Brinkman and Associates

replant · Post by **replant** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:33 am

This thread is devoted to gossip and discussion for employees and stakeholders of Brinkman and Associates.

This company is believed to work predominantly in British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario.

Their last known contact information is:

520 Sharpe Street,
New Westminister, BC, V3M 4R2
Phone: (604) 521-7771

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:45 am

This company has a website at:

http://www.brinkmanforest.com

subliminalinertia · Post by **subliminalinertia** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:40 pm

woohoo, go brinkman.

its an institution.

its a family.

no, its a dutch mafia!

hah. kidding. really.

kozak · Post by **kozak** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:54 pm

Somebody if those guys are a good company to work with on the coast?? It's gonna be my first year on the coast and I never have plant with them, I just want to have, you know, a comment or something like:
Yes, it's a good company
or
DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!

Thanks!!

daleks · Post by **daleks** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:28 am

took a look at some of Brinkmans bids....in Seaward, they bid against Zanzibar ( $1,642,000 ), Osprey ($ 564,000 ), Brinkman ( $489,000 )-----in Grand Forks, they bid against A & G ( $521,000 ), Greenpeaks ( $513,000), Brinkman ( $427,000 ). it's a race to the bottom......guess who's leading the way.....when they tried this race to the bottom a few years back, the provincial government bailed them out with a $2,000,000 grant......so you gotta make up your own mind whether you want to work for this company.

subliminalinertia · Post by **subliminalinertia** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:13 pm

hmm . thats interesting. i've never heard it that way before.

my experience with brinkman is that you don't necessarily get as high a tree price as you might get with a smaller company with less overhead, but whereas with that smaller company you might spend a significant amount of time waiting for trees, walking for free, or generally wasting time in other ways, brinkman is organized and efficient. so you end up making a lot more money in the end, just cause you're always working, rarely fucking the dog, unless you're just bent that way.
they also really focus on quality, and the whole crew-planting thing makes the forman/checking/treerunning stuff so much simpler... and once you learn how to do it (caus you do actually have to LEARN how, it isn't the same as area planting, and area planters are usually really shitty crew planters) it is actually a lot more fun and you work faster cause you are more motivated and not lonely. more community.
and they feed us well... and camps are decent.

but then, that's just my experience.. and i've only worked on... 4 different brinkman crews... which is far from being all of them...
so whatever.

the whole underbidding thing is kinda weird though. i didn't know about that.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:12 pm

i thought crew planting was fun too until i finally discovered the ipod, now i'd rather be left alone! i do know that people can do alright planting in a group if they all learn to work together, but if you're faster than the rest and have a really efficient system, especially in overgrown blocks, there's not way you can get quite as much covered as if you're by yourself as long as you stay motivated.

brinkman seems like a good company especially considering their size, just not the most profitable one.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:39 am

subliminalinertia wrote:hmm . thats interesting. i've never heard it that way before.

my experience with brinkman is that you don't necessarily get as high a tree price as you might get with a smaller company with less overhead, but whereas with that smaller company you might spend a significant amount of time waiting for trees, walking for free, or generally wasting time in other ways, brinkman is organized and efficient. so you end up making a lot more money in the end, just cause you're always working, rarely fucking the dog, unless you're just bent that way.
they also really focus on quality, and the whole crew-planting thing makes the forman/checking/treerunning stuff so much simpler... and once you learn how to do it (caus you do actually have to LEARN how, it isn't the same as area planting, and area planters are usually really shitty crew planters) it is actually a lot more fun and you work faster cause you are more motivated and not lonely. more community.
and they feed us well... and camps are decent.

but then, that's just my experience.. and i've only worked on... 4 different brinkman crews... which is far from being all of them...
so whatever.

the whole underbidding thing is kinda weird though. i didn't know about that.

I would disagree with parts of this post based on what I've seen and from speaking with other Brinkman planters. Brinkman to me is the model of corporate hierarchy in planting gone wrong. My experience is with their Ontario operations for two seasons so I can say nothing for their coastal work, but in addition to low prices I found that the large camps, huge number of rookies, and high staff turnover rate basically created an environment of perpetual logistical confusion.

We moved camps without getting permits, then got kicked off, we could never seem to coordinate our fire standards properly, getting kicked off the block for that to. I can clearly remember waiting on trees for hours at a time, as two-three runners were responsible for 85 people and were working with bad equipment. With the turnover in staff cliques started to develop where the few staff with prior ties to the supervisor received preferential treatment, and the list goes on for me.

Also I really have a problem with their vehicular safety. A lot of adjectives like idiotic, reckless, negligent come to mind when I think about that company.

