Forestry Tech Diploma

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steel8909
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Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

Hello all,

I'm considering taking a forest tech program in BC (haven't picked which one yet, any recommendations?). Wondering if anyone here has done the same and can share their experiences with it. Also wondering what kind of first job you can qualify for with prior silviculture experience.

I've also been checking out forestry job boards and I noticed that many employers ask for RPF's or RFT's for the same position as if the terms are interchangeable. Considering this, how much more valuable is a 4 yr degree over 2 yr diploma? I'd rather just get the 2 yr diploma because I already wasted fours years on a History degree :cry:
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by theBushman »

I went to Confederation College in Thunder Bay, ON. I never finished my diploma, and I certainly was never interested in RFT.

I worked a lot of timber cruising and a few different types of regen surveys. It was the regen work that got me in with the silv company I've been working for recently.

The skills that people actually use from my program are mostly GIS and aerial survey. I can't think of more than one other student that works on the silv side of things, I do know another fellow I worked with that does a lot of forest engineering in the west.

For a first job or coop, you'd likely be a compassman or tally on a timber cruise party, or maybe working as a checker for the client. Cruise parties may be looking for harvest timber, or mapping, or beetle hunting.

It is also likely that a coop position would be a lot of short terms on several projects over the summer term.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

theBushman wrote:I went to Confederation College in Thunder Bay, ON. I never finished my diploma, and I certainly was never interested in RFT.

I worked a lot of timber cruising and a few different types of regen surveys. It was the regen work that got me in with the silv company I've been working for recently.

The skills that people actually use from my program are mostly GIS and aerial survey. I can't think of more than one other student that works on the silv side of things, I do know another fellow I worked with that does a lot of forest engineering in the west.

For a first job or coop, you'd likely be a compassman or tally on a timber cruise party, or maybe working as a checker for the client. Cruise parties may be looking for harvest timber, or mapping, or beetle hunting.

It is also likely that a coop position would be a lot of short terms on several projects over the summer term.
I'm assuming you just completed the first year of your diploma? Did that help you land those cruising and survey jobs? I see a lot of job postings ask for candidates to have completed their 2 yr diploma or atleast completed 1 yr.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by theBushman »

I went for most of second year, never bothered taking general math, and needed photo interpretation as a a pre-req.

Being a student directly got me into the jobs I had, the employers were using government funding to subsidize their payroll. And since enrollment, every employer I've had has only been interested in experience.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Saffa »

I have a forest tech diploma from VIU, and am finishing up a degree through the faculty of forestry at UBC.
I highly recommend the tech diploma, there's a ton of work out there if you're willing to travel. Tech's are way more in demand than RPF's.
I learnt a hell of a lot more practical, applicable skills through my tech diploma than my degree. There is a lot of summer term work available
for all forestry students, but the pay is pretty low ~$3200/month avg. I keep getting tempted back into the planting world, so I can't speak to
any actual first hand experience working as a tech or a forester, in fact I've decided to go into farming after I finish my degree, and will only
be doing a little forestry survey work during the winters.

In short, and I think the tech is the best way to go.
It's only an extra year if you start with the tech and then go on to do a degree - highly worth it!

Goodluck
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by chronic »

they both offer shit wages. if rpf, most likely you will sit in an office signing more paperwork than being in the field. tech you will travel lots, and lot of time working under an rpf who was a city kid who decided he wanted to be a forester. sorry, been there, done that. went to school for forestry, could get my RPF if I wanted to. i am a career tree planter instead as I am fortunate to be good and work for good companies. i work 7 months a year doing strictly production based forestry and make more than anybody i went to school with. plus i get more time off. no complaints. retirement still looking like 50 as long as the body holds together and industry doesn't go to complete shit.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

chronic wrote:they both offer shit wages. if rpf, most likely you will sit in an office signing more paperwork than being in the field. tech you will travel lots, and lot of time working under an rpf who was a city kid who decided he wanted to be a forester. sorry, been there, done that. went to school for forestry, could get my RPF if I wanted to. i am a career tree planter instead as I am fortunate to be good and work for good companies. i work 7 months a year doing strictly production based forestry and make more than anybody i went to school with. plus i get more time off. no complaints. retirement still looking like 50 as long as the body holds together and industry doesn't go to complete shit.
Isn't it already shit? What's your average tree price if you don't mind me asking.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

Saffa wrote:I have a forest tech diploma from VIU, and am finishing up a degree through the faculty of forestry at UBC.
I highly recommend the tech diploma, there's a ton of work out there if you're willing to travel. Tech's are way more in demand than RPF's.
I learnt a hell of a lot more practical, applicable skills through my tech diploma than my degree. There is a lot of summer term work available
for all forestry students, but the pay is pretty low ~$3200/month avg. I keep getting tempted back into the planting world, so I can't speak to
any actual first hand experience working as a tech or a forester, in fact I've decided to go into farming after I finish my degree, and will only
be doing a little forestry survey work during the winters.

