Coastal Rookie

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:14 pm

I've just been hired for a fall coastal plant. I'm curious what advice people have for a 5th year vet with regards to coastal planting. Anything special I need? I'm planning on buying a set of 4 baggers and a pair of caulks. Anything else that should leap out at me?

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:11 pm

who hired you?

The_Bearslayer · Post by **The_Bearslayer** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:55 pm

There's barely any difference, except you'll have to learn where the decent work is. You have nothing to worry about.

barnbill · Post by **barnbill** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:23 pm

good rain gear

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:23 am

I've gotten a recommendation that I should buy a kickerless shovel --- do coastal vets agree?

As for who hired me; someone from the standard list of decent to good coastal companies: Evergreen, Sitka, Timberline, Impact, Bivouac West, Brinkman. Nothing awful (Osprey, Coast Range) and nothing legendary (Fieldstone; unless I've made a mistake and one of the above is legendary, in which case, you can guess that they probably didn't hire me).

Not getting more specific at the moment, I'm afraid.

bush · Post by **bush** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:34 am

my guess is evergreen.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:46 am

What would people say a basic cook for yourself kit consists of? Packing as small and light as possible, of course:

1 set of cutlery, plate, bowl, one large pot, one large frying pan/wok. Anything else?

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:01 pm

right on. i wouldnt be worrying too much about what to bring and what not, as long as you got the basic gear you can make it work. also, youre most likely staying in town so anything you think you need can be had easily enough.

theoderix · Post by **theoderix** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:19 pm

Only Brinkman has camps on the coast

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:30 pm

Other essentials for a kitchen-on-the-go:

- A good knife. Good for cutting roasts, or stuff like that.
- A can opener. Critical.
- Maybe a small spice set. Salt & pepper for sure.
- A set of stack-inside (like Russian dolls) tupperware containers. Sometimes when you make something decent like a roast or a chicken, you can't eat it all at once.
- Saran wrap.

A crock pot (about $24 from WalMart) might come in handy, but don't buy it right away. I don't believe you have a vehicle right now? That's a lot of stuff to lug around. You probably won't even want to buy the large pot and frying pan. Most motel kitchenettes have pretty rudimentary gear, but I've almost never seen one without a frying pan or pot.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:38 pm

I don't believe you have a vehicle right now? That's a lot of stuff to lug around. You probably won't even want to buy the large pot and frying pan. Most motel kitchenettes have pretty rudimentary gear, but I've almost never seen one without a frying pan or pot.

This is good judgement. Thanks.

retrovertigo · Post by **retrovertigo** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:04 pm

Might wanna find out if you'll be using fertilizer on the contract, if so, figure out what to use to hold the tea bags. There was a thread on it here that I can't seem to find now. Most people use hacked off milk jugs, maple syrups containers, etc. Last year I used a little juice container I got at the dollar store. You could test it by strapping it to your bags and filling it with sugar packets or something, see if it's comfortable to walk around with and your hand fits into it neatly.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm

You can also buy fert pouches from most planting equipment supplies for $13 to $15. They attach on the side of your bags like a flagging pouch. They're pretty handy. I ferted about 40,000 trees before I discovered that there were proper pouches available, and the pouch definitely sped me up.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:56 pm

I've heard people prefer milk jugs to fert pouches; I have a fert pouch and used it a bit (3000-4000 trees of Fert?) and it didn't seem awful.

tree · Post by **tree** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:01 pm

Hi Mike,

It will be my first time on the Coast as well. I had a few questions regarding specific equipment.

Has anybody tried the Pezl helmets as an alternative to traditional hardhats?
http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/verticality ... alveo-vent

Also, are there any good places to have hiking boots caulked on Vancouver Island?
I will probably get a pair of Viberg 200 Woodsman, but I would like to also have a pair of hikers with caulks.
http://www.workboot.com/logger-boots/vi ... dsman.html

You will probably need Hi-Viz wear. I am thinking a Vest, from Ono/Value Village?

And, I am still thinking about the kickerless spoon.
http://www.workwizer.ca/popupShowProduct.aspx?prodID=39

Happy Planting

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:36 pm

The Vibergs are kind of expensive unless you know you're going a few coastal seasons

There is a shoe repair guy in Port Alberni that will put caulks in hikers. He does a very good work repairing boots also.

Some foresters allow the climbing helmets - some don' t. I try to avoid contracts that force me to wear a helmet. I worked about 35 days on the coast so far this year, didn't have to wear a helmet once

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:54 pm

There is a shoe repair guy in Port Alberni that will put caulks in hikers. He does a very good work repairing boots also.

Does anyone know who? And approximate cost? I just wear normal chainsaw caulks, but this might be useful info to a lot of people.

