M-tronic (Auto Tune) modified saws

[Tnalp]

I had a 441 Stihl M-tronic modified and it is awesome. Just purchased a 661 for the upcoming Beetle season, it of course is on it's way to Simon for an attitude adjustment!
Anyone else out there that has run a 661?

[mwainwright]

i still cant bring myself to trust the auto-tune. you're the only person i've heard good reviews from so far...

[Tnalp]

It's a personal thing.
I tried a friend 's of mine Stihl, 3 years ago doing seismic. i was quite impressed by how it would start at minus 35 with only a few pulls, and without choke! One of the big advantages i found was how cleanly they burn. Way less fumes to irritate my poor asthmatic lungs!!

The 661's are outperforming the 660's hand's down!

A "few" more years and fuel injection will commonplace...

[mwainwright]

well thats good to hear, as in a a few years im sure there will be very little choice in the matter. i have been wondering how much of the naysaying i hear is just due to diehard chainsaw prejudice, which is definitely a personal thing.

[Tnalp]

The modded 661 has been performing superbly in the big wood up here in AB!

[newforest]

I switched shops where I live recently, from the closest shop 20 minutes away, to one 80 minutes away, after many recommendations. The new one proved to be the biggest Husqy dealer in Michigan.

I asked them how Auto Tune was being accepted, two years in. They said they had sold about 800 such saws so far, and only one had ever come back in for maintenance. I would expect a majority of those sales went to near-daily sawyers, as the weekend warrior firewood guys are usually content with cheaper saws.

I look forward to running one, but my current saws have a lot of life in them yet.


I was in another shop in the Upper Peninsula a while back now, when their daily delivery arrived, just a single item that day - the Update Kit for repairing an Auto Tune saw. It was just a CD, and a cable with a USB port. I thought that would be pretty nice, to diagnose your saw with your laptop.

But in the long run, I have heard that this isn't quite a reality yet, as it is with private individuals and scanners for vehicles. There are big fines to a dealer that lets anyone get one of those cables or the contents of that CD.

In fact this is a big issue with equipment run by chips, outside of personal vehicles. Farmers, for example, are very unhappy with John Deere refusing to reveal lock-out codes their technicians use to fix farm equipment. That way, John Deere gets more sales of their parts and their technicians' service hours and the DIY farmer is out of luck.

I don't keep up with the details, but apparently Canada is leading the way on this issue of allowing the owners of a piece of equipment full access to the contents of the property they own, which all has something to do with intellectual property and international treaties. But it is a more complicated issue than it appears on the surface; emissions law is one such complication.

Eventually though, I think we will be able to Hot Rod a saw via software, just as vehicle owners do these days.

[newforest]

So I finally bought my first Auto-Tune chainsaw this summer. I like it a lot. It has a quirk to starting - 'they' tell me it is best to flip the choke on and back off first, and then the chip will also need about 5 seconds to set everything. No big deal.

What really surprised me was when I picked up my older saw immediately after running the new one - older saw much louder. A chainsaw will never be quiet but any reduction in dB is a good thing in my book.

I think I'm going to buy another one in a few days. I run Husqy chainsaws but am switching to Stihl on the brush-saws finally. My one complaint on my new 550XP is they re-designed the chain tensioner. The pin now is part of the clutch cover instead of vice versa; don't see any need to change that and it is quite a bit more annoying to dial in chain tightness the way you wish. Seems like a design change done just to keep the designers busy doing something to show the boss.

I know some people that still won't touch such a chainsaw. But on the pro grade saws, no one has a choice any longer. I think they are working out good for everyone. I won't touch a consumer grade saw. I do still hope though that someone bootlegs that diagnostic software....

[Scooter]

I've been using a Stihl 290 for about 6-8 hours per day for the past 14 or 15 days straight. I like it for the work I'm doing (cutting in the Maritimes right now, about 50% birch/maple and 50% spruce/fir), and most of the trees that I'm falling are no more than 10" DBH, with maybe one in fifty being over 15" dbh. It's not professional work, I'm just doing road building and line clearing on my own woodlots.

I feel like this is more of a "homeowner" saw than a professional forestry saw. I don't find it to be heavy at all, but that's also a reflection of the wood that I'm cutting.

I only have a single saw right now on the east coast, so I'm looking at picking up a second saw. I'm assuming that the second saw will become my main saw, rather than just being used as a backup. For this reason, I'm leaning towards a slightly larger CC. But as you can see based on what I'm cutting, I don't need a ton of power.

My initial thought was an M-tronic 362 or 441. The 362 is just slightly larger than my 290 in terms of engine size, and only weighs a fraction more, but has about 25% more power. Moving up to the 441 would give me another 11 CC engine size and more notably yet another 25% increase in power over the 362, for only another pound and a half of weight. Price is irrelevant to me.

