Hardcore Treeplanters

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:10 pm

With the permission of Scooter I just copied updated information from this thread to the Treeplanter’s Database found at http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/ to make it easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against one another, in the hopes that they will treat and pay their planters better.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:53 pm

i for one don't like the idea of this forum being copy and pasted into a more public site. if google can access my posts i will be posting differently from now on.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:03 am

It's not more public. You still have to register to view the posts and for which reason Google cannot access them. It is a private forum like this one. Furthermore your name or identity is not shown, so it is in fact more private than this forum.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Okay I guess that's not so bad then. I don't entirely approve, as we're posting with this forum in mind, not any other. But it's not something I'm going to make a big deal about.

The_Bearslayer · Post by **The_Bearslayer** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:28 pm

Still, why? This shit is lame. The posts should be deleted.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:51 am

I think the most important point is that the info is presented in a concise and quickly accessible format, as opposed to having to read a lot of the fluff on this forum. Some have argued that I should not help "lazy people", but I've gone to university and I know that most of those have a totally packed schedule and would appreciate saving time. Treeplanting is a big turnover industry, as far I've seen lately, so it's good that those entering can quickly assess which companies to not work for rather than having to read this entire forum. You may feel hurt that they are not forced to read your fluff, but I think you are being selfish in your thinking. I'm only helping people. I can go anywhere on the internet, even without Scooter's approval, and put content elsewhere. You can't stop it, it's a regular practice in the search engine sphere, so it doesn't make sense for you to endlessly whine about it. My website was created for rookies and its irrelevant to me whether any of you experienced ones don't like its format.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:45 am

I was okay with what Kleenex was doing until this post. Now that he's chosen the arrogant condascending route, I've changed my mind. Keep in mind that rookies only account for 1/4 to 1/3 of the industry. That means you have effectively just disrespected the majority of the workforce with your "whining" and "irrelevant" commentary.

Fact is, Kleenex, planters looking for information will come here first. Replant has been firmly established for the better part of a decade. Rookies will generally do what they see the vets doing, and will end up here eventually even if they do start at your site. I would say that peer pressure is far more powerful than the efficiency savings you are claiming. You could try a prolonged spamming campaign to divert people to your site, but I'm pretty sure you'll lose your account before long, and most of the regular users here will attack you without mercy. I really don't think you want the vast majority of the planting web presence calling you out as a turd, regardless of how rad your new site might be.

Point is, you're probably better off working with the crowd in this case. You're going to take some slings and arrows for your idea, and it seemed you were fairly patient until now. However, when you start saying stuff to the effect of I'm going to repost your written materials whether you like it or not and not caring what vets think, you're starting to move in the wrong direction. What annoyed me most (in the beginning), was your spamming of the forum with a post in every company thread. I got over that, and figured is Scooter did'nt care after all the work he put into this site, why should I? Now. I'm starting to question your whole attitude here.

I'll agree that giving information in a more easily navigable format is handy, Wade Grandoni used to do a good job of it with his site, so you're hardly the first with the idea (now his site is gone too). But I would also contend that people come here for a lot of reasons other than just quick and efficient data gathering, and if you stick to your "screw vets, the internet let's me do anything" attitude, you're going to be very much alienated from the discourse that actually keeps bringing people back here.
Just my two bits. Sorry for calling you Kleenex, I really shouldn't be so juvenile, but it was almost irresistable.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:00 pm

This topic moved here to avoid creating the illusion that Kleenex has anything to do with Summit.

Also, Kleenex, please remove the long link in your profile location, it's throwing the board formatting off. You can put it in your existing signature no problem. As someone who runs a neat and tidy website yourself I'm sure you'll appreciate this.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:30 pm

Why is a site for rookies called hardcoretreeplanterz.com?

