pm

Dynamic 2013:

I again worked in Jeff's camp. I planted for Greg.

We worked first in Williams Lake, then in Smithers.

There was 1 planting day in April, 24 in May (perfect 4 and 1's) and 23 days (I believe --- I left slightly early because I had 100 days in and needed a break before my July-August contract) in June. The was then a week gap and a couple shifts of work in July for a small portion of the company. The camp was three six packs and a 12 pack, though if I recall correctly, not much of the season actually had 30 people on the blocks between injuries and empty seats.

One of the biggest problems with the season is that all season long, they said there'd be work all July in Gran Isle, but somewhere around the end of June, it came out that there was only July work for a couple shifts and it's in Fort St John, and only for a small portion of the vets. In particular, this was problematic for a rookie or two that had flown across the country for a 2 month season thinking they'd get a 3 month season. Another big problem is wildly inconsistent planting; you could go from making 400$ one day to 200$ the next and they'd consider that totally normal: there is a strong culture of complacency.

Experience wise; the 12 pack had planters with 3 rookies, 4 in the 2-4 year range, and 3 in the 5+ year range with the foreman at 10ish years I think. One six pack was 2 rookies, a pair with 5-6 years and one person with 3. The next 6 pack was 2 in the 5+ range, 2 in the 15+ range and one in the 10+ range, and the 6 pack I was on was a trio of 2nd year planters and the other three at 6-7-8 years. So quick aggregate puts that in the: 5 rookies, 5 people with 2-4 years, and 10 in the 5-10 range, and ~6-7 in the 10+ years range. So a reasonably experienced camp. The camp average for the first 1.5 months was almost certainly around 300$, and then for the last two weeks somewhere between 190-250$. Going through my journal and posting day numbers as I have them.

On the other hand, the company had very few returning vets from 2012. The 12 pack had 3 (a rookie + foreman and one more?), one six pack had just the foreman, another six pack had 4 and the six pack I was on had 3 --- including the foremen. So 7/26 planters + 4 foreman.

Camp was a typical mess tent-shitters-shower trailer set up. The showers consistently worked exceptionally poorly for the first 3 weeks or so, with low pressure or no heat, but eventually got working well for the last 5 weeks of the season. There was a dry tent, but they'd only run it for 2-3 hours a night, which meant it mostly made things warm and moist.

The season started with a couple of fill plants 2 meter minimums and a density of 10's, which is, of course, relatively little leeway for 15 cents. Then we did partially burned blocks --- most of the small trees were still standing, and you had to push through them, but the soil was super nice and it was pretty easy going for 12.5 cents. Some of the blocks were slightly poorly mapped out and occasionally super confusing as a result because you didn't really have visibility further than 5-10 meters. The checker ostensibly really cared about screefing and people not using flagging, both of which didn't really get followed all that much, because the checker was more interested in talking about food and joking around than actually checking.

There were lots of problems with trucks this year; flats, dead batteries, random engine issues; more than I've seen at any other company. Possibly due to consistently long drives (1hr+) on logging roads --- the Williams Lake work seems to have the longest drives I've seen for camp shows (but not hotel shows). The early season was super hot --- Williams Lake, I think, is.

There is lots of typical unpaid before and after work; loading trees in the morning (or the evening), setting up/tearing down camp, unloading and stacking garbage, loading garbage, 1-1.5 hours of kitchen duty every 2-3 shifts, that sort of thing. The stuff you usually get at large companies --- but it, of course, is in the tree price. They also did Day off and camp moves in the same day a few times, which were consistently less restful than you'd think. They'd say “Well, it's not really a day off” but if it's a work day, why am I not making any money?

We then do a shift of BCTS work. They like the “unbundle 1 bundle at a time” rule, which of course, no one ever does, so it flabberghasts me that checkers still say it. We get to a fill plant where they say to respect everything above 5 centimeters. The block is literally a carpet 5-10 centimeter of germinants, so there is no point in planting any of it. As the checker walks through, this hilarious frenchman on my crew seriously walks up and is like “I'm confused about where I am supposed to plant.” Every place the checker tried to point to as plantable actually had a barely-noticeable germinant.

We got pulled from the block and made basically a half days income for 12 hours portal to portal --- which was at least somewhat common. We did trenches the afternoon and next day; fert every other tree for 14 cents, which was pretty good. Then we got sent back to the fill plant and told to respect nothing under 10 centimeters, which translated to nothing, making it excellent.

Based on the crews numbers, I'm reasonably confident that my foreman was making ~400$/day. One of the foreman removed trees from peoples tallies when there was overtallies, which of course, is illegal, but since it's trivial numbers (usually 1-2 bundles a shift) nobody cares.

There is a day in here where 43 planters + 8 foreman (7 six packs and one twelve pack) put in 56000 trees ---an average of 1100 at 19 cents = ~210$. We were basically planting an alder forest with a 2 hour drive and hour walk in. Dynamic is one of those companies where there is a culture of complacency --- “Of course you're wages will fluctuate wildly and cut in half randomly! That's what planting is about!”

One of the foremen becomes hard to work with --- when we're supposed to be sharing a quad, he quads in trees for his crew but not ours. Later he says he's almost done a block and shows up to camp 3 hours later on a half day. It definitely was good examples of commissioned foremen looking to make an extra buck by screwing around another crew; and none of his crew returned from 2012 --- a bunch of them planted for other foremen or companies, due to finding him to be a bit creamy when he did plant. Later in the season there was also the experience of joining him on blocks cut up the creamy way. Another foreman has a tendency to yell angrily when things don't go the way they want. At least a good chunk of why I didn't return to Dynamic is not enjoying interacting with any of the forepeople other than my own, who was admittedly top notch.

