Next Generation Reforestation (NGR)

replant · Post by **replant** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:44 pm

This thread is devoted to gossip and discussion for employees and stakeholders of Next Generation Reforestation.

This company is believed to work predominantly in Alberta.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:34 am

Worked for Dom's crew at the end of last summer; I was very impressed with Dom and the foremen, they were on top of everything, all the time, as well the camp setup (it was a small camp), and the food was amazing! It was a predominately franco camp, which I think had a lot to do with it, lol, they seemed to take their food pretty seriously, but wow! A big part of it was that their food budget was ENORMOUS and they had a lot of good culinary equipment, which allowed the cook, Francois (who is a pastry-chef when not planting) to really weave some magic. Incidentally, he also planted 1800 trees the first day he ever tried planting, which was enormously impressive (cream and help all day from a great foreman, but still).

I wasn't overly impressed with how head office treated us initially, they kind of tossed us around (at one point we got into Whitevale, called to say we were there, and they go "oh, they're in Fort. St. John now") without financially compensating us for the time/money we lost on transportation/hotels chasing down the crew we were supposed to be joining on their misguided direction, but it was the end of the season and that's kind of the way this industry works, so in perspective perhaps it's not overly indicitive of their attitude to new hires.

They made up for it largely, in my mind, when Gord (one of of the owners) drove the three of us remaining in camp all the way to P.G. at 10p.m. at night so that one of us could catch a flight - talking to him on the drive he seemed like a very down to earth guy.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:39 pm

i like gord, from the bit i've spoken with him. this company is quite big now, and it seems to vary a lot on the contract... one i worked on for canfor was awful, while the other i did near manning was great, highly organized and people made money. and they have a few other exceptional shows from what i've heard.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:35 am

krahn wrote:i like gord, from the bit i've spoken with him. this company is quite big now, and it seems to vary a lot on the contract... one i worked on for canfor was awful, while the other i did near manning was great, highly organized and people made money. and they have a few other exceptional shows from what i've heard.

I think that's dead on.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:16 am

here's an interesting factoid:

for the past 15 years Gord has been clothing himself exclusively with clothes that planters have left in various camps. No joke.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:31 am

That concept seems quite reasonable, until you start to think about socks and underwear.

Mikejwise · Post by **Mikejwise** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:19 am

I am a seven year vet, planted in AB for 3, foremanned for two, and planted another two in BC. At the end of my first year in BC (contract ending mid July) I decided I wanted to extend the season a bit more before going back to school, and ran into some friends who had planted for Next Gen. They told me to talk to Gord or Cathy (? Gord's wife??), they would be looking for a few more people to push for the season end. After a few weeks of off and on conversation with Cathy (if it's the wrong name forgive me you will understand why I don't remember soon) we finally had everything sorted out and were on our way up to Hines Creek (NW AB) for a contract with Canfor. Supposedly a total straight-plant cream show, we were told to leave our helmets at home and hurry up there. So we show up to our campsite, there is NOBODY there.. Okay, we are a bit early, no big deal. A few people show up with the mess tent and a few other camp items and we set it up and toss some smokies on the barby and chill for contract startup the next day. Show up at the meeting the next am and the staff are asking us why we don't have helmets?? What?! So whatever no big deal, contract is fly-in so we take the chopper into the block. Well, it was apparent once we got to the block that we had been duped into planting for Next Gen with empty promises of vast cream with the sun beating down on our non-helmet-wearing foreheads!! Myself and the two others that came with me planted a combined total of I would guess 450 trees and told our foreman to send for the chopper. We donated our trees to some guy, then when we got flown out helped unload 750 boxes into a main cache, then got the eff out of dodge. So beware all, if it sounds too good to be true, most likely it is!

On another note, the staff there were super nice, alot of the guys we had worked with at the now defunct Bruin Reforestation (Louis, Dom both great foreman but don't trust Dom to read a map properly or keep the trucks out of the ditches!! Haha) seemed to be getting along okay out there. They had a pretty good laugh when we bailed and told our foreman (Louis who had foremanned us at Bruin) to get us the hell out of there. I am guessing they just laughed because they knew it was total BS. Perhaps we just hit them on a bad contract, but I have a feeling that is not the case as I heard stories about the previous contract that was a total crapshoot.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:40 am

I agree, the staff there are always really nice, but you can't believe anything Gord or Cathy say. I could never decide if they were flat out lying to people, or they just didn't know what was going on and were misinformed. I don't know which is worse....