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:59 pm

Good call Nate

bush · Post by **bush** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:26 pm

the best part is that you can pay, only $99 for info or only $50 for info. all major credit cards accepted.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:56 pm

Yah jdtesluk, I admit I got pissed off at the constant attacks and lashed back. Honestly, if the vets are constantly going to insult me I wont fold to the pressure and wont take the site down. It serves more purposes and it only costs me 10 bucks a year to keep up. If someone has a constructive comment I can change something. The industry is constantly changing and in 7 years most of the planters could be replaced by ones who are now rookies. Like I wrote before, I stopped “spamming” when asked to, and was only doing it to about half the threads I was drawing info from, and wanted to point to my site for those who might be looking for a more concise format of such information. But it did not occur to me that users could be subscribed to an entire forum. I don’t really use forums much, so I did not expect all my same submissions to end up in so many people’s email boxes, and I can only apoligise for that. I stopped submitting when asked and decided with scooter to leave only a single thread for this specific purpose.
Hamster, I chose the name because I felt it had a nice ring to it, I wrote a lot of it when I was on a monster, super highballer crew, and wanted to teach rookies how to put in similar high numbers.
Bush, your info is slander. I am not selling info but an email service (99$ for treeplanting companies wanting to approach treeplanters with a job opening, 50$ for treeplanters wanting to save themselves hours of work by emailing their CV to 70+ treeplanting companies).

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:54 am

I've kept quiet on this until these recent posts of Kleenex's that have pissed me off further. First, where the hell do you find slander in what Bush said? You stated the same crap in your response to him. You're selling information that is easily obtainable, plain and simple as that.

Honestly Kleenex, if people are too lazy or don't have the time to find the better companies to work for then that's too fucking bad for them. If you can't take some time to do proper research on a company or find their email or phone number then you simply don't deserve to be working for that employer and would be better suited working for a company like Apex or Summit.

Jordan's right in that people will come here first to find information. We have a well established forum full of write-ups and reviews on a large number of companies. All you're doing by taking our posts and putting them on your website is creating a secondary location for them. It's a very simple forum to navigate unless you're illiterate but in that case they wouldn't be able to read your website either.

You have an alright idea in creating your website and providing tips to potential rookies. I say potential because I refuse to call anyone a rookie before they're hired and have completed some time on the job. Hell, you're not a rookie in any profession until you've started the actual job. What I don't think is an alright idea and actually see as a dick move is trying to sell the same information we provide here for free.

You should probably watch it and play nicely with us as well because if we're all ridiculing you and showing potential planters that you're a useless quack then they'll potentially view you and your website in the same way.

Also, a lot of us here attended, or attend, university as well. Yes, time is very valuable and there's sometimes not much of it to expend but there's also not a whole lot of money to expend on useless shit like paying someone $50 to buy a list of publicly accessible e-mail address either. For anyone who wants the emails and phone numbers, I'll save you $50 right now. Go to this link... http://www.replant.ca/reference/ch04/chapter04.html

Kleenex, you may or may not realise it, but there's a lot more to replant.ca than just the forums. Scooter has put a lot of work into the site over the years and has provided a good amount of information on the main replant.ca website. Funny thing is, and I know you're going to call this slander, I have a feeling that a quick glance at your website would most likely reveal a lot of the same information as this one.

In essence, screw you Kleenex, you arrogant little prick.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:48 am

Just consider this your friendly hazing. You're actually getting off easy. The guy trying to sell coir mats left here in tears.
Some people will simply never warm to your concept. But like Scooter, I'm a bit curious to see how it turns out a year or so from now and will mostly be swayed by your attitude. As long as he's okay with it, I'm not going to soil myself. Until then, a few more slings and arrows are likely, but I sense you may have the patience to endure them. If you came up with this site-concept/orientation, maybe just maybe you have more to offer down the line and can build on it in some new and interesting way.
You are right on one thing for sure; the industry is always changing. I am always interested in seeing how anything new fits into the change, and how it fits (or potentially fails to fit) in with the old.
Sorry again for mocking the name. Be extra careful when you name your children. I have a cousin named Enis, his life really sucks.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:31 am

I am watching this all moderately closely, but with a sort of detached indifference. As Kenax pointed out, the internet IS free. And that is a good thing, because otherwise, it wouldn't exist.