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:12 pm

Bring some antihistamine if you're even mildly allergic to wasp stings and planting on the island this Fall. Lots of nests hiding in all that slash and sometimes it can take a while to climb back out of the slash pits leaving you exposed for multiple stings. You don't want to miss any work with a fat hand.
Those companies that you listed as decent have a wide range in the quality of their contracts, hope you end up on one of the better ones.
Use your minimums, but don't get carried away in the cream as you seem to be able to get away with more excess in the slash than in open. If you flag intelligently, it will make you money on the coast and your density will be more consistent. Bag as heavy as you can so you can area plant and still make it to the back, it's better than line planting and climbing over huge slash. That's enough for now, and don't worry if it takes a while to make the money you are accustomed to, it's a different game.

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:57 pm

Scooter wrote:
There is a shoe repair guy in Port Alberni that will put caulks in hikers. He does a very good work repairing boots also.
Does anyone know who? And approximate cost? I just wear normal chainsaw caulks, but this might be useful info to a lot of people.

Cost is around $150ish, plus whatever your boots cost. I have met 3 people who have converted their boots - rave about how nice they are compared to Vibergs or the Viking foot destroyers. if I'm in Port Alberni this fall I'll be getting my Scarpas done for sure.

shellagh · Post by **shellagh** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:09 pm

hey scooter i had caulks put on my boots by this guys last spring. plus he mended several seams that were blown out on this and another pair of boots and replaced an eyelet and i bought a pair of insoles. it cost me 110$. well worth it. i think the place is called carters shoe repair. it was by the harbour.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:35 pm

Nice, thanks. I'll be paying him a visit.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:46 pm

Don't forget your banana-slug repellent :)

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:37 pm

If you are in Port Alberni you'll most likely need a hard hat which will have to be hi-vis red or orange. Don't bother with a climbing helmet unless it's an approved model. Your contractor should be able to tell you which ones are. Hi-vis vests or shirts are most likely required. It can be anywhere from 10 to 30 degrees in Alberni in late August and early September. A waterproof dry bag is a great thing to have - and don't think the ravens can't open a lunch box.

tree · Post by **tree** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:10 pm

I found a place in Nanaimo that can caulk hiking/mountaineering boots. The price is $150. I am getting an old pair of Zamberlans done up. http://www.nanaimoshoe.com/

Also, the Pezl helmets offer a pro line. I got the idea from the Nootka reforestation site. http://nootkareforestation.com/Employees.php
http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/verticality ... ertex-best

retrovertigo · Post by **retrovertigo** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:49 pm

Just to add to the list for boot caulkers (maybe this deserves its own thread?) Pagoni & Sons in Powell River does this. Not sure how much they would charge but they did a bunch of work (fixed the seams, stretched, and re-glued the soles) on my old pair of Scarpas, basically bringing them back from the dead, and only charged me 18$.

chrisdunn · Post by **chrisdunn** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:36 am

Scooter wrote:
There is a shoe repair guy in Port Alberni that will put caulks in hikers. He does a very good work repairing boots also.
Does anyone know who? And approximate cost? I just wear normal chainsaw caulks, but this might be useful info to a lot of people.

I got a pair of Scarpa Invernos done in Courtenay. A place called Griff's. It was on Cliffe Ave. I think it was $100 and I bought my own caulks. This was 8 or 9 years ago when I was with Celtic.

And a guy in PG on George St. Steve and Son Shoe Repair. He did a pair of Scarpa Vega's and another pair of Invernos for me more recently. They costed $150 each set, and came with caulks. He does a good job, but I thought that the guy in Courtenay had a bit of a better footbed to start with.

Steve threatens to retire, best get em while you can. He's a good guy, likes to chat about neat stuff. He's still in business, I seen him the other day when I was walking past his shop.

Hugo Pants · Post by **Hugo Pants** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:49 am

4 baggers, well that depends on your style, I don't use them and on the coast I never wish I had them, but I prefer light bagger ups. You'll have to find out what works for you, if it's better to gain speed and work your piece/bagging up so that you don't lose too much time doing that than don't load up too heavy. A lot of my friends just plant better if they stuff their bags to the max before jumping in, so to each their own. It's just that you may not want to spend 3 hours straight out there. Just bag up like 150 or less (it's ok!) your first run and see how it goes. Heck that's my plan and this ain't my first time out there.

There is something about the kickerless blade, the logic being there's way more stuff to get them caught up on on the coast, your flow doesn't get interrupted by the kicker... a lot of the real vets I work with (I would be a vet in that I have done this before, but what about those with like 20 years on me...) take em both off, but not everyone. That being said, right handed and I don't have the right kicker, which, because of the way I plant, is the one that gets caught, I still like to STEP on the shovel (watch yo knees and boots) but that's just me sometimes I get lazy.