We then moved to the better contract, HFP. The HFP work is consistently the best thing I've seen in the North Interior thus far (and is a large part of what keeps Hybrid-17 running, as well). Shorter drives, too, which helps mitigate the truck problems, though the truck we were in ripped through another battery, leaking battery acid all over (which I believe happened twice). During this contract, everyone was encouraged to try to be in camp by 6pm for rest and safety reasons, but once we started working the BCTS in the area, everyone was encouraged to go until 7pm, which was a little inconsistent --- it was mostly to attempt to conceal how much wages were going down on the BCTS work. The only problem with the HFP work is that most of the blocks are slashy and soft and super workable and well priced, but a small subset of them are terribly rocky as well, and they never boost the price more than 0.5 cents for that --- which means people often are injuring themselves pounding through rock to attempt to keep their numbers up. There is also hilarious inconsistency in the “You have to take the good with the bad, pricing wise” speech --- I ask if that's acceptable for quality and their answer is “No, you've just got to take the good for that.” Typical shit-flows-down-hill hypocrisy.

The first 2 shifts of HFP the camp plants 400kish trees with somewhere near 180 planter days and 32 foreman days --- call the 32 foreman days 25 planter days; 400k/205 = 1950 per planter per day; at 14 cents that's 278$, at 14.5 that's 283$ --- plus the foreman 14%, which means the camp average is probably somewhere pretty close to 300$, depending on exactly how the foremen tree math works out.

There then was a few days of hideously underpriced barge work; a 2.5 hour trip to plant a 7-10 year old forest for snow pressed tops for 16 cents. Hilariously, they realized it was terribly priced; so for the 3rd day, when only half the camp went back, they gave us 18 cents for it --- but not for the first couple days. Another foreman is deceptive about how much is left in their section, to avoid being sent back, as it was obviously a substantial pay hit even with a 2 cent bump.

Then we work BCTS work, where the camp average goes from somewhere near 300$ to somewhere near 200$. The supervisor admits we plant “26k less than normal” --- the previous contract we were doing between 55k and 65k a day (we gained a 6 pack a couple shifts in) which puts the BCTS contract at 30-50k for 30 planters; averages of 1000-1666 at prices of 60% 12.5 cents and 40% 16 cents = 13.9ish cents, ~140$-231$ average earnings. Later we get told we planted 60k less in the previous shift than normal; 210k to 250k is normal, that means putting in 150k-190k. With ~130 planting days in that shift (with injuries/foreman worked in at reduced rate), that's an average between 1153 and 1461, at a mix of 12.5 and 16 cents = an average between 145$ and 234$.

To say the BCTS work was obviously problematic would be a dramatic understatement. Equally problematic was during the BCTS contract, our crews highballer's best day was around 300$ --- a rookie from another crew PB'ed at 325$ on a block we later planted the back of --- the front, which we walked past, was obviously cream, and the back was an aldur forest on a 45 minute walk in for the same price. Said crew highballer made ~170$ that day.

Which was about the point where I decided I needed a break before moving to Alberta and left. The supervisor, when I left, said proudly “I've worked thousands of terribly priced blocks where I made basically no money! That's what treeplanting is about!”

About a dozen other people in the camp wished that they had the financial means to quit with me. At this point I had 95 days of work in, and went and did another 25ish for Little Smokey.

Overall:
Dynamic is probably in the top 5 when it comes to north interior companies; up there with Artisan, Torrent, Corsair, Hybrid-17, and probably others I don't know about.

Their pricing is good ~80% of the time and terrible ~20% of the time, of which there is rarely any inbetween. The chef, Shylah, is amazing, though. Almost work working there for that alone. Long days, unpaid extra-non-planting work, a culture of complacency, foremen that try to screw other crews for a few extra bucks, and a shit-flows-down-hill attitude with a “we'll, what do you expect us to do? Raise the prices? Inconceivable” philosophy. The foreman have actively deceptive advertising, with a foreman saying at the start of this season “I think there is about 90-100 planters. Average price is about 16cents” on 16 million trees. That's 160000-178000 trees a planter, for season earnings of ~26000$-29000$: assuming company average is 300$/day, that's an 85-96 day season (work days). Assuming standard 4 and 1's, you're at 21 to 24 cycles, taking 105 to 120 days: 3.5 to 4 months. May1st-August15th, nothing but 4 and 1's, or longer, if it's 90, not 100. Assuming a company average of 400$, that's merely 65-73 days of work; doable with a standard 22-24 days of work per month in just over 3 months. Think it happened? No? Flabberghasting. Vacationpay/stat holiday pay included in tree price, of course.

In any other industry, given the business practices, labour laws violated, and behaviour of the people involved, I would expect this company to be bottom of the barrel. Despite all that, I think they're possibly the best of the north interior, and exceptionally likely in the top 5.

That is messed up. And if you can't tell from the review, I'm done with the North Interior, and on my way out of planting. It's a fucktonne more honest than any of my previous reviews.

creamshow · Post by **creamshow** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:06 pm

What happened? Is there anybody that was there around 5 years ago or so when things changed that wants to share? Different divisions in companies like this are totally different (there are still good shows) and Dynamic is still probably just a step up from the mills. I was in a few different camps 2 seasons ago and was surprised by the 13.5 cent trees and little consideration for planters..

creamshow · Post by **creamshow** » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:25 pm

and on another note, due to the foreman commission system there was a lot of unpaid labor with this company in my experience. foreman and subsequently planters are all expected to 'volunteer' to load their trucks with trees. and what happens on snow days or camp moves? foreman might have to show a lot of initiative to get payed for that time.