I'm also curious to see how this all pans out. But in essence, I think the key thing to consider is this: people won't spend money on something that they don't have to. If this was some sort of major corporate directory, then some suit in an office might not think twice about spending $50 to get an email list that he could find for free on the same or other sites, with only fifteen minutes of work. But the target market here is potential tree planters. I see people coming up to buy drinks from me every night that I'm bartending with a pocketful of nickels and dimes, and that to me is a remind of how little spending money a lot of university students have. Very few people with any common sense would pay for that email list.

And in the end, the freedom of the internet can work both ways. Thanks to the diligence of a couple people here, I'll end up having a much more updated Companies List shortly. I very much appreciate that. So at least something positive (for Replant) has come out of the situation. And on another positive note, Kenax has several references to Replant on his site now. So it could be worse.

In the end, my only real concerns are:

1. The fact that a lot of non-Canadians will see that, and I don't think there is enough emphasis on that site about the fact that it is very difficult for a foreigner to get a work visa for planting these days. So although it is definitely still possible for non-Canadians to get jobs, it seems to be a lot more difficult than several years ago.

2. I was annoyed with the number of repetitive posts that were made here at the start, in each company's thread, but he stopped making them when I emailed.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:36 am

I'm not sure that the Internet's free, or should be, in the sense of his stealing of media and appropriating it as his own. I'm assuming you're okay with him using all of your photos without giving you credit, but I'm not so sure someone like Cameron MacDonald would be, whose work he's stolen from http://www.tree-planter.com/?navigation ... lery_id=14.

In Canadian law, a photograph is copyrighted for 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which it was taken.

It would be one thing if he just "did it", but he has the arrogance to slap "Copyright © KENAX, Karel Kosman - All Rights Reserved Worldwide." on the bottom of his site. He's not only stolen content from you and others, he's attempted to claim ownership of it too.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:55 am

Ok. I went to check out this website and their are pictures of me and my friends on there. I do not want my picture associated with this website. What can I do about this?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:05 am

If this was some sort of major corporate directory, then some suit in an office might not think twice about spending $50 to get an email list that he could find for free on the same or other sites, with only fifteen minutes of work.

Totally fair, it actually took about an hour for me to dig up all those e-mails.

The copyright thing is really strange though. Do I claim credit to the words I write online? I don't think so. Can someone else claim credit for my words? Dunno. Don't think so. Putting a copyright on it is weird.

SwampDonkey · Post by **SwampDonkey** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 am

Scooter, without me digging around on the forums here, have you heard of the Canadian Forests website for Forestry jobs? There is bound to be all kinds of seasonal silviculture jobs advertised there. I'm not sure how well it fits in here though. It's geared more towards technicians and foresters I think. But, does provide lots of company names and addresses.

Might be something new from their Silviculture Contractors page.

http://www.canadian-forests.com/silvicu ... eries.html

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:08 pm

Ok. I went to check out this website and their are pictures of me and my friends on there. I do not want my picture associated with this website. What can I do about this?

If you email him and point out the specific photo, I'm pretty sure that he'd remove it. Let me know how that goes ...

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:57 pm

I work a lot with fair use and Creative Commons, and am aware of many of its limitations. While I believe that he should ask individual people permission for their posts, I can see his overall point. And while what one writes in a private forum can be argued in court to be published and copyrighted automatically, that would be tough to enforce.

The fact that he went to the trouble of asking Scooter for permission is something at least. But obviously many of us here don't like the idea of somebody picking and choosing some of our words to publish elsewhere. And we may not have time to verify the legitimacy of his usage. So yeah, if people don't want backlash they should go to the trouble of asking each individual for permission. Aggregates are for public websites, and this one isn't.

MiddleAgeMayhem · Post by **MiddleAgeMayhem** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:18 pm

Replant.ca = the treeplanters' online community.

Other website = meh...

A bunch of inexperienced planters online together without any vets to help out is the same as a company with the same mix: A potential Horror Show!