I would normally gravitate towards larger models for most types of equipment, because I don't want to be caught with something that can't get the job done. But considering the intended use, my gut feeling is that a 362 would be quite adequate.

Thoughts? I'm pleased to see that the three people that I'd ask about this are the three who have been talking in this thread.

[Tnalp]

Follow your gut... sharp chain w 362 will be more than plenty!

[newforest]

I don't know the Stihl chainsaw line at all. But basically chainsaws come in size classes such as 50cc, 60cc, 70cc, and jump to 90cc for falling the really really big stuff.

For dropping 10" stuff all day long, a 50cc saw would be fine, and would weigh less than a 60cc. A 70cc in that size wood would be a bit of overkill, but it would be real nice in the mornings. Weight is a critical feature of a saw, and thus power:weight ratio is a key statistic. Generally the "pro" model saws have the best ratios I believe. Weight becomes a key safety feature late in the day as you get more tired. Carrying around extra weight when it is not needed (big saw in small wood) just creates extra fatigue and extra risk. Some of that also depends on cutting style - if you saw for a while, then set the saw down toload firewood for a while, drag brush, etc., that is a bit different than just straight dropping stems all the way through the day.

I cut fair amount of small Spruce and Fir on the post-harvest clean-up cutting I do a lot, and in Canopy Gap cleaning specs too. I would hate to have a bigger saw than a 50cc class to do all the limbing work you need to do to get at the stem of the tree, safely. Lifting anything bigger would get to be a chore, after lunch, and I know I would take short-cuts with a bigger saw in hand.

I have generally heard a good way to go is a combo of a 50cc saw for daily use and a 70cc for when a bigger task presents itself, rather than a single 60cc saw. Nevertheless I selected a 60cc class saw (562XP) to go with my all-day every-day 50cc saw, mostly for when an ice storm drops a huge tree in a friend's driveway and said friend knows I own a bunch of saws. Also it was of course a touch cheaper than a 70cc class saw which I would only really need if I took a job on a logging crew. And I can still use the 60cc for a day as a back-up if I need to. And I have an older 50cc class saw finally dialed-in after the Ethanol disaster that is also a back-up / extra person available (346XP).

Pro models also have the most ruggedized components, compared to the "consumer" models. They will last longer and are a far better investment. Some consumer saws fall apart ridiculously quick, (especially with daily use) and are sometimes more expensive to fix than to just replace.

I believe the Stihl 362 is the Pro saw. I can't recall if you can still get it with or without M-Tronic, but I think so. I'm not sure which I would pick. In the Husqy world, their "Pro" saws are all Auto-Tune and have been for some time. I will likely buy another 550XP as my next chainsaw. I am currently running Stihl chain on one, and Stihl 100% synthetic mix oil, and sometimes sporting a Stihl hard-hat also, though I really like my new Husqy "Technical" helmet - vented.

As for M-Tronic, I had interesting news on that system just this morning. I stopped by the Tractor dealer where I unfortunately bought my last brushsaw. I will update that thread soon, that saw is finally dialed in and it is a beast. Anyhow I asked if Stihl will ever release the M-Tronic management software to the public. As far as I know, Husqvarna refuses to do this and will levy heavy fines on any dealer caught letting a non-employee get their hands on said software. (I hope some hackers somewhere have done this however). The dealer had good and bad news on it. He asked Stihl the same question about the software and apparently, my dealer's take was Stihl didn't seem to care if a saw owner got the software - the good news. The bad news? One would have to buy the Stihl proprietary kit to use the software, a little suitcase full of specialty connectors and a 'black box'. I'm sure the kit is very not cheap. Still, it would be somewhat interesting to be able to look at your saw's performance on your own laptop screen, and that software is the only way to perform a "factory reset" on the electronics. Think about how often you have ever used a "hard reset" on an electronic device.

I was at a Husqy dealer once upon a time when they received their similar kit, brand new, the year the Auto-Tune saws first appeared. It was a USB cable and a Compact Disc with the software. I presumed there was a port on the saw somewhere matching the other end of that cable, but now that I have been thinking about it, since this morning, I have never actually found such a port in my 550XP or my 562XP. (Husqy model #s closely match the engine cc size.) So maybe doing Auto-Tune management via the software requires more cabling, etc., than I am thinking. Or maybe the port connection is quite cleverly hidden, dunno.

[mwainwright]

I was saw shopping today for a new spacing saw, and was seriously considering the 441, but in the end I broke down and bought a 372 husky. I'm just too set in my ways.

[newforest]

I bet no one running an Auto Tune saw has ever generated usage stats like the ones below...

I would say that one thing I have never liked on my 550 XP is the clutch cover/brake, which was re-designed from the 300 series XPs of 5+ years ago, though I fail to see why. It has always been a little 'sticky' and temperamental when you remove it and sure enough, it eventually just failed one day, years earlier than it should have, in my opinion. My saw guy, at a very high volume dealer, couldn't even figure out which component failed and we just had to replace the whole cover.