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:18 pm

Worked for 6 days- had to leave due to my BFF death. Food was amazing, we worked for Lawrence. Camp life was great- good people. wood work for them again. I found the Bucannon scene brutal because NGR doesn't employ you. I have never been sub-sub contracted before..It was just a little different. Would probable try it again-just to see. I have worked with Dom but he was just a planter and it was with Little trees- His map reading skills I cant comment about-but he drove a truck just fine. Marchina his girl knew how to plant & plant well! Oh!! Mike Richards rules and they have wireless satellite so you can email from you tent if you got a lap top. I found that to be very cool!!

somesilviguy · Post by **somesilviguy** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:25 pm

Looking for recent information and/or first hand accounts of these guys. If anyone can contribute I would be grateful.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:22 pm

somesilviguy wrote:Looking for recent information and/or first hand accounts of these guys. If anyone can contribute I would be grateful.

Did some cleanup work with them at the end of last season - decent prices (considering). Their food is usually very good, pay has never to my knowledge been a problem within any of their camps.

Hit or miss depending on what contract you land on it seems though, and it appears their bids have dropped significantly both last year and for the upcoming year. That's complete hearsay on my part, but I do believe it has some credibility based upon the number of grumblings I heard from some of their guys at the end of the season and what their BCTS bids are coming in at. They tend to run smaller camps, foremen are day-rated (so they don't have "crews" within the camp really). I've worked with their supervisor Dom on two occasions, he's a stand up guy that rewards good planters and good effort. Experienced, good foremen in his camp.

Bottom line is, considering you're not asking about a particular contract or camp, I'd say NGR pays about industry standard, treats their employees average to above average, and is less likely to pull something sketchy (based upon my best guess) than some of the other shows out there.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:10 am

Can anyone out their offer insight into the manning contract, or any interior work, specifically around kelowna, that this company have done.

chena · Post by **chena** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:56 am

Manning has historically been a great contract... fast land & fairly relaxed specs.
The Kelowna job is a new one. NGR has no history working there.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:41 pm

manning was the best contract i did with them, decent money, however wildwoods which i did right after seemed to get a cent more for the same land, at the time.

millpounder · Post by **millpounder** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:16 am

Wondering if anyone here will be working with NGR, on "Dom's crew" in the Quesnel area?

Any info on prices, type of land that people have historically encountered with this contract?

I know Dom's a good guy (worked with him before) but it's been a while since I've rolled with Next Gen.

chena · Post by **chena** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:34 pm

This will be NGR's third year doing the spring contract in Quesnel. It looks like a really solid contract this year. Most of the blocks are freshly prepped with mounds & trenches. The raw blocks are decent... no insane rock beds like we've seen in the past. Everything is relatively flat.
Prices have been renegotiated and will probably be about a cent more per tree than last year.
I'm sure Dom would give you more specific info if you asked. PM me if you want his email.

millpounder · Post by **millpounder** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:52 pm

To any NGR planters heading to Quesnel to plant for what is presumably may 1st:

I live in the Edmonton area and am wouldn't mind giving someone a lift out there with me. Gas money split 50/50.

Send me a PM if interested.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:02 am

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:17 pm

With the permission of Scooter I just copied updated information from this thread to the Treeplanter’s Database found at http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/ to make it easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against one another, in the hopes that they will treat and pay their planters better.

Leon · Post by **Leon** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:05 pm

Any updated info on these guys from the 2011 season?

Edit: And perhaps any predictions for 2012?

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:15 pm

If you cruise the bid sheets you can see they have a good chunk of work in BC this coming spring. Typically, NGR will have BC work starting in early May, lasting until late June, and will shuffle crews out to Alberta starting in June. There is the potential for a long season there. This can be a bonus for rookies who can have a harder time catching on with a different company mid-way through a season. I will vouch for the others that sing the praises of the NGR cooks, really amongst the best in the industry : )

Leon · Post by **Leon** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:53 pm

jdtesluk wrote:If you cruise the bid sheets you can see they have a good chunk of work in BC this coming spring. Typically, NGR will have BC work starting in early May, lasting until late June, and will shuffle crews out to Alberta starting in June. There is the potential for a long season there. This can be a bonus for rookies who can have a harder time catching on with a different company mid-way through a season. I will vouch for the others that sing the praises of the NGR cooks, really amongst the best in the industry : )

Thanks!

korno · Post by **korno** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:41 am

they tried that a couple years ago. Thinking they could bang off 800,000 in the east kootenays in month and got totally killed by snow. If next year is anything like last year they may not be able to start the 1.3 million bcts contract they got there till at least the second week of may.

pantsareamyth · Post by **pantsareamyth** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:36 pm

I'm thinking of applying to NGR (would-be rookie) but their online job application requires my SIN. How legit is this?

