Corsair (formerly Backwoods)

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:53 pm

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED BY THE ADMINISTRATOR.

Corsair is a planting contractor based in British Columbia. If you wish to contact them, send an email to:

lorrainejason@hotmail.com

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:54 am

Can people at Corsair expect to get paid every 2 weeks this year, or will they have to wait until the middle of July to get paid like in 2011? Also, will any pay stubs be issued this year or will planters be expected to take it on faith that their pay was done correctly?

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:03 pm

These guys paid me weeks late on a beetle contract a couple of years back. If people are still running into problems getting paid with them I would be hesitant about signing up with these guys without getting the story on this. They have some good people working for them, but it sounds like there's continuing pay sketchiness.

Eagles it would be good if you could share some info on what the pay situation will be this year.

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:32 am

Screefhead wrote:Can people at Corsair expect to get paid every 2 weeks this year, or will they have to wait until the middle of July to get paid like in 2011? Also, will any pay stubs be issued this year or will planters be expected to take it on faith that their pay was done correctly?

Unfortunately I cannot tell you whether the owner will be able to get you all of your demands such as pay stubs and money EVERY 2 weeks. That is a question that I will ask about.

However, I can say that despite the lack of paper work sometimes, I was paid whenever asked. I have not waited longer than a week for money in the years that I have dealt with everyone at the company, except for one case where the owner had forgotten about it. However inconvenient that may have been for the day off on the weekend when banks were not open, I still made it through and therefore was really not that big of a deal. I understand that some have not been paid when requested for up to 2 weeks a few times but typically there is always enough cash in camp for day off EVERY day off so I can't see 2 weeks being such a big deal. As for the paper work situation, I will talk with the owner about the details and try to make sure the paper work is completed within the timeframe he states.

***********

NOTE: Since the owner has taken on all responsibilities of the planting side of things, it can take a year or two for what economists call "learning by doing", in other words experience. Just as it takes you a good 2 or 3 years to reach most of your potential planting capacity, it can take a few for some businesses to operate at full capacity.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:25 am

EaglesIII wrote:Unfortunately I cannot tell you whether the owner will be able to get you all of your demands such as pay stubs and money EVERY 2 weeks. That is a question that I will ask about.

However, I can say that despite the lack of paper work sometimes, I was paid whenever asked. I have not waited longer than a week for money in the years that I have dealt with everyone at the company, except for one case where the owner had forgotten about it. However inconvenient that may have been for the day off on the weekend when banks were not open, I still made it through and therefore was really not that big of a deal. I understand that some have not been paid when requested for up to 2 weeks a few times but typically there is always enough cash in camp for day off EVERY day off so I can't see 2 weeks being such a big deal. As for the paper work situation, I will talk with the owner about the details and try to make sure the paper work is completed within the timeframe he states.

***********

NOTE: Since the owner has taken on all responsibilities of the planting side of things, it can take a year or two for what economists call "learning by doing", in other words experience. Just as it takes you a good 2 or 3 years to reach most of your potential planting capacity, it can take a few for some businesses to operate at full capacity.

Perhaps you should let the owner know that this is a concern for many employees, and that a number of firms last year dealt with complaints that were submitted to the Employment Standards Branch in BC. They have the power to assess fines for non-compliance. A company can't hide from these regulations forever; eventually they'll get caught. Here's a bit of background if it's any help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=bCef69e_v0Q

Good luck with recruiting, and best of luck with your upcoming season.

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:36 pm

I guess I will have to chat with the owner than and let him know what people are thinking.

However, just because there are a few people who complain about things does not make it something as terrible as what a few have made it out to seem on here. I have been a planter with them too some people should keep that in mind. I have not had such a terrible experience. In fact THIS IS IN STARK CONTRAST to my own experience. There is only one occasion thus far over years where I could say that I was paid 2 weeks later than I requested. The truth is that planters tend to complain whether they get what they want or not, and opinions are subjective in nature. I do understand the hardship that can follow when you tell your land lord you will pay by a certain date and you don't due to a late payment. However, that doesn't really warrant a complaint to the authorities I don't think. Repeated issues I can understand. What the truth of the story is I really do not know, I can only say from experience that I have had more problems with corporations forgetting to pay me half a week's salary for weeks at a time, than I have with this company. That's fact. I do feel for those having issues though.

