Why You Should Wear A Seatbelt

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:30 pm

I'm going to start a thread about a topic that nobody likes to talk about: motor vehicle accidents.

There are a large number of MVA's every year in the planting industry. In any given year, the larger companies each probably average several trucks going into a ditch, and one or two rollovers. It's not surprising, considering how many planting vehicles are on the roads (probably almost a hundred in my company alone) and considering that the vast majority of them are being driven by young males, the highest-risk drivers there are. Add to that the gravel roads, dust, slick mud, ruts, washboards, logging trucks, and crazy oil & gas industry pickups, and you have a recipe for disaster.

So I'm making this thread so people can post reminders about accidents they've seen or been in, which involve planting trucks. There are a lot. Driving is the biggest risk in the industry, by far. Sure, you're pretty likely to get injured by bee stings, sharp sticks, or wear & tear injuries such as tendonitis, but driving is the only planting hazard that has a significant chance of killing you. And you can reduce that risk SIGNIFICANTLY with two simple actions:

1. Tell your driver to slow down if you think he/she is going too fast for conditions.
2. Wear a seatbelt.

Earlier this summer, Christine Benoit-Belisle was killed in a rollover on the Kluskus road outside Vanderhoof. She wasn't wearing a seatbelt. From what I've heard about the accident, chances are that she would have lived if she had been wearing one. So remember to belt in, even if you don't feel like it. If you're in a truck with someone who isn't wearing a belt, tell that person that they're an idiot.

I know some people will be reluctant to post info about crashes within their own companies, because of "bad publicity," but I would suggest that to solve that problem, you should leave the company's name out of the posts. It's not a problem that is specific to any special group of companies - it is an industry-wide problem.

If you are posting photos, you might want to edit the resolution down to 450 pixels wide by 300 pixels high, so most people can see the entire image at once in their browser window, without having to scroll.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:43 pm

Here's an accident that happened in my camp a couple weeks ago. Over the years, my camp has had about nine trucks that had to be written off due to accidents. Until this one, they were all before my time at Folklore (in the early 1990's, while I was working for PRT/Tawa). In one accident, some of the planters were killed. Needless to say, I lecture my drivers constantly about safe driving, and probably partly due to this, we've been pretty lucky during my time at Folklore.

Looking at the photos, this was a very "minor" looking accident (compared to the ones that happened years ago, mostly trucks that flipped).

This accident happened when planters were picking up gear from a block after supper. The regular driver of the vehicle was not driving. The driver overcompensated after turning a corner, and steered into the ditch. He was going very slowly, so I'm not sure how this happened, but a slick road contributed to the problem. As you can see from the first photo of the tracks he left, he didn't go very far. He dented the door, and drove over a rock that destroyed his drive shaft and affected the transmission. The vehicle had to be written off.

This was a minor accident, but it goes to illustrate that it is possible to go off the road even at slower speeds and on flat roads. The main point is the depth of the ditch. He was lucky in this case: many roads have much deeper ditches, or are on the sides of cliffs, so he could have just as easily rolled down a mountainside and killed himself.

The driver was wearing his seatbelt and walked away with no injuries. Property damage: the complete loss of the vehicle, due to the cost of repairs of the transmission.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:20 am

Key Point "The driver was wearing his seatbelt and walked away with no injuries." This really makes a point about how important the belt is for even short trips on the block.

Thanks for this Scooter. One of the biggest steps that the industry can take is to share information like this so we can learn from each other's experience.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:45 pm

Scooter wrote:Here's an accident that happened in my camp a couple weeks ago. Over the years, my camp has had about nine trucks that had to be written off due to accidents. Until this one, they were all before my time at Folklore (in the early 1990's, while I was working for PRT/Tawa). In one accident, some of the planters were killed. Needless to say, I lecture my drivers constantly about safe driving, and probably partly due to this, we've been pretty lucky during my time at Folklore.

Looking at the photos, this was a very "minor" looking accident (compared to the ones that happened years ago, mostly trucks that flipped).

This accident happened when planters were picking up gear from a block after supper. The regular driver of the vehicle was not driving. The driver overcompensated after turning a corner, and steered into the ditch. He was going very slowly, so I'm not sure how this happened, but a slick road contributed to the problem. As you can see from the first photo of the tracks he left, he didn't go very far. He dented the door, and drove over a rock that destroyed his drive shaft and affected the transmission. The vehicle had to be written off.