Anything else like hi vis and helmets check with your contractor, he's responsible to ensure you at least know what you need. Don't go too nuts on boots for a Fall plant if it's your first....

If you like to smoke bring extra lighters, buy bic 5 packs. You may have a nice container but it ain't in it when you're using it and it only takes one drop to f"%k your day up.

WOOL, BIG WOOL, THE MORE THE MERRIER, mostly to change into at the end of a wet day, especially if you're boating. It's temperate on the coast but the wet cold'll get you in the bones.

If you need hi vis I recommend getting already hi vis rain gear, I like the helly hansen stretchable, but some not so much. You'll see it's way less hassle on the shifty weather days if you don't have to put hi vis over your gear.

If your tree line is old growth, make sure to stop and check it out once in a while, that shit's getting rare.

salbrecher · Post by **salbrecher** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:58 am

Hugo Pants wrote:If your tree line is old growth, make sure to stop and check it out once in a while, that shit's getting rare.

Some really good advice Hugo! I would sometimes drop my bags and just look at the view and think or walk around back there, especially if there was a nice creek, rock bluff, or really big trees. I can still remember some of the most amazing tree lines in Gold River and Holeberg. Special places for sure.

tree · Post by **tree** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:37 am

Great, thanks for the good advice. I will be starting next week.

bush · Post by **bush** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:32 pm

don't drop your shovel when you run away from the wasps that are gonna getcha.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:27 pm

I've heard people prefer milk jugs to fert pouches; I have a fert pouch and used it a bit (3000-4000 trees of Fert?) and it didn't seem awful.

If you've got one of the standard BushPro fert pouches, you might want to think about cutting off those two lips at the top. The drawback is that you'll spill tea-bags more easily when you've really stuffed your pouch full and you're leaning over. But I found that it was a lot easier to grab ferts quickly with those lips gone. That might be why some people prefer a milk jug - bigger opening.

Also, if you're used to planting with music/headphones, be aware that you're not allowed to in some places. And you're also going to get stung more often because of them, because you won't hear the warning buzz. That may not be a big deal in the Interior when you can bolt in pretty much any direction once you notice them flying all around you, and you only get stung three or four times. But when you're on a cliff or in a slash pile, every split second of extra warning such as hearing them start to buzz might be the difference between getting three stings and two dozen. And even people like myself who aren't allergic to the stings don't cope well with two dozen stings at once.

Although this is a big late for your case Mike, since you've already planted there for a bit, I'd recommend bringing several books. Or a laptop or e-reader loaded with books/movies. While the weather in the fall is far less likely to cause unexpected shut-downs, you'll find that you frequently have down time that you didn't expect, and you can get bored pretty quickly once you've caught up on your sleep.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:24 pm

There is a rumour that I won't be seeing any fert, so it's a moot issue anyways, at least until spring.

I basically never plant with music anymore. Though I am considering buying a small battery speaker if I get desperate; another guy had one in a zip lock baggie with his MP3 player. Seemed a decent set up.

Yeah, we've already had an extra day off, but I'm a media junkie anyways, I brought lots of books and movies.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:14 pm

Add pasta strainer to the list of useful stuff.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:19 pm

More additions to the wish list:

1. Diamond tipped caulks that never wear down or get ripped out of your boot.
2. Hi-vis kevlar body armour.
3. A blood transfusion every day at noon, to replace blood that you lost from your forearms in the morning (only applicable if you plant in a t-shirt).
4. A jet pack for easy return to the cache.
5. A mountain goat to carry extra trees around for you.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:01 pm

How do I keep the sweat from dripping into my eyes? It wasn't a problem ever before when I wore a normal hat, but it's a problem on the coast with the hardhat.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:01 pm

Plant the spring coastal season instead. You don't sweat much when it's snowing.

But seriously, I'm not sure. It doesn't really happen to me much. Maybe I sweat more in the upper body and less in the head, although I did notice that I wiped sweat off my forehead maybe three times today. I think some people use foam sponges in the front of their hardhat (specially designed for hardhats) that sort of absorb the sweat and keep it from dripping straight down into your eyes.

Or maybe wear a bandana under the hardhat ... same reason?

retrovertigo · Post by **retrovertigo** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:15 pm

Get a bandana the same colour as your hardhat, once you're out in your piece toss the hardhat in your backbag and keep an ear for the forester's truck.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:12 pm

Of course, if and when you get busted for that, the forester craps all over your boss (generally not you personally). So, if you're on a good contract with an employer you respect, you put them in a really bad position by making such a choice. Moreover, you end up triggering additional hardhat checks by your already overworked forepersons and supervisors as they are forced to run to rectify the problem the forester is now freaking out about. Just saying, it's not just about the individual all the time. I remember being on a "hardhats by the treeline" job, and one of my stubborn co-workers kept ignoring the rules and abusing the discretion we had been given. He was spotted by the forester, next day we were on 100% hardhats. There were a lot of hard looks at donkey-boy in the truck the next day. Whether or not you like the rules imposed on you by the licensee, realize your actions can directly impact everyone else on your crew. Just for the record, I am not a fan of hardhats for planting, unless overhead obstacles and falling materials are evident or likely.