I hope everyone has a great season this year. More trees to be planted with less planters I hear. That should mean better prices if my economics classes have taught me anything. Whoo-hoo!

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:37 pm

i know a couple folks that worked with corsair in the last couple years, and they all seemed to have no complaints about the money they made.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:33 pm

Sorry Eagles, I don't think either myself or Screefhead made it sound "terrible". We said there were issues with our pay and that planters should ask some very basic questions about getting paid for their work. I even went out of my way to be nice and say that they had some good people working for them, which was true. You say in your post that "repeated issues I can understand". The entire point of my post was to say that there might be repeated issues with this company's pay and it's simply worth asking what the story is.

Your attitude seems to be that "it's no big deal" and that planters should be okay with waiting on pay and documented pay information because the company is new, and like a new planter, needs time to learn how to do things properly. I disagree that this a legitimate approach to operating a business or justification for planters not receiving regular pay or up to date pay information.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:58 am

Nate wrote:Sorry Eagles, I don't think either myself or Screefhead made it sound "terrible". We said there were issues with our pay and that planters should ask some very basic questions about getting paid for their work. I even went out of my way to be nice and say that they had some good people working for them, which was true. You say in your post that "repeated issues I can understand". The entire point of my post was to say that there might be repeated issues with this company's pay and it's simply worth asking what the story is.

Your attitude seems to be that "it's no big deal" and that planters should be okay with waiting on pay and documented pay information because the company is new, and like a new planter, needs time to learn how to do things properly. I disagree that this a legitimate approach to operating a business or justification for planters not receiving regular pay or up to date pay information.

Corsair is by no means a new company, although the name has changed and the ownership has shifted from a partnership (Backwoods) to one of the partners taking over the reforestation aspect of the business (Corsair). Although I agree that to implement bi weekly pay periods should be an obligation of any contractor, I was treated overwhelmingly well by the company and even the owner specifically who gave me an advance before meeting me or having completed any work for the company...

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:15 pm

Agreed , but at the same time I can do without the stress of hoping I wont get burned for a huge chunk of money . Nor should i have to beg for money every 2 weeks, assuming you can even get ahold of Jason . By the time I was paid in July I was owed close to $14,000 , I'm sure there were many planters owed even more.

FWIW most planters at Corsair seem fine with not getting paid for months. The prices are better than average so most are willing to put up with the payroll BS.

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:44 pm

Okay, so I figure that I should post one more message concerning this, since almost none of the information here is in concern to my actual post, although perspective employees should be concerned with this information though.

Highballer - I understand that structure of the sentence written 'repeated issues I can understand', is poorly written. I have had 4 or 5 hours sleep for about 4 weeks straight while travelling well over 25000 kms and I was a little tired and rushed by the clock telling me that I had 2 minutes left to use the internet.
In response to your comment on my comment, I was agreeing with whoever it was telling me that they had or someone had repeated issues with the companies payroll. I feel for them as repeated issues should not happen. I was merely pointing out the contrast between my own experience and the comments above that comment which described repeated issues. Yes humans are human, and we make mistakes. Though North Americans act like perfection is something achievable, that is far from the truth. Yes is sucks when we don't get paid on the exact day that we wanted to. Yes it really isn't that big of a deal for me when my pay comes to me a day off later than requested once in the many years that I have worked for someone.

I am not going to attack anyone nor am I going to stick up for something that is simply wrong. I clearly stated that my personal opinion of the company, not a company opinion. Yes I do not feel that one screw up in many years of working for them is really a big deal. As for those with repeated issues concerning these sorts of issues, I empathise with them. As for the rest of people's opinions, I can only say that they are subjective and of course I do not and will never know the Truth of the matter. So I refrain from making any comments towards them other than that my experience and most I know, have not had a great deal of problems with, OR making a lot of, money in the end.

Tnalp · Post by **Tnalp** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:41 pm

Screefhead 14 K owed as a planter!! You got to be kidding?

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:09 pm

NO more positions available sorry. FULL for the season.

To make a comment towards the paper work and pay policies for future reference. The owner has instigated carbon copies for the planters as well for now on. That should fix most issues as to numbers and paper work for now on.

Thanks for all the applications.

fluffer · Post by **fluffer** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:16 am

There is definitely an appeal to working for higher prices in exchange for a somewhat less structured bureaucracy overseeing the operation. If that means waiting a few extra weeks for cheques it's usually alright as long as the workers know in advance. If nobody is ready for that then there is too much worry, especially if they don't have a built up trust in the contractor to assuage concerns that they might not get the money.

