How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

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How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

We've been having a discussion about the number of planting camps there are in western Canada, specifically trying to figure out approximately how many there are in BC & Alberta. My best guesses are listed here to start the discussion, although a lot of these are probably incorrect, perhaps significantly so. Companies listed in green are ones that have been talked about by posters further down in this thread, or ones where I know the number of camps definitively, rather than just being my own guess.
Apex - 1
Artisan - 1
Blue Collar - 4
Brinkman - 9
Celtic - 3
Coast Range - 2
Corsair - 1
Dynamic - 6
Fieldstone - 1
Folklore - 6
Greenpeaks Forest Management - 1
Greenpeaks Holdings - 1
Hybrid 17 - 1
Legacy - 1
Little Smokey - 2
NATA - 1
Nature's Treasures - 1
NGR - 4
Northern - 1
Outland - 6
Rhino - 2
Seneca - 3
Shakti - 1
Spectrum - 3
Summit - 5
Torrent - 1
Wildwoods - 1
Windfirm - 2
Zanzibar - 1

Total = 72 ??

In this list, I'm talking about the maximum number of camps that a company will have in a season, based mostly on starting numbers. So if two camps combine half-way through the season, let's call them two camps, because that's what they started out as. If a single camp fragments temporarily and a crew or couple crews go off to do a smaller job, I'm still counting them as a single camp. But I guess if a big camp does a job for the first three weeks and then splits into two distinct camps for the rest of the season, that could be counted as a pair.

I'm not counting camps or crews that work purely out of motels. This is restricted to bush camps. Let's not restrict it only to tent camps. If there's a bush camp set up by a planting contractor in a semi-permanent location/facility, and the planting contractor has ATCO trailers or something similar for the planters, I'll count it. But if it's a stand-alone permanent logging camp operated by a third party, then I wouldn't count it, because that's more similar to working in motels other than having your meals prepared for you.

There are a couple of Alberta companies on the list. I'm lumping them in with BC, since they sometimes work in BC, and since some of the BC companies work in Alberta. So this is a two-province list. However, for each company, I'm only counting the camps that are active in either BC or Alberta. So for example, with companies like Brinkman or Outland, I'm not counting any of their camps in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, or the Maritimes.

If I get better guesses or corrections from other planters, I'll try to keep updating this post (at the top of the thread) to reflect revised estimates. We'll assume that this is a snapshot of the 2015 year, ie. I'm not going to go chasing corrections to the list for future years. It's mostly just wondering about the rough number for curiosity. I know that the WSCA tried to do a study and estimated that there are about 6600 planters in BC each year, and there have been studies of the number of companies that plant trees, but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone ever trying to consider the number of bush camps.

Obviously, the number of planters will vary significantly. My own camp usually has about 48 planters, but some of the other standalone camps I'm familiar with have small sizes of as few as 18-24 planters. And I've heard rumors of big camps with as many as as 70-100 planters in them at other companies. So a company with three large camps might have more planters than another company with six smaller camps. It would be really hard to study the sizes, so I'm not even going to try to understand that measurement.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Casper »

If you only count camps that work in bushcamps, Apex has 1.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Mike »

Legacy Reforestation: 1
Little Smokey Forest Services: 2
All of my company reviews and experience (The Planting Company, Windfirm, ELF, Folklore, Dynamic, Timberline, Eric Boyd, Wagner, Little Smokey, Leader, plus my lists for summer work and coastal) can be found at the start of the Folklore review due to URL and character limits.

Folklore, 2011: http://tinyurl.com/anl6mkd
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Chocolatej »

Hybrid-17 has bush-camp for most of the season.
Little Trees has had camps in the past.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by dreamofcream »

If we count from Manitoba West as Western planting, then these I’m sure of.
Zanzibar – 1
NGR – 4
Corsair – 1 (at least)
Outland – 6
Northern – 1
Smoky Lake - 1

And these I’m speculating
A & G – they used to have a camp, not sure if they still do
Hybrid 17 - 1
Nature’s Treasures – 1
Roots – they might be done.
Torrent – 1 (at least for a good portion of the year)
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Evergreen »

There are two different companies called Greenpeaks. One is Greenpeaks Holdings and the other is Greenpeaks Forest Management. They operate one camp each in southern B.C.

How about the Lasqueti Daugters?
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

Isn't the LD just the name of the boat? Or is there a company with that name also? I thought the Lasqueti Daughters was owned by Greg at Impact nowadays.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Evergreen »

Scooter wrote:Isn't the LD just the name of the boat? Or is there a company with that name also? I thought the Lasqueti Daughters was owned by Greg at Impact nowadays.
Yes the LD is the name of the boat and it is owned by Greg of Impact. I guess it's your call as to whether you consider it a camp. There are a few other working boats/camps on the coast as well. Brinkman, Rainforest and the new Integrity Industrial are all camping on boats or in the case of Integrity, perhaps on shore.