The King of Nowhere · Post by **The King of Nowhere** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:26 am

Had the pleasure of working Grand Forks with about 8 people around July with Marc as our Foreman. It was 30 000 tree contract...or 45000 cant remember....16 cents. We were at 2000 meters at a mountaintop, which was great considering it was almost 40C in GF at the motel. 2 hour drive-in blowed. No first aid kit for a bit...had to lend mine. The crew planting was an interesting concept....something im not used to..and not useful in the circumstances we were in (HUGE BLOCK). But...like....why should i have to walk back to my cache after getting to the top of this block....like...why not cut pieces for goodness sakes?
Split the block and crew in half.....me and buddy had to bag up HUGE in order to fill the top...and no one else did...the concept of teamwork that crewplanting needs faltered many times....

...i think i see a way out of this....

I have a feeling that Brinkman is a fairly inflexible company when it comes to say....just some things. I dont understand why i have to use one type of flagging only, and i have to flag all the time. sort of stuff that isn't really questioned because its the way they've always done it.

BUT i will say this. RWA=awesome. Pay=great. Organized=hell yeah (phoned the head office, hooked up work in 30 minutes). Played Volleyball with the checkers after we finished the contract.

burbster · Post by **burbster** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:56 am

Summer 2008-BCTS in Mackenzie is letting Brinkman check their own trees!! Sweeeet!

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:58 pm

Actually, it is fairly common for various licensees or BCTS to allow contractors to perform their own plotting/quality checking. However, with that comes responsibilities ... the contractor still has to prove that they are meeting acceptable standards, and the licensee/BCTS will go in and do audit plots to ensure that the contractor isn't letting their planters just slam shit everywhere.

robin2008 · Post by **robin2008** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:22 am

seeing those bid prices make me HATE brinkman more thane ever!

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:53 am

worked for the Shutters! have known them personally for many years. I worked for them at the ripe age of 17 in my 2nd season. I Loved the crew planting. It seemed the blocks went quicker. I HAVE CONTINUED ON AND OFF with these guys. Great food, fun camp - I especially love the co-ed showers with no curtains- like the old days-!! it's more like a family.

muffin_man · Post by **muffin_man** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:09 pm

This is the best company in the world, period! We are big and mighty and have the best looking girls and prices anywhere! Love Ya Kats

Saffa · Post by **Saffa** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:28 pm

Awesome company, I would recomend it to any rookie out there, work for them the past two season's, got a job with them straight out the boat from South Africa, worked with Tim, Claud, Dom, Jabez, Andy and Drew, all great people, probley going back to them again this season, even though they screwed me out of a coastal job this spring... Still love them though
Stay away from their Drayton Valley contract, and if you ever get onto merrit with them you've struck gold, Im going there in may!
Any Brinkman people out there know of any coastal spots for me??

filipinoboxspringhog · Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:02 am

Stay away from their Drayton Valley contract,

oh no why? i'm heading there with Andy in may. i was in edson with him last july and it was decent. the land can't be that dissimilar.

Saffa · Post by **Saffa** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:56 pm

hey where you in Quesnal with andy too?? Andy's great, if anyone can make that contract work it's him, the problem is Weyerhaeuser, we got in tonnes of shit from them for stupid reasons, inexperienced checkers, going to blocks that had been planted two years before, blocks that hadn't been logged yet ect. The guy who supervised that contract isn't coming back this year, and very very few returning planters...
Hopefully it's better this year though, the last few shifts in July where pretty good...
Maybe il see you out there
Random South African guy

Reuben · Post by **Reuben** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:31 pm

Hey Dave, yeah I’m with Andy this summer too! I haven’t heard where he is yet but the rumour is Drayton Valley! Is that not where you quit and then came back last year?? Was it really that bad??

filipinoboxspringhog · Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:47 pm

hmmm. south africa eh, i guess you were one of the other fifty people at that camp i never really met..
in edson we worked for weyerhauser. we had just come from a really flexible contract in june so it was almost like being back in quesnel in terms of quality strictness. somehow the wayerhauser quality team came around to liking us though. they fucked up a lot and so maybe they felt guilty cause they bought us a case of wine for our last night in camp. there was one old guy that was especially rad...
anyway i do have faith in andy. i was with him all last summer and it was great. minus quesnel which was hectic as shit and the mosquito swamp we were camped beside for a month in FSJ, i have only fondest memories of the season.