EaglesIII · Post by **EaglesIII** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:52 pm

I agree totally and what you said above was spot on. The company is well known and well respected by many, so that is why I say that I am never worried about not getting paid etc. as I have not had the apparent issues the way that some have.

donkeyrider · Post by **donkeyrider** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:19 am

I think its something rarely talked about on this website, and I agree it does have some appeal. Just because I company doesn't pay "on time" doesn't mean they're a terrible company. Yes large rookie mills follow the labor laws exactly as written. They also pay bullshit prices. I was nervous last summer when I wasn't paid on time and every single cheque was not one on time. But at the end of the season every single dime was paid. Not only that but there was a bonus. Every number was correct, every price told to us was paid. I was told by some old time vets that they have worked for this guy for decades and that this is how it was but that every cent would be paid out. To my disbelief they were correct. In my humble opinion 6 extra cents a tree for some late pay is well worth it.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:03 pm

donkeyrider wrote:I think its something rarely talked about on this website, and I agree it does have some appeal. Just because I company doesn't pay "on time" doesn't mean they're a terrible company. Yes large rookie mills follow the labor laws exactly as written. They also pay bullshit prices. I was nervous last summer when I wasn't paid on time and every single cheque was not one on time. But at the end of the season every single dime was paid. Not only that but there was a bonus. Every number was correct, every price told to us was paid. I was told by some old time vets that they have worked for this guy for decades and that this is how it was but that every cent would be paid out. To my disbelief they were correct. In my humble opinion 6 extra cents a tree for some late pay is well worth it.

This is a really valid point, and I agree there's an amount that can be reasonable. If I really trusted an owner I would be okay with this myself. You have to look at the owner and ask yourself, "do I trust my wages on this guy's personal integrity and ability not to go bankrupt?"

My problem is with people who sign up not knowing this is what they're getting into. If it's dealt with in an up-front manner and everyone agrees that to make things work there's going to be delays in pay, and perhaps very lengthy ones, I don't think it's an ideal situation, but it's a trade-off that's understandable. I would take 6 extra cents per tree for late pay as well, if I trusted the owner.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:20 pm

It's really great that you guys have come to an agreement. It's important that every thread on this forum spirals into something completely unrelated. It looks like this crew was filled a couple of days ago, but how do you guys feel about Palestine?

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:00 pm

I was told by some old time vets that they have worked for this guy for decades

Donkeyrider, by "this guy" do you mean Corsair/Backwoods? I'm a bit confused, since Eagles sort of implied earlier that the owner should be given some grace since he's new at this:

Since the owner has taken on all responsibilities of the planting side of things, it can take a year or two for what economists call "learning by doing", in other words experience. Just as it takes you a good 2 or 3 years to reach most of your potential planting capacity, it can take a few for some businesses to operate at full capacity.

I don't disagree that there are some small companies out there that pay well. I also agree that personally, if you trust the owner, you may not be worried about working for a company where the pay takes quite a while to come through. And doesn't all of Ontario work like that too? However, I will point out one thing: trusting the owner is fine, until they give you a reason not to trust you. And that reason is usually bankruptcy and subsequent failure to pay their employees. I can think of a few planting companies over the past half dozen years that have been unable (or unwilling) to pay their employees. Not one of them was a company that employed more than thirty planters.

donkeyrider · Post by **donkeyrider** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:22 pm

No I apologize I was referring to my own experience at a different company

pabllo · Post by **pabllo** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:00 pm

Worked for them when Bill Holdike was still around and it was ok then went back the following year when Jason took over the planting ( Corsair ) he still work's on the old school pay you in full at the end of contract witch is illegal as we all know. He will give you an advance when asked but dont expect it to be there when you ask for it. Big problem was never getting a paystub ? I would keep track of my numbers on my laptop and my advances to keep track but when contract was done he had a way lower number then me ? Corsair is the only planting company on the planet that dosent pay every 2 weeks. I will never ever stick a tree in the ground for them again there are better companies out there to work for.

lann · Post by **lann** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:41 am

Does anybody know Corsair's info? Its like they don't exist. Phone number or address would be helpful. I know the owners name is Jason Lorainne and they are based out of Williams Lake.
Thanks

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:08 am

If you ever have problems finding anything, try the search option up on the top right. That will often give you some sort of results, or at least a crew. You should be able to contact EaglesIII through this board - he/she works for them.