Gingerplanter · Post by **Gingerplanter** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:48 pm

pantsareamyth wrote:I'm thinking of applying to NGR (would-be rookie) but their online job application requires my SIN. How legit is this?

If you work in Canada you must supply your SIN number. I don't really see how it would be illegitimate.

jules · Post by **jules** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:57 pm

pantsareamyth wrote:I'm thinking of applying to NGR (would-be rookie) but their online job application requires my SIN. How legit is this?

They really shouldn't require you to give them your SIN before they hire you. They probably have it set up that way to make their paperwork easier to do if you get hired. I don't think NGR is out to commit identity theft, if that's what you're asking. That said, I would e-mail them, rather than put sensitive information into an unsecured job app that will probably never be given a second glance.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:22 am

It might also be because they want to make sure the applications aren't coming in from foreign workers without SIN's.

It really would suck to hire someone and have them show up in camp, and on the first day, you suddenly realize they aren't legally allowed to work in Canada.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:31 am

NGR is a legit company. They are not going to misuse your information. I'f you're really concerned, give them a call. The owners are very personable.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:36 am

jdtesluk wrote:NGR is a legit company.

thats open to debate. they're a company, anyways...

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:51 pm

lets get debating then...

Jimbo the Mook · Post by **Jimbo the Mook** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:51 pm

I hear their food is quite delicious.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:05 pm

well, ive never worked for them myself, so i couldnt give you a first-hand review.... however, i can think of dozens of planters who have, and i havent heard even one of them say that it was a good company and the rest of us should work there. quite the opposite, actually. so i base my opinion on that. many people have told me about the wonderful food they serve, but my mom serves wonderful food, and that certainly doesnt make me want to plant trees for her.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:08 pm

but even so, i guess its not fair of me to say they aren't legit... just bottom-tier-ish.

Rainman · Post by **Rainman** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:17 pm

I've never heard anything great from the planters I know that have been through there. The overall feedback I have heard was that it was not well organized and pretty low tree prices. Keep in mind, this is from experienced veteran planters who went to NGR to fill up a July, after the "good" work dried up.

All in all, it's probably a half-decent place to start off a planting career. Some may agree and some may dis-agree. Once you consider yourself a "good planter" or "vet" you might want to consider looking around at other companies that might offer something better.

McgeeMcgee · Post by **McgeeMcgee** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:23 pm

I am looking for some info about NGR's August work. Does anyone have any info from last year? I heard that their Manning contract is still pretty decent. If so does anybody have contact info for the supervisor.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:25 am

A couple of the ELF people I knew said that NGR was some of the least-awful large company july plant material they'd seen, though apparently it was quite hit and miss. In general, I suspect there are two major tiers; small, one camp (maybe two), doing well priced work for 30-55 days, and larger companies that are worse. Distinguishing within those categories is probably hard.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:41 pm

