Zanzibar's Merritt show - seeking feedback

[TheDain]

Dragged my heels applying, and now it seems Zanzibar wants to send me to Merritt. I've heard nothing but negatives from those I know who've worked this contract in the past and those who've worked in Merritt recently. Does anybody disagree with these friends' assessments? Are you of the opinion that this particular Merritt contract isn't 'going downhill.' If so, I'd love to read your comments. If not, I'd love to read your comments.
Just having a heck of a time deciding if this is what I really want to do....
I hear they "screef" - while I was taught to give even mineral "two good boot scuffs," I haven't partaken in screefing for some time and don't think I could go back. Dealbreaker for Merritt?
I've always mocked those who return to bad companies to be with their 'friends' - as if nobody at a good company would be worthy of friendship...and yet, I feel strangely compelled to go back to my old job at my old (though good) company simply because I get permanent shotgun and control over the music.

[Slash Monkey]

dude, it's all good. don't worry. zanzi is the best company in the business period. i've never worked on tony's side but a couple of good friends were there last season and said nothing but good things.

[the_dude]

Hey Dain, we seem to be in the same boat, any chance your on the island, or at least west of merritt at the moment? perhaps we could roll together, at minimum cheaper greyhound if they still do that companion deal.

[Mr. Amazing]

There's a bad school of checking out there in Merritt, with way too much humming and hawing over "depth", "size and quality of screefs", etc. Zanzibar has had low-balled work in the past (like Revelstoke), but they've been in Merritt for years so who knows. I'd say this year "the devil you know" might be your best bet...

[Tommy10]

Zanzibar's an amazing company, I've worked for them a few times, on Tony's side, never in Merrit. But they are top notch in every aspect of planting, great people, high prices, amazing foremen, 3-1's, good times all around. Where else do you hear of planters having $1200 days? Definitely one of the best in the business.

[jdtesluk]

Workers in this industry have only had their conditions worsened by exaggerations of their earnings. Foresters have had associates come back from the bar and tell them about what the planters were blabbing about earning, and used it as justification for lowering contract prices. There's always some blowhard that has a good shift and starts going off about his or her "average" like its some part of their anatomy. It does nobody any favours when the reports are grossly exaggerated. It is too easy to take a word form loose lips out of context, and negelct the other 2-hundy days that average out the biggies, or the limited window of earnings, or the extreme cost to the body. As for 1200 days, maybe Duff or someone crept up there on a hectare block some years ago or got rewarded for years of service with a special day, but it would be pure folly to think people are making that kind of cake on anything other than a random fluke occasion. I put in 12 yrs with them myself, kept up with the top quarter of the company, and hovered around a third of what was claimed. Not saying it didn't happen cause they have some of the best planters I have ever met, definitely tonnes of hall-of-famers. However, the only person I ever saw break a K was a guy named Jed on his last day of work, when Tony offered to match whatever anyone else wanted to plant for Jed on that one day. Needless to say he was a bit shocked by the crew's genorosity (or Jed's popularity?), and Jed made a nice total that day. However in the long run I personally have averaged similar wages at good gigs in other places. The Loch Ness Money serves only to dissapoint those who show up to find that prices are surprisingly similar all around when you factor in quality demands.

THe key to Zanzibar's good rep is their leadership (and exceptional organization and work ethic). Tony is one of the most respected employers in the industry, both by his employees and his peers. He was instrumental in the development of legislation to ensure minimum standards for silviculture workers in camps and in pay- what does that tell you?. Gord Saunders has made a similarly meaningful contribution to the industry, and is simply one of the best people I've ever worked for. The supervisors are incredible people. Sylvia is the one of the best supervisors I have ever met, and it is little wonder that she is directly involved in the development of leadership courses for the industry. If we could bottle her personality and skills, noone would ever complain about this job (well, almost no one). That takes nothing away from Tom (the human quad), Jeff (the human Ipod) and Bob (who Sylvia claims to have learned all from). They are all exceptional people and supers in their own styles, and I feel lucky to have spent time with them in the field.

Oh, the general aim now is 3-1, 3-1, 4-2 to give 10 days of work per two-week rotation and every second weekend off. I think they go 3-1 straight in the Flats. I would say if offred a spot, there are few better places to plant. Not saying they're the end-all be-all cause there are different ways to evaluate a company and many great companies to work for, just saying that they're right up there in my books.