Saffa · Post by **Saffa** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:31 pm

haha yeah that is where i quit and came back a week later, it was pretty shitty but after i came back my crew ended up in sweet land for the rest of the contract... I don't know, I had also been planting for 3 months before i went to Drayton, wasn't feeling it, so that probley had something to do with me hating it so much, also way to many rookie's that where just clueless for soooo bloody long. I found my center in those last few shifts and made a shit ton of money, i had a $550 day out there so its not all bad ey!!! So yeah, im sure it will be better this year, i might even be back in July if i can't find a longer season ells where... Have fun suckers:)

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:22 pm

I am also going with Andy! I was in Tims camp in drayton valley for july, and loved it! Hit a couple of really nice blocks.....but he is right about the checkers. Super-inexperienced, and a little silly at times. They were using f&#%ing protractors to see if our trees were leaners. Anyway, I'll see you guys in a couple months.

the_dude · Post by **the_dude** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:17 pm

Glad to hear drayton valley is still a shit show, i was there about 6 years ago with another company, and the checker, Debbie Raven if i recall correctly, was nuts, she would jump out of residuals to make sure your stock handling was to her exact specifications. She was so nuts that if one persons sponges weren't wet (but not to wet!) and all seedlings weren't touching the sponge, the entire crew would be off the block for the rest of the day, regardless of what time it was. we all just hid in the treeline when our crewboss would know ahead of time that she was coming. goddamn shit show. On the plus side the sunchild convenience store always had slurpees.

pirate17 · Post by **pirate17** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:25 am

did a bag up for then on the island in 97..raw fert in a film cannister for each tree ..sheeit show underbid and toxic

duderancher · Post by **duderancher** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm

I've worked for the BrinkMart for a long time. A few good contracts in BC (2 or 3 maybe), stay away from Ontario at all costs, you get paid on time, prices are lowish, supervisors overworked, lots of crews from Ontario have taken over in BC (eeeeK!). Coastal is all low-bid bottom feeding except for the odd boat show or Woss. What else do you want to know?

I'm still working for them on the remaining cream shows.

Drayton Valley is a Weyerhauser show and they are a company infamous for their hostile attitude towards silviculture contractors all over Canada.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:57 pm

I have worked for these guys at times durring four different seasons, 02, 04, 05 and 06, mostly on the coast, some interior and a bit in Alberta, always paid on time, prices were usually just good enough for me to stay. I have worked with a lot of good managers there, and overall enjoyed the experience.Drayton Valley sure does suck, but as previously stated that is because the job is for Weyco. chances are good I will work there again at some point.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:59 pm

so brinkman claims to have planted about 1 billion trees since 1970, and BC claims to have planted 6 billion. that makes brinkman responsible for about 17% of all the trees ever planted in BC. regardless of how you may feel about this outfit, you gotta give them respect for that.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:48 pm

mwainwright wrote:so brinkman claims to have planted about 1 billion trees since 1970, and BC claims to have planted 6 billion. that makes brinkman responsible for about 17% of all the trees ever planted in BC. regardless of how you may feel about this outfit, you gotta give them respect for that.

Uh no, you don't. Unless you "respect" McDonald's for selling billions of hamburgers too.

Saffa · Post by **Saffa** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:45 pm

Brinky is pretty good man, how many other companys can you get a 150+ day season with, each and every year?? Sure the prices sometimes suck, but from all acounts, prices are shit across the board. The boys in the office are always ready to move you around untill you find your nich, I've planted with 7 Brinkman supervisors over the past few years, and got on well with most of them, its a big fat happy family, the grass is always greener on the other side, but I think I'll stick with them because I know i'll get as long a season as I want for next year. ps Mc Donalds is god!!

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:11 pm

uh yes, you do. planting a billion trees is far more respectable than selling a billion hamburgers.

Richianity · Post by **Richianity** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:36 pm

From wikipedia:

"When the total reached 100 billion in 1993, the signs of this era were changed to display 99 billion permanently, as there was only room for two digits, though some signs use the "Billions and Billions Served" tagline."

100 billion burgers is an eff load of heart attacks!

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:00 am

Although I may stand corrected, I'm pretty sure that 1 billion trees is their Canada-wide number. So maybe a little over a quarter of those are in BC. 300 million would still be a lot - I've only supervised a little over 50 million in 20 years, but even to get 300 million in BC in the last thirty years would be 10 million a year. BC camps usually don't put in as many trees as camps on bigger contracts in Alberta, so that would be the equivalent of three full-size camps running in BC every year, doing over 3 million trees each, for the last thirty years. That probably sounds about right? They may have more BC camps, but some would be coastal where the numbers are lower.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:40 am

that makes more sense.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:23 pm

mwainwright wrote:uh yes, you do. planting a billion trees is far more respectable than selling a billion hamburgers.