I've spent the past two seasons working for NGR, and have had a good experience overall, although there have certainly been frustrating times. With this company, I feel it’s important to distinguish between its operations within BC and Alberta. Within BC it is very fair to point out that it is a level or two (maybe 3) behind the upper tier companies, a phenomenon I attribute to their reliance on public bid BCTS work, with no supplementary work from private mills or significantly long standing jobs. Having said that, I believe they are a long stretch from the well-known "bottom feeders" of the BC silviculture industry, always providing at least average prices on the jobs I have worked.
The biggest advantage in working with NGR, is the quantity and caliber of their work within Alberta, where they operate usually until the end of august. This is where the company is based and has a long history, and a very strong reputation. Like any larger companies, they’re will be some discrepancies in organization and quality of contract depending on which job you’re on, and who you’re working for. But even with the slight variation between contracts and camps, it is the possibility of channelling from an average BC contract to an often exceptional job in Alberta smoothly that is one of their biggest assets in terms of making them an exceptional place to work, and attracting good planters.
I think one of the reasons why so frequently you here of planters that come and plant for the summer season after working elsewhere during the spring having bad experiences is a result of them being placed in contracts that are, let’s say “more challenging”, as that is where they will need planters the most.
The other advantage in working with NGR, is the absolutely over the top caliber of food. Standard dinner will be things like ribs, t bone or rib eye steaks, full Japanese nights(consisting of chicken and salmon teriyaki, a few different varieties of sushi, not just California rolls, fresh fish is always included, Japanese salads, miso soup) or comparable Indian, Greek, Italian, and so on themed nights. Every night when you get home you can expect to have three salads, a homemade soup and bread, an appetizer consisting of something like brie, smoked salmon and crackers, accompanied by a hot beverage on cold days and a cold one (not beer) on hot days. Beyond this, the small things that are accounted for within the kitchen are integral, a dozen different kinds of tea, different breads like wraps, rolls, bagels, 5 or 6 kinds of fruit, 4 kinds of cheese, 5 options of sandwich meats, 4 or 5 kinds of cereal, homemade cookies, brownies, cakes, "energy balls" or butter tarts (usually 3 different out at a time, and more variety that i cant remember), 6 kinds of mustard, 6 hot sauces, and more importantly, these things are readily available at all times, like anything else in the fridge or kitchen tent. You can expect this for 33 dollars a day in Alberta, and 25 in BC. The latter figure may be a little startling, it’s important to point out that other Albertan companies charge similar amounts (Northern, Wildwoods), and offer, from what Ive heard of planters that have planted for both, lower quality food.
In camp you are not expected to do anything, I’ve never done a dish and have done 2 paid reefers for NGR. The core staff for NGR are experienced and predominantly good quality, with foreman with the better part of twenty years experience not uncommon. They are paid day rate and you are not assigned to a set foreman at all times, instead they work cooperatively. The company is still very much a mom and pop shop, with both owners being very involved in the voerall and often day to day operations. Despite its size it has a small company feel because of this, and the owner’s son even runs a camp.
In short, NGR pays every two weeks, offers what is likely the longest non-coastal season in Canada, runs a safe camp, treats their employees very fair and you can expect the opportunity to make very good money. All of the aforementioned statements are based on my experiences in one camp, and what I have heard of others, so it is certainly a skewed opinion of the company on the whole, but nonetheless honest. Although I have worked for quite a few different companies, take my opinion with a grain of salt, I know of people (including a few of my friends) that didn’t enjoy their experience as much, and would offer a different review.

Mike - I'm good friends with a few of those ELFers.

McGeeMcgee - I've done the Manning job and its great

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:24 pm

dreamofcream wrote:I've done the Manning job for the past two summers and its great

I can confirm that dreamofcream sees the Manning contract in his (miso?) soup all winter long...(this might be yet another example of me literally translating a french saying)

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:57 pm

You can expect this for 33 dollars a day in Alberta, and 25 in BC.

its $30 in ab & $25 in BC. This allows for unlimited food budget & its worth every penny.I have worked for so many companies over the last 2 decades & I have grown tired of politics & BS. It was a happy relief to go with a company like NGR. They treat their planters better than some of these "so called " amazing top notch companies. Planters do come first & favoritism isnt rampant like other companies. Im going back next yr!

inga_b · Post by **inga_b** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:12 am

It really depends what crew you are on - Lawrence and Will's crews are really good, however they tend to hire people recommended by planters already working in their crew. With them you'll get a fair treatment, a long season, ridiculously good food and longtime vets to guide you. (The average age at Lawrence's crew is about 26)
Don't know about Marcena, but I would give Dom and Dale a skip.

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 am

inga_b wrote: Don't know about Marcena, but I would give Dom and Dale a skip.

Having worked with Marchena, Dom & Dale. I think that your information is not correct. Although, I have planted with 2 of the 3. I would say that the above mentioned are professional, respectful & their camps run smoothly. Just curious , as to why this is you conclusion. Is it based on experience or hearsay.

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:14 pm

Have to agree with Inga, too much favortism in Doms camp to recommend anyone work there. Its also pretty well known that Lawrence and Will get the much better contracts.