[TheHamsterizer]

Workers in this industry have only had their conditions worsened by exaggerations of their earnings. Foresters have had associates come back from the bar and tell them about what the planters were blabbing about earning, and used it as justification for lowering contract prices. There's always some blowhard that has a good shift and starts going off about his or her "average" like its some part of their anatomy. It does nobody any favours when the reports are grossly exaggerated. It is too easy to take a word form loose lips out of context, and negelct the other 2-hundy days that average out the biggies, or the limited window of earnings, or the extreme cost to the body. As for 1200 days, maybe Duff or someone crept up there on a hectare block some years ago or got rewarded for years of service with a special day, but it would be pure folly to think people are making that kind of cake on anything other than a random fluke occasion. I put in 12 yrs with them myself, kept up with the top quarter of the company, and hovered around a third of what was claimed. Not saying it didn't happen cause they have some of the best planters I have ever met, definitely tonnes of hall-of-famers. However, the only person I ever saw break a K was a guy named Jed on his last day of work, when Tony offered to match whatever anyone else wanted to plant for Jed on that one day. Needless to say he was a bit shocked by the crew's genorosity (or Jed's popularity?), and Jed made a nice total that day. However in the long run I personally have averaged similar wages at good gigs in other places. The Loch Ness Money serves only to dissapoint those who show up to find that prices are surprisingly similar all around when you factor in quality demands.

THe key to Zanzibar's good rep is their leadership (and exceptional organization and work ethic). Tony is one of the most respected employers in the industry, both by his employees and his peers. He was instrumental in the development of legislation to ensure minimum standards for silviculture workers in camps and in pay- what does that tell you?. Gord Saunders has made a similarly meaningful contribution to the industry, and is simply one of the best people I've ever worked for. The supervisors are incredible people. Sylvia is the one of the best supervisors I have ever met, and it is little wonder that she is directly involved in the development of leadership courses for the industry. If we could bottle her personality and skills, noone would ever complain about this job (well, almost no one). That takes nothing away from Tom (the human quad), Jeff (the human Ipod) and Bob (who Sylvia claims to have learned all from). They are all exceptional people and supers in their own styles, and I feel lucky to have spent time with them in the field.

Oh, the general aim now is 3-1, 3-1, 4-2 to give 10 days of work per two-week rotation and every second weekend off. I think they go 3-1 straight in the Flats. I would say if offred a spot, there are few better places to plant. Not saying they're the end-all be-all cause there are different ways to evaluate a company and many great companies to work for, just saying that they're right up there in my books.

The 3-1,3-1,4-2 is the wave of the future, and I'm jealous of anyone who gets that schedule. I bet every interior company will be doing it in a couple of years. Good points about the 'averages' too... I make a point not to believe anyone's so called 'average' outside of maybe a half dozen of my friends. It's a number steeped in denial; sometimes I can convince myself that my average is higher than it really is... But you get the check and you realize you were slightly off. And as for Merritt, well... I don't know how people make money in the Okanagan anymore, the quality is pretty nuts and the ground is rooty and rocky. I'm not really a specialist at that style of planting, but I did it for a couple of years and never understood how you could make much without killing yourself every day. Dried out, rooty grassmatt... Making the hole is such a bitch, and wears you out so fast. Physically I found it the hardest of all planting, it really grinds your joints. I always thought that the client demanded more than they deserved in the okanagan. apparently the leader contract was a bust too, and they're usually pretty good.

[Mr. Amazing]

Nothing in Merritt is a 'slamfest' these days, which is too bad. The only good work from what I've heard is the stuff for the Douglas Lake Ranch. Leader did it in the past, but not sure who does it now.

[Slash Monkey]

ya, the 3-1's are the best thing going. totally enables you to go hard the full 3 days with no burn out. for me, it's the perfect time cycle for work and recovery. i'm pretty sure it's straight 3-1's for all the shows. we had one or two 4-2's last season but just at the end when people were starting to burn out or we were waiting for a reefer delivery.

[krahn]

yeah i'm jealous of that schedule as well. it took many years for the companies i worked with to finally start sticking to 4-1's, but i've loved 3 day shifts when i could get them.

as for the posting on exaggerated earnings, besides the fact that people probably should go bragging to the commoner or especially the checker about their best days (i once had a dick checker on the fastest ground ever calculate the time it took between trees, on his calculator, and construe that i was making 6 figures a summer, and he made sure that he kept us below 250 a day from that point on) i'd just like to point out that almost everybody exaggerates earning averages. which makes it very hard to gauge the differences between companies. people look at the "average" of the full days or even just the best contracts, or sometimes yet just what they hear about and assume it's greater than it is. rarely do people take part days into consideration and get a true marker of what you can make with them. wildwoods puts it right on their website and that's accurate, but for the most part i'll take everything said with a grain of salt.

i do appreciate more professional environments where there's little need to know what everybody else is making. but i've only seen that on the coast.

[jono]

...

[krahn]

ah, interesting. and at the end of the season of yours when i came by, the camp was making more than the average, but i assumed that was just because of the season's worth of practice as well as trying to finish strong. although at that pace i don't know how most of you managed to stay in one piece for that many days.