This was a minor accident, but it goes to illustrate that it is possible to go off the road even at slower speeds and on flat roads. The main point is the depth of the ditch. He was lucky in this case: many roads have much deeper ditches, or are on the sides of cliffs, so he could have just as easily rolled down a mountainside and killed himself.

The driver was wearing his seatbelt and walked away with no injuries. Property damage: the complete loss of the vehicle, due to the cost of repairs of the transmission.

LOL! Thats not a slick road... I think your driver was lying about his speed. I think the moral to this story is to always bring your gear home with you after work!

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:58 pm

Thats not a slick road... I think your driver was lying about his speed.

True, but that's a "day after" photo. But you may perhaps be right on the latter part.

TheHamsterizer · Post by **TheHamsterizer** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:09 pm

Scooter wrote:
Thats not a slick road... I think your driver was lying about his speed.
True, but that's a "day after" photo. But you may perhaps be right on the latter part.

Either way, I must admit that Im always a bit nervous getting into a truck before or after work. Ive seen some pretty bad accidents over the years, and its true that the most common injuries are caused by planting, but the most serious injuries are caused by trucks. There is never a good reason to speed on a logging road, and dont be afraid to tell your driver to slow down. I do it all the time. I feel safer flying to work in a helicopter, to be honest....

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:12 pm

I feel safer flying to work in a helicopter,

True. Although we've also had our share of freak accidents over the years - one of our Folklore supervisors was in a helicopter crash last year, and we had a foreman hit by lightning several years ago. No meteorites yet, but I expect one any year now.

We also had our tenth truck written off this summer, after the accident that I mentioned above. This time, it was a rollover - the first rollover in my camp in many, many years. No injuries, luckily. I'll get the photos online here shortly.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:35 pm

Below are some photos of our first rollover accident under my own supervision since I started planting with Folklore in 1995. It happened on a beautiful sunny morning, on a pretty flat and clean road, with the foreman going about 60 km/h at the time, about twenty minutes after we had a camp safety meeting to talk about our PIR Audit. During the meeting, I had specifically reminded everyone that driving was the number one risk for planters, and that drivers have to drive carefully and people always have to wear seatbelts. This accident was a perfect reminder of why wearing seatbelts is critical, even on short drives with good conditions at lower speeds. I'm pretty sure that the driver actually was going at the stated speed, because my girlfriend and three other passengers were in the truck at the time of the accident. Everyone in the truck was wearing their seatbelt, and nobody received even minor injuries.

The truck sustained $29,500 in damages, and had to be written off totally.

One of the photos below is a photo of the road where the accident took place. It looks unbelievable that a truck going at that speed would roll on this road (although it wasn't this dry when the accident happened, due to rain the previous night). What happened was that the truck was in two-wheel drive and was sliding around a bit, hence the reason that the driver had slowed down to 60 km/h a few minutes before. However, that was probably still too fast for conditions. The tail end slid sideways a bit, and one rear wheel slid into the ditch where it dug in and caught, and the truck just rolled over sideways. If you can see the two little puddles up ahead in this photo, on the right side of the road ruts, that is the exact place where the truck rolled. I've never seen anything like it. Again, remember to always wear your seatbelts!

FatJesus · Post by **FatJesus** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:55 pm

I'd like to add that not wearing a seatbelt endangers not only yourself but everyone else in the vehicle with you. If a truck rolls at any kind of speed and you're not wearing a seatbelt you'll quickly find yourself playing the part of "flailing human sledgehammer"; so you're not just an idiot, you're a dick too.

Are you afraid of wrinkling your work shirt, hero?

Kelley · Post by **Kelley** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:31 pm

I was actually one of the passengers in the truck when it rolled. I must admit that it was pretty scary but I was EXTREMELY thankful that I was wearing a seatbelt. I have always been strongly encouraged by vet planters and management alike to wear a seatbelt and I am now very glad that I listened to them. The driver was in fact only going 60 km/hour and I don't see what he could have done differently given what happened. In my opinion it was due to the extremely slick Alberta mud roads that had been nicely greased up for us the night before with the rainfall, as well as the fact that the back of the truck was fully stocked with boxes of trees (both of which are pretty regular factors).

skibum_ · Post by **skibum_** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:09 pm

Vehicles are my biggest fear treeplanting. Potential MVAs are the one thing that make me question going back every year. I have been involved in a couple near misses and it's pretty much made me untrusting of any other drivers. I find treeplanting can attract some reckless people who think they are invinsible and that's the worst kind of person to have behind the wheel. Add in that treeplanting's essence is rushing and being fast. I think companies are doing a good job in becoming safety concious and hopefully we see some more adoption by workers in the silviculture industry of the attitude that slow and steady stays alive.

