Brinkman and Associates

[East]

I have a question for any past or present Brinkman planters from Ontario:

Did anyone plant the Hornepayne/White River contracts? I hear they range from "average" to rock cap shit show. Just wondering if the assessor's interpretation was fair.

Thanks

Yep, sounds about rite. Don't forget to eat those black flies for protein.

[dirt rich]

Hey there comrades! I'm looking around for coastal work and have an option to go with Barry Needham's (brinkman) crew
in the North Island, and then the Koots. Anyone have anything to say about the merits/otherwise of that scene? I would appreciate any input. Cheers

[RPF]

Good guy to work for...

[eoline]

The money is decent but there are 2 things to consider :
-You will be staying in a tent on the coast in March. They are the last company to hold onto this practice. It can get cold and miserable, everybody else chooses planter comfort and conditions above cost savings !!!
-Get used to crew planting. You will not have your own piece all season but be planting with a 6-pack. They are not flexible with this and again it is a way of essentially reducing management costs to add to the profit margin.

[keith]

The tent isn't so bad because the six-pack sleeps together too.

[dirt rich]

The money is decent but there are 2 things to consider :
-You will be staying in a tent on the coast in March. They are the last company to hold onto this practice. It can get cold and miserable, everybody else chooses planter comfort and conditions above cost savings !!!
-Get used to crew planting. You will not have your own piece all season but be planting with a 6-pack. They are not flexible with this and again it is a way of essentially reducing management costs to add to the profit margin.

Does this cost saving carry over to higher Tree prices? That would be the company's angle I imagine.

[dirt rich]

The tent isn't so bad because the six-pack sleeps together too.

That could be alright if the crews were gender balanced

[eoline]

The money is decent but there are 2 things to consider :
-You will be staying in a tent on the coast in March. They are the last company to hold onto this practice. It can get cold and miserable, everybody else chooses planter comfort and conditions above cost savings !!!
-Get used to crew planting. You will not have your own piece all season but be planting with a 6-pack. They are not flexible with this and again it is a way of essentially reducing management costs to add to the profit margin.

Does this cost saving carry over to higher Tree prices? That would be the company's angle I imagine.

That would be the company angle but it is certainly not the case in my experience.

[Gingerplanter]

The money is decent but there are 2 things to consider :
-You will be staying in a tent on the coast in March. They are the last company to hold onto this practice. It can get cold and miserable, everybody else chooses planter comfort and conditions above cost savings !!!
-Get used to crew planting. You will not have your own piece all season but be planting with a 6-pack. They are not flexible with this and again it is a way of essentially reducing management costs to add to the profit margin.

Does this cost saving carry over to higher Tree prices? That would be the company's angle I imagine.

No but it means more profits for Dirk, whose tent in Vancouver can easily fit a 6 pack.

[eoline]

Oh, and if you have any snow outs make sure you bring a propane stove. The kitchen will be shut down and there is no where to eat in Woss...non-vehicle owners are screwed. Each to his own at that point.

[East]

The money is decent but there are 2 things to consider :
-You will be staying in a tent on the coast in March. They are the last company to hold onto this practice. It can get cold and miserable, everybody else chooses planter comfort and conditions above cost savings !!!
-Get used to crew planting. You will not have your own piece all season but be planting with a 6-pack. They are not flexible with this and again it is a way of essentially reducing management costs to add to the profit margin.

How exactly does crew planting reduce management costs?

[PlantinTaders]

Instead of paying 11 or 12 or 14% of trees planted to a commission foreman who then cuts planters into pieces, the foreman is payed a flat rate of lets say $25 per planter head and everyone(including the foreman) cattle plants the same piece. So no matter how many trees the crew plants, the management cost of the foreman pay remains fixed.

Works great from the point of view of company management types, or brainwashed brinkmart planters who learned it that way and know no alternative, but not so much for serious planters used to planting in pieces and expecting to make money.

[Scooter]

That's an interesting idea (not one that I endorse), but I'm curious about the math.