Just my .02

Still, good luck to him, I guess.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:46 am

Don't worry, I'm not making a killing from my site. My main motivation was because I was shortchanged $2000 after a gruelling treeplanting season and I wanted to retaliate by making an easy system for starting treeplanters to compare different treeplanting companies (like I did with translationpayments.com, because I was angry because a few customers did not pay for my hard work, simply because they are dishonest wankers), instead of reading through extended forums. I myself was in university when I was treeplanting and know there isn't much time to research. I pay 12 bucks a year for the domain and the hosting is free. I get marginal benefit from linking to my other domains from this site and that is enough to keep it. I have managed to sell my treeplanting accounting software a few times, as I enjoy programming more than translation (my main source of income) and am trying to move in that direction. So another motivation for developing this website. I was also paid some to develop a treeplanting company's website, work which I also enjoy more than translation.
What concerns "syndicating content", as someone who tries to find new customers through search engine optimization, I have learned that this is perfectly acceptable in google's eyes, most importantly if you link back to the original source, which I have done many times. If you post a comment on a forum it is not your content but that of the owner of the forum. I received Scooter's permission to repost, and now I'm being lambasted as a total bastard.
Anyway, i was contemplating dredging through this forum to update my dbase, but if this is the reaction I get I guess I'll just let it rest. My site will remain because it doesn't cost much. I guess I'm just a left brain type of mathematical person and for me it is more convenient to see things lined up in a table format than to peruse all sorts of text. I also enjoy putting together such online dbases as it is practice and an interesting challenge. Not much benefit so far, considering all the work I invested into it, but maybe someone will appreciate the core stuff put into a concise format. Call them lazy, but when school is coming to a close and you're trying to cram every second into exams, while thinking about a good paying job for the summer to pay for tuition and all that, I found every second counted. It's not lazy at all but trying to allocate one's time in the most efficient manner. Then again, maybe it's the left side of my brain talking again. Math etc. has always been my best subject.
What concerns posting others' pictures, I hesitated on this, and decided the following: it would take a ridiculous amount of time to find out who the photographer is and ask. So I decided, if someone has a problem, either I remove the pic or, preferably, simply link to their online photography profile. I think that is a fair deal. No one has approached me about this, although I see above there is a complaint. I have also put together photography sites to promote friends, and I myself enjoy the hobby and post tons of my pictures while travelling. So I can link to the photographer from many different photography related sites - not a problem.

chrisdunn · Post by **chrisdunn** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:35 pm

I was over at your website checking it out.

First thing that impressed me was a sentence under the title How to plant a tree:

A plot is a circle with a radius of 8 feet. Most planters will be asked to carry with them a plot cord measuring 8 metres long, to help them regulate their spacing.

I've spun a lot of plots over the past 11 years, my cord was 3.99 Meters. The radius of my plot was obviously 3.99 meters for a total area of 50 meters. I guess i've been doing it wrong.

*Edited for color

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:32 pm

Wrote a lot of that from memory, from a time when I was planting more than 20 years ago. Heck, maybe that was even before Canada went metric. But seems a bit odd to ask a planter to carry around a plot cord that long, as they have enough load to carry as it is. If you're a forester or checker and that's mostly all you have to carry I can see the practicality of a longer plot cord, as you can check a larger area. But for a planter I'm sure a simple mathematical calculation would convert the numbers to a shorter plot cord (ie- 12 trees per 8ft cord = 100 trees per 3.99m - just guessing). Don't know what the present recommendation is for planters but would be happy to update the info.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:47 pm

I've spun a lot of plots over the past 11 years, my cord was 3.99 Meters. The radius of my plot was obviously 3.99 meters for a total area of 50 meters. I guess i've been doing it wrong.

Canada went Metric mostly in 1975-1977. Sadly, I remember the changes.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:00 pm

Which 7 years did you plant?

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:08 pm

Actually, must still be suffering from the conversion because I automatically assumed 50 square metres was much larger, but 3.99m is only 13.09 feet, so not that much longer (although I don't know what's up with the .01 shy of an even 4). I updated the info and thanks for the tip, although now I'm not sure what the average number of trees in a plot should be. I guessed and increased it from 7 to 11.
I think I planted between 1986 and 1992, and then for one year about three years ago. Old bones still managed, and I managed the same earnings too, even though I was more conscientious about each tree. Didn't want to slop them in anymore.