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:08 am

Corsair is owned by Jason lorraine who used to be back woods. they r based out of terrace. Im sure the old back woods # would be the way to track him down. U might wanna check what the message boards r saying ...

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:30 pm

jason lorainne. Corsair is based out of Williams lake, no point contacting Eagleslll he dorsn't work there any longer..

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:54 am

I just removed the cell number from the last post at Jason's request, since it was his own personal phone number. He said that the official way to contact him is through this:

lorrainejason@hotmail.com

crocs · Post by **crocs** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:41 am

are these people telling the truth?

https://www.reddit.com/r/treeplanting/c ... a/corsair/

Corsair? (self.treeplanting)
submitted 1 day ago by ManifestedTruth
Anyone have any experience with corsair in BC?
.
all 8 comments
sorted by: best

.
[–]bobofnofixedaddress 5 points 1 day ago
Foremen and planters, awesome. Owner? I'm still waiting on pay stubs from two years ago.
.
[–]ManifestedTruth[S] 1 point 21 hours ago
Yikes. So should avoid then?
.
[–]bobofnofixedaddress 1 point 4 hours ago
I'm not saying yes or no. Just know going in that it's been an issue for years.
.
[–]HomieApathy 4 points 1 day ago
Good group of people, the Owner owes me money.
.
[–]ManifestedTruth[S] 1 point 21 hours ago
Would you recommend avoiding then?
.
[–]patmon 3 points 19 hours ago
yeah i know three people that are owed money from them, heard the planting is decent though, theyre out of williams lake - the planting around there can be quite good.
.
[–]HomieApathy 1 point 14 hours ago
Sounds like class action Law suit time.
.
[–]spreadingthegreen 2 points 19 hours ago
I also had two friends who did not get paid for work done for Jason at Corsair. Avoid this company. High prices are no good if you don't get paid for all of your work!
.

Cyper · Post by **Cyper** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:40 pm

What is it with planters that don't insist on getting paid? Class action lawsuits are a fantasy. Why don't you people help us get rid of these crooks who don't pay? It's as easy as visiting this website for the Employment Standards Branch to get started.

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/

Or go directly to the self help kit at - https://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/self-help/welcome.htm

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:09 pm

Several friends work there, and talk very highly of the work, culture, and people. The pay after end of season model left me concerned enough to not go there.

Pebbles · Post by **Pebbles** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:03 pm

Mike wrote:The pay after end of season model left me concerned enough to not go there.

Can you elaborate?

jules · Post by **jules** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:16 pm

Pebbles wrote:
Mike wrote:The pay after end of season model left me concerned enough to not go there.
Can you elaborate?

IIRC, they pay you after the season rather than in two-week or semi-monthly payperiods. I was only there for a shift at the very beginning of a season a few years ago, so my memory's a bit fuzzy, but I think they also took their sweet time paying me for what I did there, too.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:17 pm

I state this without any reference to any specific company (operating today), because I am not an employee and I do not know what is happening at said company.

Working for anyone that pays at the end of the year is a bad idea. You are taking on the financial risk instead of the company. If something goes wrong, someone goes bankrupt, a contract fails, or someone screws up, you are left holding the empty bag. That is what happened at Batlang. Good owner, positive culture, great crew. Didn't matter when the plug was pulled. You can't pay rent with good intentions.

Contractors reap the rewards of big profit, but they do so predicated on taking the big risk. The law prohibits them from having their cake and eating it too. You cannot legally be the contractor that makes the profit, while having your employees carry the economic risk. It's really a bad sign if a company can't afford to pay every two weeks. It suggests they don't have the line of credit or raw capital needed to maintain payroll and they're on thin ice, or that they simply don't care about the regulations. Neither case is good.

You are also hurting other planters in the big picture, because you are supporting an illegal business practice that has resulted in other workers being screwed. Even if your employer is a great guy, has great contracts, and you like it there...you are supporting a business practice that is used by less reputable operators to shoehorn into the market. Giving up your rights is a slippery slope.

Again, very clearly, I am only addressing the practice of paying at the end of the year, and not commenting on any company (except Batlang, as that is common knowledge).