Let's assume that those Brinkman planters earn $300 per day. Is that a safe assumption? After all, these are coastal planters. Can they earn $300 per day?

Let's also assume that the foreman still has to do some foreman tasks, so plants for about 2/3rd's of the day, or $200. On top of that, he/she makes $25 per head on the other five people in the truck, so $125 for foremanning (which I believe is the same as they pay in the Interior) or $325 per day. Slightly more than the average planter, so not a great premium for being a foreman, but fairly limited extra responsibility in return for having to plant only two-thirds of the day. Not something that would appeal to most people in the industry who are qualified for running a crew, but perhaps appealing to some.

So if the crew is planting $300 x 5 = $1500 and the foreman is planting $200 more, that's $1700 in tree earnings. $125 in commission on $1700 in tree earnings is still slightly over seven percent commission. So yes, this system would save several percent compared to paying a straight commission rate. But is that enough of a difference to make Brinkman competitive in bidding? Or are there other differences.

My opinions on the best way to compensate foreman have changed from time to time over the years, as I've seen different systems work more or less effectively in different areas. Right now, I'm still in favor of commission based foremen in the Interior (or I presume the same in Ontario) where the desire to make sure your crew makes as much as possible (and thus you selfishly also make as much as possible) provides a strong motivation.

But on the coast, I think the day-rate foremen work better. Those individuals, from my moderately limited experience, seem to make roughly between $300 to $450 day-rate (depending on the company and contract and individual) and they're essentially going to be highly competent people who are doing the job because they're good at doing the job, and what they make doesn't affect their attitude of making sure their planters are set up well.

I might have to split this thread off eventually to become a separate "foreman compensation" thread.

[jdtesluk]

I would never want to crew-plant, too much of an individualist. However, I see other advantages. There is an obvious safety aspect, with the elimination of workers being isolated in their own piece. There is a tremendous reduction in the opportunity for stashing or other clearly out-of-bounds practice. You do not have to switch people between pieces nearly as much (if at all). There is also peer-accountability that has the potential too (no guarantee), but potential to influence quality in a positive manner. There is closer contact between rookies and vets, which may facilitate training (assuming they learn good habits). Reduced driving between spots on the block. Reduced cache juggling and inventory calculation (partial counting).

I can see many negatives as well, particularly in production potential for true highballers. It also places more emphasis on social skills, which many of us go planting in order to avoid using...or misusing [ :) ] . In some sense, I am surprised that cattle-planting is not more widespread, and I believe that there is as much habit, tradition, and cultural inertia behind it as there is rational evaluation of the pros and cons. It would be interesting to an in-depth study of it (qualitatively and quantitatively) to determine how is functionally compares to regular solo-plants.

Dear SSHRC............................

[Selkirk]

Take a poll of experienced planters and ask which of the two methods is preferred. The obvious results will emphatically settle the so-called argument.

[CampMeeting]

Oh, and if you have any snow outs make sure you bring a propane stove. The kitchen will be shut down and there is no where to eat in Woss...non-vehicle owners are screwed. Each to his own at that point.

There is one place to eat in Woss. I ordered a steak sandwich and it came on a hotdog bun.

[mwainwright]

still better than working for osprey

[Pandion]

still better than working for osprey

That should be their slogan.

[eoline]

still better than working for osprey

That should be their slogan.

Good one

[dirt rich]

Thanks for the perspectives folks. This has mainly served to justify my hesitation. I think the only way crewplanting could be good for the planter is if the whole crew were good friends and equal planters (production wise). No way am I about to wait around for slower planter for the sake of saving Brinkman money.

[mcD]

its not a line plant, so you don't have to wait around. you just have to be aware of 4-5 other people in your piece. Once you get good at it it isn't that big of a deal. there can also be a lot of situations on the coast where it is simply not feasible to cut everyone there own piece. this isn't an endorsement of Brinkman, just saying you shouldn't be waiting for anybody.

[chopsticks]

There is one place to eat in Woss. I ordered a steak sandwich and it came on a hotdog bun.