Rainman · Post by **Rainman** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:50 am

Hey Kenax,

Why did you steal my photos? You never asked for any kind of permission. When I emailed you, I never got a reply. I do not agree with your usage. Your site is filled with poor information and I do not want to endorse it with my photos.

Consider this as a formal request to take down any copyright infringements (basically all of the photos) on your site.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:39 pm

Hey Rainman, if I didn't respond it would be because I didn't recognize it from the subject and if it had landed in my spambox, if you wrote me directly. I check all my spam but I get a high volume of it. You can write me directly at kenax@kenax.net. I need to know which pictures are yours. I'll write you directly as well.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:38 pm

So, 3 years ago, in which province, did you use a plot cord that you think was probably about 8 feet?

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:48 pm

I already stated that most of the stuff I wrote was drawn from memory when I was planting 20 years ago, when I did a six year stretch. I don't remember the length I was told of the cord I carried with me 3 years ago. Mostly planted in BC, three years ago about half the time in Alberta. I already updated the info to say 3.99m.

chrisdunn · Post by **chrisdunn** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:53 pm

kenax wrote:Wrote a lot of that from memory, from a time when I was planting more than 20 years ago. Heck, maybe that was even before Canada went metric. But seems a bit odd to ask a planter to carry around a plot cord that long, as they have enough load to carry as it is. If you're a forester or checker and that's mostly all you have to carry I can see the practicality of a longer plot cord, as you can check a larger area. But for a planter I'm sure a simple mathematical calculation would convert the numbers to a shorter plot cord (ie- 12 trees per 8ft cord = 100 trees per 3.99m - just guessing). Don't know what the present recommendation is for planters but would be happy to update the info.

Fair enough, I can't remember a lot of stuff from 20 years ago. I had just discovered girls and my balls were just dropping around then...

Checkers doing pay plots use the same equipment as planters. Instead of a normal d handle shovel they might use a hippie stick. And the same 3.99m plot cord. Say they're looking for 1400 stems/ha, there's 200 50 m2 plots in a ha (10 000 m2), so that'll be a density average of 7's.

The headscratcher for me was both the 8 feet and 8 meters. The only other plot cord I was aware of was the 5.64 meter one used for 100 m2 plots. And i've never seen one used because the 3.99 meter one works fine for pay plots, or even veg plots that i've done for other surveys.
Not trying to school you, but it's basic stuff that I think you are trying to teach rookies. No point confusing them even more.

You might want to go over the "hourglass" airpockets as well. It's something that i've noticed very recently that checkers in drier climates are keen on getting planters not to create them when covering their plugs.

Also I would wonder if companies would really get emails for rookie planters the way i'm thinking that it's set up. They might just mark it as junk or spam as well, unless i've got my wires crossed and misunderstand the process.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 pm

The rules have changed quite a bit since 20 years ago. I started my season 3 years ago screefing like a bobo, and learned that the forestry came to the more sound conclusion that nature covers the soil with duff for a reason - to help insulate it from the direct sun, and provide some nourishment maybe. Took me a while to adjust.
Any tips you have I'll gladly add it, as I'm not sure what an "hourglass" airpocket is. I guess from a back cut or something to sandwhich in the plug, but leaving some of the root exposed to air underneath, which could dry out the seedling and kill it?

What concerns the email campaign, what's the difference between a company receiving an application from a translator who presses on their Contact link, from one that is sent through my system? I already have all their email addresses. A planter can spend over an hour trying to find the email addresses of these companies, or use their online contact form, or pay 50 bucks if they have little time. The emails appear as if sent it to them directly, from their own email account, Reply To is to them, and sent only to that company (no massive CCs or BCCs, as each email is sent separately). Why would it end in their spambox? I also purchased my own IP address for this server to help prevent this (I provide this service in other areas, and I've only had two customers in this treeplanting one over the last three years).
But since I accumulated the 70+ email address of treeplanting companies, more than 50 have subscribed, so now the list is up to more than 130. I have no clue if they are legitimate treeplanting companies, but every email sent has an easy unsubscribe button at the bottom.
Also, some thousand+ treeplanters have signed up for free to receive notifications of treeplanting jobs. You never know if a company needs more treeplanters for a particular contract, or if a treeplanter is dissatisfied with the contract they are working on. For this I charge the companies a hundred bucks. None of this has made up for all the work I put into making this site. It was mostly to sell my accounting software, but on the side I wanted to offer a public service, because I was not happy to be so short-changed after a long season of hard work. The comments are not even accessible to google, so they don't help me in any direct way.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:30 pm