In short, and I think the tech is the best way to go.
It's only an extra year if you start with the tech and then go on to do a degree - highly worth it!

Goodluck
Do you recall what kind of summer jobs were available? I'd like to do that but it will sting a bit knowing I would have made more money dog any sort of silviculture work!
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Scooter »

Isn't it already shit? What's your average tree price if you don't mind me asking.
Tree price is not relevant unless you can correlate with the potential for production. I planted a block last year where the tree price was 80 cents. EIGHTY CENTS!!! That's with no stakes, no fert, just planting a few trees. And I would say it was one of the worst money-days of my career.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by salbrecher »

It depends on what you want to do whether you should do tech or University and how quickly you want to get there. RFT is a quicker route but may limit your career possibilities. Although many positions can be done by both RFT's and RPF's, RPF's on average earn more and often take on more responsibility. A tech diploma will give you better hard operational skills at the ground level and a degree arguably gives one a better perspective on overall forest management, hence a greater number of RPF's in higher level positions. This is not always the case however. See the Association of BC Forest Professionals member survey from 2011 in the link below on salary and job status by education, designation, education, gender etc. My opinion is salaries have gone up since then, coming out of the recession as licensees struggle to find qualified individuals.
http://www.abcfp.ca/publications_forms/ ... _FINAL.pdf

I planted for seven years and then went back to UBC and did a forestry degree. I worked as a summer student in both silviculture and development for three years which involved everything from planting supervision, surveys, stand assessments, herbicide layout, to assisting in cruising, and block layout from the southern interior to Haida Gwaii. Summer student jobs currently pay around $3400/month down south up to $4300 up north. My background in silviculture was and still is a huge asset and allowed me to graduate with immediate full time employment as a silviculture supervisor while I was registered as a Forester in Training. That said, nearly everyone I graduated with who wanted work found it. My background in planting and herbicide throughout BC was a huge asset in that I could relate the operational decisions I make to the impacts they would have to silviculture workers, costs, etc. After three years and becoming an RPF I became the silvi forester for a licensee managing my own area, essentially reaching my 5-10 year career goal in three years (which I attribute partially to my silviculture background). I spend roughly 60% of my time in the field (more in summer and almost none in winter) and plan to keep it that way. Some people like the office better and strive to manage their program that way, it's just a different way of managing.

As a summer student, despite the fact that the monthly salary is lower than planting you are working consistently from late April to early Sept, something that is very challenging these days in silviculture, and you don't have camp costs.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Saffa »

Here's a link to website that offers professional forestry jobs: http://www.canadian-forests.com/job.html

The jobs available are usually called "summer student co-op jobs" and they are mostly for the big companies, Canfor, West Fraser, WFF, Interfor ect.
They could stick you in silviculture where you do survey work, check on planters, and site plans or they could put you in operations or planning which would deal more with layout (road and block) and cruising. Check out a few of the tech programs websites for more info, here's a link to my old school: https://www2.viu.ca/forestry/Careers/index.asp
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

salbrecher wrote:It depends on what you want to do whether you should do tech or University and how quickly you want to get there. RFT is a quicker route but may limit your career possibilities. Although many positions can be done by both RFT's and RPF's, RPF's on average earn more and often take on more responsibility. A tech diploma will give you better hard operational skills at the ground level and a degree arguably gives one a better perspective on overall forest management, hence a greater number of RPF's in higher level positions. This is not always the case however. See the Association of BC Forest Professionals member survey from 2011 in the link below on salary and job status by education, designation, education, gender etc. My opinion is salaries have gone up since then, coming out of the recession as licensees struggle to find qualified individuals.
http://www.abcfp.ca/publications_forms/ ... _FINAL.pdf

I planted for seven years and then went back to UBC and did a forestry degree. I worked as a summer student in both silviculture and development for three years which involved everything from planting supervision, surveys, stand assessments, herbicide layout, to assisting in cruising, and block layout from the southern interior to Haida Gwaii. Summer student jobs currently pay around $3400/month down south up to $4300 up north. My background in silviculture was and still is a huge asset and allowed me to graduate with immediate full time employment as a silviculture supervisor while I was registered as a Forester in Training. That said, nearly everyone I graduated with who wanted work found it. My background in planting and herbicide throughout BC was a huge asset in that I could relate the operational decisions I make to the impacts they would have to silviculture workers, costs, etc. After three years and becoming an RPF I became the silvi forester for a licensee managing my own area, essentially reaching my 5-10 year career goal in three years (which I attribute partially to my silviculture background). I spend roughly 60% of my time in the field (more in summer and almost none in winter) and plan to keep it that way. Some people like the office better and strive to manage their program that way, it's just a different way of managing.