McDonald's doesn't J-Root my burgers and I've never heard of their employees stashing Egg Mcmuffins. I respect the burgers more.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:26 pm

Nate wrote:
McDonald's doesn't J-Root my burgers and I've never heard of their employees stashing Egg Mcmuffins. I respect the burgers more.

one could say the same about most companies out there, I would find out a bit more about the history of the company you work and some of its employees before pointing those fingers! not an attack on you personaly but comments like that remind of black pots and glass houses

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:58 pm

Yeah Brinkman's far too big to generalize about. And any company that gets to a certain size is bound to have its share of problems with bad quality planters and stashing etc.

It just irks me to hear someone say you "have to respect Brinkman." Seems absurd to me.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:50 pm

any company that gets to a certain size is bound to have its share of problems with bad quality planters and stashing etc.

True.

Unfortunately, it happens in a lot of places, although I still think it is far less prevalent in Western Canada than in Ontario.
Fortunately, I think the prevalence of stashing is also declining now that GPS technology makes it so easy to measure the size of a piece.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:49 pm

Yes, well, technology has its limits. If the terminator planted there'd still be days when his foreman asked him how many boxes he had left and he'd say "only one, two max for sure"... and there'd be seven.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:20 pm

Silly Nate.

The Terminator's foreman should have read "The Art of Foremanning" by Silvi Tzu, and reacted accordingly. Which may or may not have included stabbing The Terminator through the drawbag hand with a survey stake soaked in Plantskydd, in punishment for unacceptable arithmetic skills.

Sometimes, the only option is Tough Love.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:03 pm

I don't think that stashing has gone down at all with the invention of GPS technology, I just think most of it flies under the radar because we are so busy dealing with other things. you just don't notice unless someone gets really gready about it or you practically trip over a stashed bundle. but this is really a conversation for a different thread
.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:43 am

i like to shit talk just about anybody or anything as much as the next guy, but i gotta give respect where its due. brinkman's got some crews that pay really well and run a really tight show. thats the essence of respectability in this business. you dont hear much about them because they dont have any trouble filling the few vacancies they may have on these crews from time to time.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:22 pm

brinkman's got some crews that pay really well and run a really tight show.

Most of the gossip that I've heard has been moderately positive for the west side, and pretty negative in Ontario. But that's all that is, gossip.

Saffa · Post by **Saffa** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:30 pm

Dont know anything about onterio and plan to keep it that way, but there are defently some good contracts over here on the westcoast, the coast is hit and miss, we normally move around quite a bit, do a bit of the shit and a bit of the cream, southern BC rocks, big money, northen BC hit and miss again, and suprisenly some pretty good shit in Alberta if you're willing to bend over three thousand times a day, wich I'm not, a few asshole tree runners in alberta too... But anyway, I've put in over 300 days with Brinky and its been a pretty damn good run!!

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:26 pm

Brinkmans pretty much hit and miss for their contracts. Worked a summer for them in 06 in Alberta. The Hinton contract was decent. Main problem was the rookie foreman (with all of 2 years planting experience and 2 weeks foremanning). Disorganized and didn't have a clue on what the planting specs required . I was a little PO'd after finding out on the last day of the contract that screefs weren't required as as our pinhead foreman had insisted.

Every other crew was doing straight duff plant. Still made close to $300 a day but it could have been so much better .

The planting days averaged about 12 hrs, you'd leave at 7am and get back at 7 pm . prices were 10 cents the ground was mostly soft and slashy. Camp costs were $27. the majority of the camp were university students from Ontario. Avg planter age was probably 20 years old with only a handful of planters with 2+ years experience.

After Hinton, camp was moved to Sundre. Planters took down and set up camp for free (3 days of work). Almost no one had vehicles, so it was hard for people to bail.

The Sundre contract was a gong show. 100+ planters in camp and 10 cents for screefing on rock hard cement. Our crew average was about $140/day and at least 2 people a day would quit. Some of the crew had planted a Brinkman contract near Cranbrook averaging $400+ a day and now couldn't get near $200. The workdays were even longer, we usually weren't getting back till at least 8 pm. And... every other day a reefer had to be unloaded after work before dinner was served.

As an added bonus, 3 times there was no dinner left by the time our crew returned. The cook would never make enough food and the last few crews to return would get screwed out of dinner. Nothing like planting a full day and then having cold cereal or toast for supper. The cook got a bonus for coming under a certain food budget. When there was actually food, it was shitty or leftovers from the previous day. Nobody in camp was happy with the food.