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:35 pm

skibum_ wrote:Vehicles are my biggest fear treeplanting. Potential MVAs are the one thing that make me question going back every year. I have been involved in a couple near misses and it's pretty much made me untrusting of any other drivers. I find treeplanting can attract some reckless people who think they are invinsible and that's the worst kind of person to have behind the wheel. Add in that treeplanting's essence is rushing and being fast. I think companies are doing a good job in becoming safety concious and hopefully we see some more adoption by workers in the silviculture industry of the attitude that slow and steady stays alive.

I agree with what you said regarding reckless "invincible" young drivers and trusting other drivers. Unless I've witnessed the driver being trained and seen the driver's habits, I'll worry about many things, from sleepy to careless, to just dangerous drivers.

The only accident I have been involved while I was working in the industry happened in an urban setting, in Edmonton, after we had completed the season last year. We were bringing some company vehicles back east (most back to Thunder Bay, I'd bring a van back to Québec...saving quite a load of money, being paid to get back home) and we'd drive as much as possible with two drivers in each van.

I'm paired up with a checker (I noticed him driving way too fast in the bush a few days earlier and I mentionned that to my boss). As we get out of the yard, he's already heavy on the pedal and I tried to subtly mention how many police cars were patrolling the vicinity.

An hour later, while we were on the Transcanada highway, still within Edmonton, the driver yells a fearful "oh shit". I look up from the paper I'm reading and I see the back of a dodge truck stopped at a red light. Of course, going too fast with a trailer hooked up, we don't stop in time. No injuries and minor damage, but we still had to remove parts of our bumper.

Needless to say, I drove most of the rest of the trip to T-Bay...and this year, if I see a reckless driver, I'll be faster and more vocal about it. Lesson learned.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:25 pm

Kelley wrote:I was actually one of the passengers in the truck when it rolled. I must admit that it was pretty scary but I was EXTREMELY thankful that I was wearing a seatbelt. I have always been strongly encouraged by vet planters and management alike to wear a seatbelt and I am now very glad that I listened to them. The driver was in fact only going 60 km/hour and I don't see what he could have done differently given what happened. In my opinion it was due to the extremely slick Alberta mud roads that had been nicely greased up for us the night before with the rainfall, as well as the fact that the back of the truck was fully stocked with boxes of trees (both of which are pretty regular factors).

I heard your wild back-seat dancing to Canadian indie-rock distracted the driver, resulting in the crash.

I'm not saying it's entirely your fault, just mostly.

duderancher · Post by **duderancher** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:26 pm

Good thread Scooter. BrinkMart had four fatalities last year. Believe me you don't want to wake up in the morning to find out the guy who was having a beer next to you a few nights before is now dead.

As I said in the other thread: Drivers, don't move the truck until everyone is buckled up. Peer pressure can work for you in amazing ways.

RPF · Post by **RPF** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:49 pm

Excellent topic.
I just want to add that regardless of how fast/slow or how short the distance to be travelled - ALWAYS, ALWAYS wear your seat belt when the vehicle is in motion. The driver should never move the vehicle until everyone is buckled in. You never know when something could go wrong - especially on some of the steep, narrow roads on the BC coast.

I don't necessarily have a tree planter story, but a few years ago, a crew of forest engineers were travelling up a steep grade when the crewcab stalled. The driver was inexperienced in driving a standard transmission, and the truck started to roll downhill as he tried to get it started again. It gained speed going backwards, and hit a cross ditch which resulted in the passengers inside being violently jostled. The person in the back seat was not wearing a seatbelt and as a result hit their head on the roof of the cab. This combined with a whiplash reaction resulted in that person suffering a broken back. Fortunately the spinal cord was not severed, however they were off work for several months.

seanjackins · Post by **seanjackins** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:59 pm

Visual Check everytime drivers! Protect your butt!

Anyone have any stories involving drinking and driving while planting?
It's surprising for me, I witnessed a lot of drinking and driving in other industries (seismic line slashing), but not once have I heard of any drinking and driving in 3 years of planting in my camp.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:47 pm

duderancher wrote:Good thread Scooter. BrinkMart had four fatalities last year. Believe me you don't want to wake up in the morning to find out the guy who was having a beer next to you a few nights before is now dead.

I was in one of the camps where a fatality occured, and it was a good friend of mine, with who I had planted many contracts.