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:22 am

I, personally, have never worked for Dom but Ive planted with him & Marchena. So, I can only base my opinion on my experience. both of them where professional & respectful.
I worked for Dale this year in management. Dale was organized & there was no favoritism. I found camp life pretty good. We had the best Cook I have ever had in my 2 decade career. We had some issues with snow - but who didn't in the early season. Prices were reasonable, people made money once they got used to the specs. It can be a challenge for planters who have a couple yrs experience & often need to be guided for a shift before they can get it.

headlessgraphiteaxe · Post by **headlessgraphiteaxe** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:34 pm

Screefhead wrote: Its also pretty well known that Lawrence and Will get the much better contracts.

I don't know about that, Dom's camp got the Manning contract in 2012. I heard it went pretty well.

wtv · Post by **wtv** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:05 pm

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:46 pm

It's so obvious why these reviews are so all over the place. You have the faithful NGR planters who have great things to say about them, and you have the random hires from the mid season who don't.

I've been the random hire before at NGR, and the random hires never get much of a chance to make money. In fact, I'm convinced that it's NGR policy to hire like crazy all the time, and throw the random new people into the absolute shit, so that the favorites can get preferential treatment- get flown straight from camp to nice land, and dump boxes in the greenery(let's not pretend this isn't happening).

Last time I worked for NGR, our 'crew' drove to a quad access block and walked in over an hour every day, which would be fine if everyone had to put in their time on this block(something a better company would do), but of course the ballers were flying from camp and getting full days of work. I believe we did this for 8 or 9 days before we decided to quit, and I bet some other new hires had to finish what we started, since the camp had people showing up and quitting almost on a daily basis, it was a real revolving door.

I'm sure this business strategy makes them money, but it's flawed, in that there is no incentive for any decent planters to show up mid-season if they aren't tight with the company or management. Hopefully at some point nobody will.

Camp conditions were appalling too, we stayed at an old abandoned logging camp, broken glass and industrial garbage everywhere, dry tent was torn down the middle and didn't work, shower was just a hose hanging in a tent, mess tent was muddy with a river flowing down the middle of it.

YES the food was good, they are famous for their good food... It seems more noticeable when everything else is shitty. The cooks were amazing, it seemed like they did all the work in camp. I hope they were paid well.

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:36 pm

Sounds familiar, it wasn't this camp was it

and your block looked something like this ?

wtv · Post by **wtv** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 am

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:33 pm

wtv wrote: This isn't policy of throwing newbies in the shit, it's logistics. Put new people in where help is needed. Period.

Period all you want, but we were thrown into shit for 8 days in a block that could have been finished much quicker with help from the rest of the camp, or have people switched out for us. It's not difficult, and I know what logistics are and how they work. Fair companies make sure that everybody gets a shot at making money. I told Dom that I thought it was bullshit that we were getting 2+ hours less of a workday in terrible land, and he gave me the same logistics bs, he said it was all too complicated to change anything. So we quit. Get with it, planters are wise to how things work in this business, it's not rocket science. You take a piece of land, and put planters and trees near it.

wtv wrote: I can't say anything to defend the management styles of Dom (i'm pretty sure he's who Hamsterizer and Screefhead worked for on that contract) because I have never worked for him. I'm not saying NGR is a perfect company where nothing bad ever happens (I've stayed at aforementioned abandoned logging camp before too) but for fucks sake... it's one thing to have a bad experience with one supervisor on one contract and another to extrapolate it to some sort of evil scheme relating to the entire management style of the company.

I've planted a couple of contracts over the years with NGR, and it's always the same. Random hordes showing up out of nowhere to take over from the random hordes that just left. They are very fortunate to have a season that lines up with the downtime of most of the workforce, and they abuse that privilege, by treating new people poorly, and having a revolving door of workers. They don't lose any money by having someone show up, hack away at some terrible piece for a few days and then quit.

They've always been a last resort for me, and should be for everyone else. Alberta summer planting is just lame and boring anyways, walking through 6 foot grass all day is just a fucking frustrating bore. I don't know why anybody does it. But it's especially worse when you know that most of the camp is somewhere better, and they aren't going to help you.

Here's some logistics for you... If you have a really bad block, you make everyone in camp do the same amount of days in it. That's what a good, fair company does. It's way easier when you know that everyone is in the same boat.

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:41 am

Here's some logistics for you... If you have a really bad block, you make everyone in camp do the same amount of days in it. That's what a good, fair company does. It's way easier when you know that everyone is in the same boat.

Or you just pay the appropriate price for the tougher land, and everyone makes money no matter where they are. After all there is no such thing is bad land.