You might want to go over the "hourglass" airpockets as well.

The Ministry of Forests has pretty close to eliminated air pockets as a fault as of the latest revision of their FS 704 guide, effective April 2012. Incidentally, this was the first revision of the 704 system since about 1998 or 1999.

Also I would wonder if companies would really get emails for rookie planters ....

My concern, albeit an abstract one, is that the easier it is for new planters to get jobs, the less valuable experienced planters become. We don't want a system where vets can be "tossed aside" by employers who say something along the lines of "screw them, we'll just hire twice as many rookies instead, since we're getting thousands of applications." I'm not suggesting that this happens right now, and actually, I believe that many contractors currently recognize the value of their experienced work forces (perhaps more so in the past couple of years than for many previous years). So I'm just thinking about theoretical concepts here, but I'm wary of any sort of promotion that says "here's a chance to get high-paying jobs" without a VERY balanced discussion about the negative aspects of the work at the same time.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:17 am

well, one big difference I noticed this time around from when I used to plant is that, now, the average age is much younger. Before it was spread across different ages much more. A great shift seems to have taken place towards using younger planters, who are more likely to expend their bodies, push it harder, to cover tuition or whatever. At least for easier ground. For tougher, coastal ground, vets are preferred. I believe that vets have an intrinsic value in the sense that the operating costs of each planter is high but fixed. Feed them, drive them out each day etc., but a faster planter will generate higher profits, because they incur the same costs but put more trees into the ground. I assume the company makes about as much money per tree as the treeplanter. So the more a planter puts in the ground a day, the higher the profits. Like I said, I've only had two such customers over the past 3 years, so I am certainly not flooding the market with a cheap labour force. Most people who enquire seem to go on and approach the companies themselves, I assume probably because they'd rather save the 50 bucks, being poor university students. The companies have their online, automated application forms. It's just the way supply and demand works. I'm sure they could easily post ads at universities advertising for cheap and reusable labour if they wanted to. Probably a better strategy for easy, flat ground like in Quebec or Ontario. I never planted there and it has mostly always been tougher ground in BC, which I prefer. More ergonomic and interesting, and mentally challenging. Anyway, I think it will remain a revolving door industry. It's hard on your body, and unless you get onto the coast most planters will probably just rather move on to something less physically stressful. If you're a veteran who has fallen into hard times and needs some quick cash, I find it fairly easy to get onto a good crew, even after so long out of commission. Because experience does have its value, for the reasons I mentioned. It's costly to train a new rookie and make marginal earnings from them, until they get the hang of it.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:22 am

I think that everything you've just said is fairly perceptive.

chrisdunn · Post by **chrisdunn** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:30 pm

kenax wrote: I started my season 3 years ago screefing like a bobo, and learned that the forestry came to the more sound conclusion that nature covers the soil with duff for a reason - to help insulate it from the direct sun, and provide some nourishment maybe. Took me a while to adjust.

Any tips you have I'll gladly add it, as I'm not sure what an "hourglass" airpocket is. I guess from a back cut or something to sandwhich in the plug, but leaving some of the root exposed to air underneath, which could dry out the seedling and kill it?

It depends on where you go. All of the ground I plant in has to be screefed.

The hourglass is when you stick your shovel in hard ground and pull it back and forth creating a triangle shaped hole below the bottom half of your plug, and a hole on top. The tree goes in and the top hole is hand closed. It looks like a good tree, but a checker sticks his or her fingers in either side of the plug and pushes down looking for air. If they are able to push down easily, they'll pull the plug and stick their 4 fingers in and sure enough, you can feel a hole underneath the width of a shovel.