As a summer student, despite the fact that the monthly salary is lower than planting you are working consistently from late April to early Sept, something that is very challenging these days in silviculture, and you don't have camp costs.
Great response! Your pathway into the profession is sorta how I'm imagining mine.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

Saffa wrote:Here's a link to website that offers professional forestry jobs: http://www.canadian-forests.com/job.html

The jobs available are usually called "summer student co-op jobs" and they are mostly for the big companies, Canfor, West Fraser, WFF, Interfor ect.
They could stick you in silviculture where you do survey work, check on planters, and site plans or they could put you in operations or planning which would deal more with layout (road and block) and cruising. Check out a few of the tech programs websites for more info, here's a link to my old school: https://www2.viu.ca/forestry/Careers/index.asp
Thanks for the links! I'm book marking that job board.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by RPF »

I just wanted to echo Salbrecher's comments. It depends on what you eventually want to do.

My dad was a logger and I knew at an early age that I wanted a career in the industry. I was setting chokers and fighting forest fires during the summers while I was in highschool, then decided to go straight to UBC to earn a degree in Forestry. I wanted to get involved in the forest engineering and silviculture side of the business so my employer at the time suggested that I go back to school and get a degree. So off to UBC I went. Best decision I ever made with no regrets.

During the summer breaks while at UBC, I was employed as a tree planter for two seasons, and spent another couple engineering. After graduation, I was fortunate enough to work for a contractor who was involved in everything from engineering to various silviculture activities and working all over BC (both interior and on the coast). I worked for him for 4 years and gained very valuable experience which has help me develop to where I am today.

I've been able to manage my time so that I spend as much time outside where things are happening. I don't understand foresters who would rather be inside moving paper all day. But everybody has different views on how they wish to manage their time.

So to answer the original question RPF vs RFT, in my biased opinion I would choose the RPF route. I think more opportunities are available to an RPF. And remember, just because you are an RPF, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are doomed to a career pushing paper. As I mentioned, and as Salbrecher mentioned above, it's all about how you want to manage your time.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Rage »

It all depends on what you want to do.
Here is a link which describes the difference between RFTs and RPFs
http://www.abcfp.ca/regulating_the_prof ... e_2010.pdf
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

RPF wrote:I just wanted to echo Salbrecher's comments. It depends on what you eventually want to do.

My dad was a logger and I knew at an early age that I wanted a career in the industry. I was setting chokers and fighting forest fires during the summers while I was in highschool, then decided to go straight to UBC to earn a degree in Forestry. I wanted to get involved in the forest engineering and silviculture side of the business so my employer at the time suggested that I go back to school and get a degree. So off to UBC I went. Best decision I ever made with no regrets.

During the summer breaks while at UBC, I was employed as a tree planter for two seasons, and spent another couple engineering. After graduation, I was fortunate enough to work for a contractor who was involved in everything from engineering to various silviculture activities and working all over BC (both interior and on the coast). I worked for him for 4 years and gained very valuable experience which has help me develop to where I am today.

I've been able to manage my time so that I spend as much time outside where things are happening. I don't understand foresters who would rather be inside moving paper all day. But everybody has different views on how they wish to manage their time.

So to answer the original question RPF vs RFT, in my biased opinion I would choose the RPF route. I think more opportunities are available to an RPF. And remember, just because you are an RPF, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are doomed to a career pushing paper. As I mentioned, and as Salbrecher mentioned above, it's all about how you want to manage your time.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
Nice to see an RPF in here! Did you learn a lot of on the job field skills at UBC or were was it your prior experience that got you that engineering job? Definitely going to consider RPF a long term goal. And what's your opinion on the long term outlook of the industry in Western Canada?

Also do you do any hiring? If you do which universities or college do you think better prepare their students for work?
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by ggrant »

A member of our family recently completed a diploma at CNC in Prince George followed by bridging over to a degree in forestry at UNBC. All graduates of both programs had good job offers. There's never been a better time to study forestry, diploma or degree. In BC most employers look for the credential, not just experience, because we have right to practice legislation which requires forest professionals (RPF or RFT depending on the nature of the work) carry out most types of forest work. A grad prepared to work cruising can expect to make $60K+ to start, albeit working long hours. There's ample opportunity to transition to office or mixed work when 100% bush work gets old. The degree opens more doors than the diploma.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Nate »

How long does it take an RPF to work into the 150k-200k range? Or that doesn't happen unless you move from being an RPF to being a manager within the company?
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Mike »

Are there any pure-office RPF's in Victoria, or would they all be remote? I'm trying to find a career in Victoria and it's proving a bit of a PITA at the moment.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by salbrecher »