Bambalacha · Post by **Bambalacha** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:31 pm

Working for anyone that pays at the end of the year is a bad idea. You are taking on the financial risk instead of the company. If something goes wrong, someone goes bankrupt, a contract fails, or someone screws up, you are left holding the empty bag.

you called it

Tnalp · Post by **Tnalp** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:21 am

I'm surprised that there is not more activity on this thread! Spoke in person with 3 people owed many thousands from last years projects! Stay away!

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:11 am

Corsair (AND owner) on the list of companies being sued - Vancouver Supreme Court: https://www.biv.com/article/2017/4/whos ... l-11-2017/

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:21 am

The Toronto-Dominion Bank
Claim $33,129 for debt.
Defendants

Corsair Field Services Ltd. and Jason Carey Lorraine
Plaintiff

Doesn't that mean they are the ones doing the suing? or am I misunderstanding? I'm impressed you even found that.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:22 am

The plaintiff is doing the suing - the defendant is getting sued.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:56 am

The table is a bit tricky to read. The case is actually as follows:

Defendants
Corsair Field Services Ltd. and Jason Carey Lorraine

Plaintiff
Max Fuel Distributors Ltd.

Claim
$30,059 for fuel and other goods.

danger · Post by **danger** » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:48 am

Can anyone working at Corsair these days give an update? I worked there back in the day when they did the whole pay-at-end-of-season BS. Hope Jason's not getting away with that shit anymore.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:57 pm

Corsair may be out of business for good. They had zero presence on BC bid sheets, and I am unaware of them having work with any major licensees. The principle has not communicated openly within the industry since things went weird 4 years ago.

danger · Post by **danger** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:39 pm

jdtesluk wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:57 pm The principle has not communicated openly within the industry since things went weird 4 years ago.

What happened 4 years ago?

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:20 am

Just the stuff mentioned here. Planters not paid, company went bankrupt and stopped planting, and from the looks of the posts above (plus what I heard directly from a number of planters), people and businesses are still owed money. I guess the moral of the story here is that if you work for someone who doesn't pay regularly every two weeks, your financial risk is going to be higher if they go out of business and can't pay you.

Planters like to defend the companies that they are working for, especially when the prices are especially good, but this is unquestionably a risk. Everyone likes to think that a company is solvent until suddenly it isn't. It's a story that has played out several times in this industry over the past twenty years.

danger · Post by **danger** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:34 am

Interesting, didn't know they went bankrupt. If a company goes bankrupt like that while owing planters money, are the planters just fucked? There's gotta be a way they can sue for those owing wages..

Cyper · Post by **Cyper** » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:21 am

If you are an employee in Canada, you have certain protections under the Wage Earner Protection Program (WEPP) concerning payment of your wages, vacation, severance and termination pay if your employer becomes bankrupt (or becomes subject to a receivership) under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act.

Information about this program is available here -https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... loyee.html

If the compensation payable under the WEPP is less than the wages you are entitled to, the bankruptcy trustee will add you to the list of creditors. You will however be required to fill out a proof of claim, and to provide afterwards evidence of the validity of your claim.
The trustee will build the bankruptcy assets by selling the property of the bankrupt. Then, they will prepare the bankruptcy dividends slip which lists the creditors to be paid. These dividends will be distributed according the priority of payment prescribed under Section 136 of the Bankuptcy and Insolvency Act.
Although Section 136 states that you will be regarded as a “preferred” creditor, things may be different for a part of the amount owed. In fact, you will only be entitled to such a status for the first $2,000 claimed. If you are eligible under the WEPP, and therefore allowed to recuperate some monies beyond this $2,000, you will then be regarded as an ordinary creditor for the balance of the salary amount claimed. Therefore, secured creditors — such as financial institutions holding a mortgage — will have priority over you.

Lucky · Post by **Lucky** » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:32 pm

something to mention here The company has to declare bankruptcy in order for employees to be eligible for the WEPP. This became apparent with the whole
Batlang/Brian Adams fiasco of 10 years ago. Brian "couldn't afford" to file for bankruptcy, thus leaving all employees ineligible for the WEP program. The government took their money first, as they always do, not sure how the rest of the debtors were paid. I think planters ended up with about 4 cents on the dollar and very little help from any government program

danger · Post by **danger** » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:07 pm

Sounds like planters would essentially be shit out of luck in those scenarios, then. Good to know.