When that brake broke I picked up my basically new 562 XP and went back to cutting - mostly stuff essentially way too small for it. 95% of the work could be done with a brush-saw, but the first site I needed the saw on featured predominantly Hard/Rock/Sugar Maple in the 5"+ class, so I wanted the chainsaw. The second site though, featured largely 3" Balsam Fir - wrong saw completely. Doing post-harvest clean-up in Aspen regen (cutting residual Balsam and Maple to insure the site doesn't convert away from Aspen), there can be a lot of walking involved. And then a lot of idling time on the saw. After some 40-ish hours of use, my 562 wouldn't run. Plug good, filters clean, no discernible problems I could find. I did make the simple mistake of looking at the muffler screen basically at an angle, as you can't look straight down at the mesh. From an angle, it looked clear enough; if I could see it from a purely vertical vantage point it would have been obvious how clogged it was.

I had to go to the shop anyway for the 550's brake, and my guy knew within a minute the 562 had been running too rich and had clogged the screen. To determine why the Auto Tune would do that, we hooked it up to his laptop - very simple on the Husqys, just one cable. Stihl needs 2 cables and their special converter box. Ironically, Stihl doesn't care if their users get a hold of the box and do this themselves, though said box is not cheap. Husqy will not let non-dealers have the software or the cable. I do look forward to just doing this myself some day.

The usage stats on the 562 were fairly amazing - 82% idling time. Ooops. Only 2% at peak RPMs. This is pretty much not how you are supposed to run a chainsaw. I did have 125 starts on 40 hours of use, but to really knock down that idling time I would have had to have pulled the starter some 3x or 4x more times.

[Scooter]

I've been doing a fair amount of cutting on my own woodlot in New Brunswick recently. Today was day 59 of this fall/winter. I was thinking about that issue (idling time) today because I was clearing lines instead of clearing a roadway, and I was cutting a lot of dense thin spruce that was probably averaging about 3-4" dbh, very few trees hitting 6". But they were spaced about two feet apart on average, and averaging about 20-22 feet high (red spruce, Maritimes). So my saw was idling a lot when I'd cut down a swath of trees, then spend 3-4 minutes moving them off to the side of the property line (to burn next fall when the weather conditions are more favorable to lighting a lot of small fires). I was thinking about turning it off and restarting it constantly, but I felt more comfortable letting it idle on the ground for the duration of a tank (usually knowing by gut feeling once I was within about 10 minutes of running out of fuel). I was more concerned with not wanting to keep restarting it every 4-5 minutes and that being hard on the pull cord assembly.

I'm surprised that this saw has held up as well as it has. For 59 days, I've had zero downtime, still using a bar from a few years ago, and aside from breaking one chain, I'm still working with the same three chains that I bought in August (but I like to keep them really sharp, and there's not a whole lot left in the teeth). I do change the air filter and spark plug every 15 days of cutting, just to stay on top of things instead of using them to the end of their useful life. To clarify, I got a package of 10 air filters shipped from China (through Amazon) for $43 tax-in, so tossing out a $4.30 air filter every fifteen days (plus a daily wipe) doesn't bother me. This is a pretty small saw (an old Stihl 290) but I'm surprised at how well it's held up. I usually average 7hrs of run-time per day when I'm cutting. More softwood than hardwood, and where I was clearing roads, the average dbh was a bit larger, with quite a bit of spruce & fir in the 10"-14" range. And quite a bit of smaller birch and maple at the same time.

Obviously, this kind of cutting isn't too punishing on the saw, and we haven't had a lot of sub-zero days so I haven't been cutting a lot of frozen wood. But I'm really surprised that a light saw like that hasn't completely disintegrated already. I had intended to get a larger saw this fall, but never got around to it since this one kept running day after day. I got it about six years ago, and I can't complain about the mileage that I've gotten out of it. It's not an M-tronic.

[Tnalp]

Stihl = Tough

[SwampDonkey]

I am still running the same Stihl 560 brushsaw I bought in 2013, this will be season 6 coming up. I replaced one clutch and two shafts in 5 seasons, no more frequent than Husky saws. We are just cutting stuff too damn big at times. Old, suppressed, understory fir left behind between buncher trails. For the life of me I can't see how a hollow tree will be much good for a log or pulp, but they pay for it so we thin it I guess. No other saw issues besides the bears chewing on the rubber handle or throttle cable a little last year. Keep in mind I do mapping as well for nearly half the season, but I still cut a lot of ground every year. I was also cutting out my lines and trails last fall as well. Some of that was chainsaw cutting blow downs off the lines. For that I have an Efco (Italian job) I got for free from the Forestry Forum pig roast in MI. It is proven technology as far as I'm concerned. For us cutting professionally, we get our money back on any saw purchase, repair and gas used for the work. Nothing to complain about. A little spring bonus after taxes.