This was the place run by the japanese guys? They make great sushi when I was there last August

[eoline]

Have you bought your tent yet ? Make sure you bring extra blankets, it is very cold on the Island right now.

[salad_shooter]

Working north island and beyond with brinkman. Its all true! we even have to trap our own food, and swim to the block as well... You wouldn't like it. Oh and our foremen are actually grizzly bears, who have a taste for human blood... Stay away

[PlantinTaders]

Its too bad they don't have much of a taste for keeping caches stocked with trees...

[Mike]

Updated contact info:


Brinkman Restoration Ltd.
520 Sharpe Street
New Westminster, BC V3M 4R2
Canada
phone 604 521-7771
fax 604 520-1968
brinkman@brinkman.ca
http://www.brinkmanreforestation.ca/

http://www.plantingtheplanet.com/tree-planting-jobs/
http://www.plantingtheplanet.com/jobs/bc-tree-planting/

[mo_bears]

Any reviews from past or current Brinkman cooks? Or observations from planters re: equipment, budget, set-up, pay etc etc

[tiedyechaitea]

I've just been offered a job with Brinkman in Alberta, near Whitecourt. The confirmed contracts are with Blue Ridge Lumber and Alberta Newsprint Company, does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this contract? Adam is the camp supervisor! Is this an offer I should take? I also received an offer with Outland in Ontario, and another half Ontario/half Alberta with HRI, but I don't know I want to plant Ontario again.

[Scooter]

I would definitely recommend the western Canadian work.

[CBaum]

I've just been offered a job with Brinkman in Alberta, near Whitecourt. The confirmed contracts are with Blue Ridge Lumber and Alberta Newsprint Company, does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this contract? Adam is the camp supervisor! Is this an offer I should take? I also received an offer with Outland in Ontario, and another half Ontario/half Alberta with HRI, but I don't know I want to plant Ontario again.

Hi, I'm Adam, the project manager for the Brinkman Alberta camp you mentioned. I'm not sure who you are (internet handles and all that). I believe strongly that the work I have to offer compares favourably to the other options you've listed there, but if you have any specific questions or concerns then I'd be more than happy to address them to the best of my ability. Ideally by email, or I guess you could direct message me through the forum here.

[peroxide]

I've just been offered a job with Brinkman in Alberta, near Whitecourt. The confirmed contracts are with Blue Ridge Lumber and Alberta Newsprint Company, does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this contract? Adam is the camp supervisor! Is this an offer I should take? I also received an offer with Outland in Ontario, and another half Ontario/half Alberta with HRI, but I don't know I want to plant Ontario again.

Working around Whitecourt won't be much different than Ontario, just you'll probably be planting 7s and 8s rather than 12s. Also, definitely take this Brinkman work over anything HRI is offering.

[redxiv7]

Working around Whitecourt won't be much different than Ontario, just you'll probably be planting 7s and 8s rather than 12s. Also, definitely take this Brinkman work over anything HRI is offering.

The couple years I planted in and around Whitecourt was for Blue Ridge and West Fraser but we usually planted for 2100 stems - a target of 9's, 10's and 11's. Is 1500 stems the norm?

[Scooter]

It's probably the Millar Western work. Folklore also does that contract. The blocks range from 800 to 2000 stems. I'd guess that it's usually 800-1200 for roads or burns, usually 7's or sometimes 6's for raw, trenches usually 9's or 10's. But it always varies, so we have to check the specs every single block, every day.

[CreamDolphin]

I've just been offered a job with Brinkman in Alberta, near Whitecourt. The confirmed contracts are with Blue Ridge Lumber and Alberta Newsprint Company, does anyone have any experience/knowledge on this contract? Adam is the camp supervisor! Is this an offer I should take? I also received an offer with Outland in Ontario, and another half Ontario/half Alberta with HRI, but I don't know I want to plant Ontario again.

Did you do it? If so who is this? I joined Adam's camp as a bailout in July and I'm wondering if I met you haha.