[salbrecher]

I planted Merritt last year with Zanzibar. Having worked for 6 different companies, Zanzibar, (i've worked for both Tony and Gord and both are top notch) Zanzibar is by faaaaar the best i've worked for.

Zanzibar also now has 2 different contracts in Merritt with 2 different prices and quality. Stu ix and tolko. Merritt with Zanzibar will be as good or better than any other company in Merritt IMO and having talked with other people there at different companies and the supervisor at A&G. How good it is will depend on what type of ground you like to plant. There are two different prices for raw and trenched. I disliked the raw because of the screefing (only in grass) and having to have holes kicked tight and I would not make as much money. IMO, the raw price outside of the trenches or mounds on the outside of your piece did not make up for how much slower they were. However many people would prefer whole pieces of raw and just had a better technique for it than I. That said, there was a large amount of very good fast raw ground. The trenches could be anywhere from amazing to not very good and prices would change accordingly. I worked on both Stuix and Tolko and preffered the stuix because it was higher prices for having to plant better quality but in my opinion easier ground (obstical planting in trenches).

Merritt ground also changes over the course of the season and prices change to reflect that. Early season trenches and mounds and the raw is softer because the snow has just melted and there is more moisture in the ground. Later it becomes harder and can be harder on your body.

So, is it "good" will depend on what type of ground you like planting. I found Merritt ground challenging for me due to its inconsistancy and it was hard on my body having to screef (shovel is easier on the body but harder to screef a better spot) sometimes and kick holes closed to get the desired tightness in the raw. Some of the trench was awsome and some was not. there are very few bugs and the weather is great (warm but dry). Money was alright for me but not exceptional and maybe even a bit below my "average". The consistant ballers still make their $450-550 average in an 8hr day but say the contracts are not the dream show they used to be but are still "good" and better that most of the stuff out there.

If you have a chance to jump on with Zanzi i'd say do it for sure. Tony and Gord are great with allowing people flexability to move locations once you put ina bit of time. Top notch company with a very good average (not anything like those crazy stores people make up of $600 crew averages though, I wish!).

Jtesluk, Darren Duff had a $1000 day 2 years ago and got pretty close this year.

[salbrecher]

I just looked at my number sheets from last season. On the Tolko contract 75% of my days were at .14 cents (trench) with the other 25% .16, .17, .18, and .19 (raw or bad trench) evenly distributed. Stuix was 50% .16 (trench) and 50% .18 or .20 for (I think raw). The other thing I forgot to mention about Merritt was that the raw ground between treeline and the prep that has to be planted is not given a different price (if less than 10 or 20 % of the piece) and could sometimes significantly change my numbers for the day if it was a long piece with lots of treeline or a pocket. If 18ish% of my piece takes 30-50% slower than the rest of my piece then i'm spending 30% of my time in slow frustrating ground trying not to hurt my shoulders and knees.

As you probably know, opinions on contracts vary pretty widely even if you go to the contract and ask people their opinion of it. I found Merritt was no exception. Some love it (usually the ballers in this case) and some don't. I think in the case of Merritt either group of people would agree that Zanzibar is the best place they have ever worked. Tony also usually asks people on the coast where they want to go for spring so usually the people that don't like it wont go there and you'll only have to spend one season there.

[jdtesluk]

Jtesluk, Darren Duff had a $1000 day 2 years ago and got pretty close this year.

If anyone can do it, Duff can. Truly one of the best this industry has seen. Duff has one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen in a human or animal. Probably could have been an Olympic athlete if he had focused himself on a sport other than planting. Bushpro used to seek out Duff's advice on equipment modifications. Should probably add him to the Hall of Fame on Chisholm's page.

[TheHamsterizer]

The other thing I forgot to mention about Merritt was that the raw ground between treeline and the prep that has to be planted is not given a different price (if less than 10 or 20 % of the piece) and could sometimes significantly change my numbers for the day if it was a long piece with lots of treeline or a pocket. If 18ish% of my piece takes 30-50% slower than the rest of my piece then i'm spending 30% of my time in slow frustrating ground trying not to hurt my shoulders and knees.

Yeah, site prep is a joke in the okanagan, I've never seen trenches so far apart.

[Slash Monkey]

Jtesluk, Darren Duff had a $1000 day 2 years ago and got pretty close this year.

If anyone can do it, Duff can. Truly one of the best this industry has seen. Duff has one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen in a human or animal. Probably could have been an Olympic athlete if he had focused himself on a sport other than planting. Bushpro used to seek out Duff's advice on equipment modifications. Should probably add him to the Hall of Fame on Chisholm's page.

ya, good ole duffers. any time you think you had an epic day, duff has you by at least $150.

[krahn]

who's this Duff? great planting name! some twenty year vet who grew up in a planting camp?