I occasionally use something called a Halo. It's a sports headband with a small rubber gasket that sits against the forehead on the inside of the headband, running from one side of your temple to the other (find them on Ebay). Sweat runs down your head to the headband, and gets directed to the sides and away from your eyes. I have used this for mountain biking as well as with a hardhat, and find it works great, particularly for keeping sweat drips off the inside of my glasses.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Sounds good, I'll check it out. Next question: Any surefire tricks to spotting a wasps nest in the ground before I put the shovel in/spotting a hanging nest before I plant next to it?

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:10 pm

For wasps/hornets, not really. Just try to keep an eye out for them flying around. There aren't too many horseflies around anymore, so if you see a large [mostly] black insect buzzing around, pause for just a second to make sure you don't see a second one.

I assume you've worked on contracts in the Interior where you've hit a lot of nests before? I haven't found things to be bad so far this fall. I've worked on several contracts where people would hit a nest an average of once every 200 trees.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:26 pm

No surefire tricks that I know of, but a few ideas. Your employer may already address this, but skip the earbuds so you can hear the buzzy-buzz. I think hanging nests are the worst because the wasps can funnel out of them soooo fast. I find hanging ones are more of an issue in older blocks with less recent disturbances. Be more careful near gullies and water sources, wasps need water! The ground-nests are tough to avoid. I say remain aware of your surroundings so you can be light on your feet and move away in a hurry if need be. Like a treefaller, keep one eye on a safe exit route whenever possible. Wasps will generally chase invaders only to a certain distance. So, if you do hit one and run (out of choice or panic), don't keep going- that will only increase the chance of falling and hurting yourself. I have heard and read that 20-30 metres away should be sufficient in cases where you actually impacted the nest and caused a major disturbance, then stop and deal with the few that might still be with you. I've had the best luck moving away quickly then freezing to avoid attracting unwanted attention. Of course 20-30 metres on the coast can involve a lot of slash, so be especially wary when entering spaces where you can't move away in a hurry. Really sucks to be stuck in a slashpit with 100 angry yellowjackets. Loose shirts are nice, as they make it harder to sting you through the shirt.

Try not to leave your shovel lodged in the nest. That sets up a very tricky next move.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:04 pm

Be more careful near gullies and water sources, wasps need water!

I didn't realize this, although it definitely makes sense. Not only would they need water to survive, but I assume possibly even more to make the paste that their nests are made out of.

I have heard and read that 20-30 metres away should be sufficient

I usually find that after 20 feet, if you're quick to cover that distance, you'll rarely get stung more than one additional time. And yes, standing still seems to help once you're not close to the nest. It takes a bit of resolve to stand still when there are still two or three buzzing around you, but I learned early that motion is the only real attractant once you're more than a certain radius from the nest.

I'd guess that 80-90% of the nests that I've hit while planting, over the years, have been underground ones that I've stuck my shovel into. I very rarely see them above the surface. I'd guess that the nest type might depend on species. I'm not sure. Most people can't even tell the difference between wasps and hornets.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:37 am

Thus far in 9 days, I've hit 2 ground nests, and seen 2 hanging nests. That's already more than I'm happy with. Why didn't I see any in Port Alice? Do they only hang out Central/South island?

I've worked on several contracts where people would hit a nest an average of once every 200 trees.

I would not work this contract for any amount of money.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:01 am

Yes there seem to be more nests in the central and southern part of the Island. We had lots of wasp incidents around Sayward this summer. The stings are certainly painful but it's often the reaction of the planter that can lead to more serious injury. I'm not sure what you can do about it as it's a natural reaction to get away as fast as possible. In heavy slash that can be a problem.

In both our close calls the stingee left the offending shovel lodged in the nest and in a surge of adrenalin jumped/ran/rushed away as fast as they could go, tripping and scrambling over all manner of evil sharp pointy slash, almost injuring knees/ankles/wrists. These are not the kind of situations where your mind recounts the last safety talk about moving carefully in the slash. Primal survival mode takes over and you're outta there.

bush · Post by **bush** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:29 pm

is that self preservation or is that not self preservation? running away to save yourself, only to injure yourself. go figure.

hurry up and panic!

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:41 am

Scooter wrote:Add pasta strainer to the list of useful stuff.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:27 pm

Not entirely. You can often use the screening from the window of your motel room.