This specific fatality was not a roll-over, but was a near miss accident, where the staff member who died was driving a quad, and went into the ditch avoiding an oncoming mining company truck on a narrow road. He was not wearing his helmet...and suffered a fatal blow to the head from the quad trailer.

So not only buckle up, but wear your helmet whenever you are quading. You never know whats around the corner.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:56 pm

seanjackins wrote:Anyone have any stories involving drinking and driving while planting?
It's surprising for me, I witnessed a lot of drinking and driving in other industries (seismic line slashing), but not once have I heard of any drinking and driving in 3 years of planting in my camp.

There was a story going around ontario of a A&M camp where some planters were drunk on party night and decided to go hang out in their truck. Someone had the fool idea to start the truck and somehow drove it into a nearby lake. The people in the front seat managed to get out, but a girl got stuck in the back seat and drowned.

Not 100% on the truth of this story, but I'm pretty sure there was an article about it on the safety board in my rookie camp.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:49 pm

That was Blue Collar camp, just east of Quesnel. Year was 2003. The girl's name was Julia James. She was chilling in the back listening to tunes, when a fellow planter jumped in and drove away (drunk) and into the lake. He got out, Julia didn't. Her family, her co-workers, and the company owners were devastated by this.

At his court hearing, the young man who was driving that night instructed his legal counsel NOT to seek a reduced sentence. A very rare move showing full acknowledgment of responsibility. He was given four years, and was likely released 2-3 years ago.

Her father, Colin James (not the musician) wrote a very compelling narrative about the incident from the family's point of view, that brought a rather sobering perspective to our industry. I'll post the link when I figure out where it is.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:52 pm

Here's the link to the text: http://www.replant.ca/juliajames.html

The speech was recorded on videotape when he first gave it, and I actually try to play the video for my camp at the start of the year each year as a reminder.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:36 pm

Didn't Outland in Ontario have a similar incident in the mid 90's? I've heard it referred to a couple of times.

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:10 pm

I've also heard that story plenty of times throughout the years. Outland used the Blue Collar (Which was then owned by Outland) incident to increase safety measures in a time where they were greatly needed...

But the incident they were referring to was definitely that one.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:02 pm

Tupperfan wrote:I've also heard that story plenty of times throughout the years. Outland used the Blue Collar (Which was then owned by Outland) incident to increase safety measures in a time where they were greatly needed...

I think that quite a few companies tell the story to their planters at the start of the season, so it is fairly well known.

Years ago when I was at A&M we had some staff who had previously worked for Blue Collar and they made sure people were aware of that incident as well as the incident involving the supervisor who got beat up by bikers in the hotel because of a planter and drugs. Working for Blue Collar now, at least in our camp, if we are having an in-camp night off no booze comes out before all keys to every vehicle in camp are locked up either in the cook shack or office.

E.E · Post by **E.E** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:56 pm

Thanks for posting Colin James' comments, Scooter.

backcountrysister · Post by **backcountrysister** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:01 am

I am actually a good friend of the guy who tried to save Julie. We ended up finishing that contract. It sounded very awful.the driver was too drunk to help her. the locks where automatic & seized up and locked. My friend dove in ice water and tried to get the window & door to open. I think he spent quite a bit of time in the water. VERY SAD. This also makes me look at buying a vehicle that doesn't have a automatic locking system.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:05 pm

I always disable the auto-locks at the very start of the season. The manual shows how to do it. It's pretty complicated, but anyone should be able to figure it out. Usually something strange like, "turn the ignition off and on three times within ten seconds, move the key back off, beep the horn twice, and press the hazard flasher knob." Or whatever.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:29 pm

Here's another accident, happened about a week ago. This isn't one of our own trucks. It belonged to the ground crew of the helicopter company that was flying us. We had a big snowstorm in Swan Hills, so the pilot called the ground crew guy in Whitecourt to come bring the "winter covers" for the helicopter. A few kilometers before he got to us, he slid on the road and rolled his truck. No injuries, except to his pride.

This is a good road to use as an illustration of how slippery the Alberta mud can get. A few days later, after another moderate rain, we were driving out this road (the Goose Tower) and I had to tell one of my own drivers in front of me to slow down because he was sliding around so much. He was going 35 km/hr at the time. Sometimes, the roads are dangerous at just about any speed.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:43 am

I'm glad we aren't driving on roads like this one. This is called the "Road of Death" and it's somewhere in South America, maybe in Bolivia I think.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:01 pm

I would not drive on that road. Or ride in any passenger vehicle on it.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:10 pm

wow! i have heard of that road. reminds me a bit of the heckman pass to bella coola.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:22 am

Here's a view of the same road, from a bicycle (not me, but a crazy *$%*&ing firend of mine). My best friend rode it during one of his trips through the Americas. I think the dude is even crazier now that I've seen more pictures of the road. He made it seem like it was no big deal, and said there are more dangerous roads to travel.