It's a bit confusing having two planting companies calling themselves Integrity something or other. There's the one that works in mid to northern B.C. Integrity Contracting and this new one on the coast.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by chronic »

Rainforest is only on boats for short contracts/periods of time, and not much at that. Do not do camps.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

Yeah, the new one on the coast is Jake Solway. Very small scale. I know several of his planters. They're doing a combination of a few different things, some boat and some motel.

I think I'm going to stick to a definition of "tent" camp, ie. people needing tents, and camping on terra firma. So I'm basically more curious about the number of bush camps in May/June/July, and I'll ignore coastal stuff that is in the grey area halfway between a tent camp and a motel job.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

I was just talking to an Apex planter who said that they have at least two camps, so I've updated that.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Mike »

Artisan - 1
Dynamic - 6
Shakti - 1
Windfirm - 2


I'm reasonably certain those are all correct. Dynamic sometimes runs fewer/merges small camps, so 4-6 separate locations with planters working in a season. Windfirm had one camp when I was there ages ago, but I think they usually do two from what I heard running into them on the days off.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Casper »

Scooter wrote:I was just talking to an Apex planter who said that they have at least two camps, so I've updated that.
Apex has only one camp that will be a bushcamp this season. PG Canfor and then they will move to Conifex Mackenzie.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

Thanks. Ok, updated again.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Greg »

I have been following this thread and want so much more from it. Obviously, your chart implicates how many 'bush' camps could be in the province at one given point. I feel like the number of people in each camp is a very significant stat to go beside these numbers. A camp of 100 people would require a significant difference in setup and standard of living compared to a camp of 24. You could also add a stat of how much management is in a camp of that size. Also, why not add a column of how many total camps a company has, including how many motel and self-cooking shows are out there? I think this chart is a great start to open up some clarity of what options are out there for planters in our industry. You could even include a column for how many men and women are in camp and in management roles, perhaps it will show which employers appear to be misogynistic.

I have seen camps of 100 out there with 1 supervisor, 2 cooks, and 5-10 foreman. At the same time, I have seen camps of 50 people with 1 supervisor, 2 cooks and 5-10 foreman. With the same amount of management servicing half the amount of people, the standard of living and work conditions are typically much more comfortable, and normally it leads to much less downtime in the field. As soon as a camp is 'too big' and leadership can't give each and every planter the attention they deserve and require, I find that the quality of work and life atmosphere diminishes for both management and planters.

The name of the thread is 'how many PLANTING CAMPS are there in Western Canada'. You are choosing to ignore a significant amount of people that are in camps that have to do their own shopping, cooking and typically deal with room mates. Ill take my personal space in my cozy tent or trailer with three prepared meals a day over most motel and residence shows. Would love to see a "total camps" column added.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

This is actually leading to a company profile format that has the same sort of info that you mention, plus more. It's an eventual goal. The number of camps is a good start, but as you've said, there's so much more that can be talked about. I've been slowly trying to figure out a good overall format for this before I tackle something like that.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Aeryk »

I love this idea Scooter! keep stirring that idea soup.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by sghyselincks »

Wildwoods still has one camp going this season, although reduced to 24 planters from the usual 36.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Nasitra »

I think it's fair to say we can scratch the LD's off the list...
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Mike »

Fieldstone has at least one camp.
All of my company reviews and experience (The Planting Company, Windfirm, ELF, Folklore, Dynamic, Timberline, Eric Boyd, Wagner, Little Smokey, Leader, plus my lists for summer work and coastal) can be found at the start of the Folklore review due to URL and character limits.

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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by The Rev »

sghyselincks wrote:Wildwoods still has one camp going this season, although reduced to 24 planters from the usual 36.

What happened for 2015? ... assuming less trees. But curious if there was a story.

Looked at their website a couple of times this winter and didn't see any update for this Spring

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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

I think Shakti is doing a fair amount of the Tolko work up there. Tolko is looking to diversify?
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by Scooter »

This note came out of today's Rumour Mill RoundUp newsletter from the WFCA:
To be precise there are an estimated 4,731 tree planters in the field this week in BC — this is according to forestry work attestations received by our government. Close to 3,200 are working from 68 camps with another 1,300 located in 93 hotels.
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Re: How Many Planting Camps are there in Western Canada?

Post by jdtesluk »

Yeah, this is a bit off. The numbers are based on attestations (reports to Ministry of operation start ups). A few hundred worth in commuter operations are not included, but many hundred more have wrapped up in the south or on the coast. Alberta is not included here. But if we want to talk Western Canada, and combine Alberta and BC, I think we would be a bit more than that by a few hundred. BC will pare down to about 3500-3700, and Alberta will ramp up to (est) over 1600. My guess would be 5300-5600 across BC and Alberta with a gradual shift of about a dozen large camps from west to east between now and end of June.
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