Nate wrote:How long does it take an RPF to work into the 150k-200k range? Or that doesn't happen unless you move from being an RPF to being a manager within the company?
As the ABCFP salary survey shows, that I linked to in an above post, 8% of RPF's earn above 100K and they are in the 10-25 years experience range. Being a manager is not exclusive of being an RPF and many are managers because they are RPF's. (http://www.abcfp.ca/publications_forms/ ... _FINAL.pdf)
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by salbrecher »

Mike wrote:Are there any pure-office RPF's in Victoria, or would they all be remote? I'm trying to find a career in Victoria and it's proving a bit of a PITA at the moment.
My guess would be that there is the largest concentration of office based RPF's in all of BC working for the federal and provincial government out of Victoria.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by Rage »

Mike wrote:Are there any pure-office RPF's in Victoria, or would they all be remote? I'm trying to find a career in Victoria and it's proving a bit of a PITA at the moment.
There are not too many forestry companies based out of Victoria anymore. Government jobs may require you to have seniority or extensive experience.
A degree in urban forestry, combined with an arborist ticket can lead you to a well career as well.
I have also seen people do well with a forest tech diploma combined with a GIS tech.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by RPF »

steel8909 wrote: Nice to see an RPF in here! Did you learn a lot of on the job field skills at UBC or were was it your prior experience that got you that engineering job? Definitely going to consider RPF a long term goal. And what's your opinion on the long term outlook of the industry in Western Canada?

Also do you do any hiring? If you do which universities or college do you think better prepare their students for work?
Things have changed a lot since I studied at UBC. It's my alma mater and I don't really want to slam them too much, but nowadays when I hire summer students from UBC the first question I ask is what skill sets do they have. To my dismay, I've learned that unless the student has some work experience, many of the first and even second year students don't know how to use a compass or read a map. These two fundamental skills were taught to us in our second class during first year when I was a student (many years ago), but apparently not anymore.

We are finding that students coming out of UNB (University of New Brunswick), and the tech colleges in BC (Vancouver Island University, UNBC, & BCIT) have a higher level of "entry level" skills sets that we require for our summer programs (surveys, etc). However, having said that, some of the fundamental skills can be learned on the job if the employer is willing to put in the time and effort required to do so.

As for myself, I gained the fundamental skills at UBC, but most of my learning since then has been on the job training and observation. I'm still learning something new everyday. I think that's what university teaches you - how to learn and how to understand & relate things to what you are observing.

The long term prospects for RPF's in BC, in my opinion, looks promising. In fact, unless more students take up Forestry as a career, I can see a shortage of experienced foresters within the next decade or so, as more of us "old timers" consider retirement.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by theBushman »

Makes me recall the second week of first semester. An exercise in compass and chain through a tight swath of Balsam Fir lead to a large number of students dropping out.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

RPF wrote:
steel8909 wrote: Nice to see an RPF in here! Did you learn a lot of on the job field skills at UBC or were was it your prior experience that got you that engineering job? Definitely going to consider RPF a long term goal. And what's your opinion on the long term outlook of the industry in Western Canada?

Also do you do any hiring? If you do which universities or college do you think better prepare their students for work?
Things have changed a lot since I studied at UBC. It's my alma mater and I don't really want to slam them too much, but nowadays when I hire summer students from UBC the first question I ask is what skill sets do they have. To my dismay, I've learned that unless the student has some work experience, many of the first and even second year students don't know how to use a compass or read a map. These two fundamental skills were taught to us in our second class during first year when I was a student (many years ago), but apparently not anymore.

We are finding that students coming out of UNB (University of New Brunswick), and the tech colleges in BC (Vancouver Island University, UNBC, & BCIT) have a higher level of "entry level" skills sets that we require for our summer programs (surveys, etc). However, having said that, some of the fundamental skills can be learned on the job if the employer is willing to put in the time and effort required to do so.

As for myself, I gained the fundamental skills at UBC, but most of my learning since then has been on the job training and observation. I'm still learning something new everyday. I think that's what university teaches you - how to learn and how to understand & relate things to what you are observing.

The long term prospects for RPF's in BC, in my opinion, looks promising. In fact, unless more students take up Forestry as a career, I can see a shortage of experienced foresters within the next decade or so, as more of us "old timers" consider retirement.
Again thanks for all the great info! One last question, what kind of work can a recent grad, either college or uni, can expect to do during the winter?
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by theBushman »

There's winter work, in the field and the office. Harvesting is ongoing, burn programs, beetle projects, GIS, photo interpretation, plan writing, contract prep.
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Re: Forestry Tech Diploma

Post by steel8909 »

theBushman wrote:There's winter work, in the field and the office. Harvesting is ongoing, burn programs, beetle projects, GIS, photo interpretation, plan writing, contract prep.
Sounds good to me.
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