Final straw for me was our foreman nearly drove off a steep road near Nordegg. I'm not trusting my life to a person without the skill or maturity to drive on gravel roads.

Brinkman does have some older crews and some very good contracts, but good luck getting on them . Avoid their rookie shows at all costs though.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:45 pm

Screefhead wrote: Main problem was the rookie foreman (with all of 2 years planting experience and 2 weeks foremanning). Disorganized and didn't have a clue on what the planting specs required .

It seems no matter what province you're in, way too many companies go for these people as foreman instead of more seasoned vets. Maybe they figure they'll get more years out of them?

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:05 pm

I think contractors often have their decisions constrained by three aspects of seasoned vets:

1- They often have experience elsewhere, so they move around a lot. I've been asked by a few companies to foreman, but I have my roots elsewhere so I turned them down. It's not that they weren't good companies at all, it's just that I have prior commitments.

2- Lots of vets would prefer planting over foremaning. I know a number of vets who are great planters and would turn down the opportunity if it presented itself. They can make sometimes nearly as much as a foreman, sometimes a little more, with way less hassle. Being a foreman isn't always sunshine and lollipops and sleepin in trucks while people die to mosquito bites (but sometimes it is).

3- Not all seasoned vets would make great foremen. Lots wouldn't. I'm pretty sure we all know at least one or two. There are also some pretty inexperienced planters who could do very well.

Richianity · Post by **Richianity** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:53 pm

Seabass wrote:way too many companies go for these people as foreman instead of more seasoned vets.

What's that cliche? People get promoted to their level of incompetence?

Have no fear, It doesn't end with planting contractors.

I've never met the man, never worked for him, but I respect Brinkman for his legacy to silviculture. Have no idea about how he runs a business though...

richianity.blogspot.com

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:56 pm

I've always found they run a tight show. You always get paid on time, the prices are never amazing but always decent, and there is always another contract to go to if you have the experience.

treeskipper · Post by **treeskipper** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:24 pm

i planted with this company my second year. it was worse then broland/wilderness. sure there both rookie mills, but at lest B/W didnt go out of there way to misled me. I quite working for them shortly after we started planting 7.0 cent overstory. three people quite. Before i signed on they said prices would not go below 8 cents. after i left, they went to 3-1s for two shifts. i think it was the '03/'04 plant with Mark Kuhlberg. mark was decent, i have no idea why a guy with 20 years planting experience wants to work at a rook mill. I found this company to be worse then: TPC, Dorsey, shuswap silvics, wilderness,broland

howitgoes · Post by **howitgoes** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:39 pm

I planted with them this past season, it was my first year. I was in Ontario. The thing about Brinkman (and probably a lot of other companies) is that it is totally dependent on the camp. I was in Rhonda's camp that did Alban, Sudbury, and Hornepayne. Pretty terrible. We pretty much had no showers for the entire season, no dry tent, on several occasions people were sent to the block without water because there just wasn't enough.
You switched crews every day.
Pretty much 8c all season in unscarified, rocky, slashy land and sometimes shelter wood.
One of the tree runners was let go for 'personal reasons' right after he ran over someone's day bag with a quad and always smelt of alcohol.
We would get a call on the radio to walk out of the block at 5:30 because the bus was almost there and get picked up at 7:30 on numerous occasions.
Everyone hated the food (except me), the chefs were two college kids that were dating.
One crew boss gave my partner and I a decent piece (our first day on her crew), we were filling from the back when we see people on our land. She sent her two favourites into our land, GHOSTLINING in random zig-zags with UNFLAGGED JACK PINE. (Really fun.) The next day she told us to fill from the back and not plant in front of the slash piles because trucks were going to be coming in to remove the slash later, which sucked because it's always cream near the road. We're about 3/4 of the way done the piece when we see her creaming out our front (in front of the slash and right behind it) and everyone else's on the crew! I think she was getting full-crew pay PLUS trees also. I complained to a more superior crew boss and she switched me off that crew, but nothing else.
Got my mail 6 weeks after my mom sent it.

I had fun and made SOME money, but it was a rookie mill.

I did a week at Neil's camp in T-Bay and that was a TIGHT SHIP. Wow, great camp. Land was amazing, like farmers fields. 9 or 10c
Good food, camp was spotless and had a trailer for smellies, hot showers, internet, ORGANIZATION, and the bus would come EXACTLY on time. Unionized! So good!

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:34 pm

on several occasions people were sent to the block without water because there just wasn't enough.

You'd think that would be covered under laws against cruel and inhumane punishment.