What you're saying with the back cut along with the roots still exposed to air, we call a "smiley face" because the checker pushes his fingers in on either side of the plug, it actually looks like a happy face in the ground.

It's a concern on unscarified blocks around Lillooet, Cache Creek, dry hot places like that. Same with the screefing, we have to do an 8" by 8" square in the bunchgrass ground. Because the grass will compete with the tree for water without a proper screef.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:59 am

as to borrowing information from replant.ca... i don't remember my own complaints with your site exactly and i don't have time to revisit it now, but i think it was less you borrowing photos, which is common in the blogosphere, and more that you were posting dialogue from these private forums. which i'm sure i and others made clear in our posts here. you may feel confident that you're not hurting anyone with your selective posting, but some of us like the assurance that what we post here isn't going on google.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:29 am

well, from my understanding, this thread is
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65186
I just searched it on google and it seems to be indexed, which means that ANYTHING posted on this entire forum is on google. I set up this exact same open source script myself and know how it is set up. It's a bit of work to block from google. My site is my own script and google cannot access. If you want to verify then take some text (comments posted) and surround it with " " and run a search. My site will not show up for sure.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:52 pm

Tried to write you a private message highballer but couldn't find the link for that.
What concerns the pictures, as I mentioned before, I am perfectly happy to link to a photographer's online profile to give them credit. I think this would be more fruitful then to take everything down. I was poised to do that and replace them with my own travel pictures, just to stop all this hassle. I don't profit from these pictures and i was just trying to make the reading more pleasant. It's mostly just my own personal tips how to plant faster. I got short changed and thought I'd turn a negative into a positive by making it easier for rookies to compare the reputation of treeplanting companies, which in turn could affect their motivation to be more fair with their planters. Linking to your photo profile is another way of turning a negative to a positive. Otherwise I just end up spending a lot of time removing pictures and replacing them with my own. It will not affect my rankings or my primary motive for the site, so it just ends up being a lot of pointless, wasted work that leads to nothing.

Tnalp · Post by **Tnalp** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:29 pm

Take all pictures down that you did not get permission to use!! Stop whining about "pointless work" and "waste of time"... If you had put up your own "travel pictures" from the beginning you would have been avoided this!!! Take em down now!!! Seriously!!!

sghyselincks · Post by **sghyselincks** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:03 pm

According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means:

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
to use (another's production) without crediting the source
to commit literary theft
to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

Taken off plagiarism.org

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:17 pm

Okay, whatever, took out the pics from these two pages
http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/photogr ... nting.html
http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/photogr ... ing_2.html
and will have to do the other pages once I'm done with this project I'm working on.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:08 am

i was under the assumption that one needed to log in to these forums to read most messages. if they can in fact be indexed then that would at times influence what i write. not often, but sometimes.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:23 pm

There appears to be a ghost in the machine. In theory, only four forums should be visible to people who aren't logged in: Q&A, Safety, YouTubes, and Music. The other ones should only be visible to registered users. I was doing some updates a few weeks ago and I must have screwed it up then, because up to that point I could only see four forums when I wasn't logged in. Working on it right now, hope to have it fixed shortly ...

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:03 pm

Found the problem, and fixed. The cloak of partial invisibility has once again descended.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:44 pm

grabbed a snippet from this page "easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against", ran it through google with the quotation marks for exact phrase, directed me to

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... RUSMuXgwJQ

but figured that would be the case cause it will probably remain in google's cache for about a week
That link correctly redirected me

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65186&view=print

which I could not see when I pasted that into another browser I was not logged in with. So it works (it is cloaked). These scripts can get finicky. One other reason to not keep this public is that you can get sued for libel, but the rest of the forum would obviously be fine.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Regardless of whether it is public or private, the outcome of a lawsuit for libel would be decided upon the content, not whether or not the "public" can see it.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:16 pm

well, from my understanding it depends on the content AND that it is available to the public. That is the exact definition of libel. But if you have a private forum viewable only to members then no one can apparently sue you.