: n1411164483_30208494_1163.jpg (72.2 KiB) Viewed 25600 times

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:41 pm

And the "fog" in the left side of the photo is probably just smoke from a truck that has rolled off the embankment and exploded.

Richianity · Post by **Richianity** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:05 am

I don't think I'd even bother to buckle up...

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:52 pm

I ALWAYS wore my seat belt. My foremen average speed was probably 120+km\h on the dirt roads leading to our peices. We once hit 160km\h

Ben Mac · Post by **Ben Mac** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:03 am

Yeah not only do most of the dirt roads have a speed limit of usually 70km/hr your foreman should just know better than to drive over 100k on the dirt roads. Steel; to me that is just plain stupid, ignorant and crazy that your foreman would drive that fast with planters he is responsible for...He must have never driven long on the dirt roads or have never been in an accident or seen an accident to know what its like to lose control at 100. The rules for not wearing a seatbelt in my company results in your ass getting canned which is not surprising, but whenever my foreman drives to fast for comfort i literally tell her to slow the f**k down! Well I guess it may be harsh but i basically only trust myself when driving.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:12 am

steel8909 wrote:I ALWAYS wore my seat belt. My foremen average speed was probably 120+km\h on the dirt roads leading to our peices. We once hit 160km\h

My advice after reading this and your other post about not having enough water in camp: find a new company and don't go back to that one under any circumstance.

It's simply not safe on the logging roads to even approach 120. At best I usually stuck between 60-80km/h, but it really depends on road conditions. It's real easy to lose control of a truck, even on the dry roads, at any speed. All it takes is hitting one little rut and you're fishtailing.

I don't know why in the world you got in the truck with your foreman after the first incident.

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:31 pm

^ I had no choice. This was the only job I had for the summer, plus it would of cost me $300-500 to get back home. Atleast this company drove us back to the main cities. I was lucky, my drop off was a two mintues drive from my house.

Along with a seat belt, I wore my helmet too. Going up and down hills our vans would catch some air, then hit the ground again...B000M! Our heads would hit the roof of the van...seriously. It wsn;t like my foreman was an inexperienced driver, he had tons of experience and liked to show it off. At the end of a hard day, it did get pretty annoying and uncomfortable wit an aching body.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:07 pm

steel8909 wrote:^ I had no choice. This was the only job I had for the summer, plus it would of cost me $300-500 to get back home. Atleast this company drove us back to the main cities. I was lucky, my drop off was a two mintues drive from my house.

Along with a seat belt, I wore my helmet too. Going up and down hills our vans would catch some air, then hit the ground again...B000M! Our heads would hit the roof of the van...seriously. It wsn;t like my foreman was an inexperienced driver, he had tons of experience and liked to show it off. At the end of a hard day, it did get pretty annoying and uncomfortable wit an aching body.

Plenty wrong with all you just said. Quite a few of us on these boards are very experienced bush drivers and we know that you can lose control very quickly at any speed regardless of the road conditions. Scooter's probably got the most driving experience here and I'm sure he doesn't come close to touching 120-160km/h on those roads. At that speed on those roads you're not showing that you're an experienced driver, you're showing that you're irresponsible, should not be behind the wheel, and have no regard for your life or anyone else's for that matter.

I've been doing less than 30km/h before and had the back end of the truck kick out unexpectadly on me before. Sometimes you won't see a washboard section until you hit it and those will throw the truck around at most any speed. If you're doing 120 and hit a washboard, there's a good chance you're going to write that truck off.

As for having no choice but to get in the truck, fuck that. Why on earth would you willingly put your life in someone else's hands like that?? If you don't feel safe riding with someone, don't get in their vehicle. EVER. You can't be fired (legally anyway) for refusing to ride with someone. I know we had a policy in place where if you didn't feel safe riding with a driver then you had the full right to refuse being in that vehicle and someone else would drive you back to camp. Depending on the circumstances, the supervisor would be having a chat with the driver and possibly replacing or firing them if the situation called for it.

I know you didn't realise any better at the time because you were a rookie and it gets me rather pissed off to hear that companies are still allowing such irresponsible people to be driving their vehicles and putting lives at risk.

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:58 pm

Isn't your life worth a bit more than $500?

Everytime a worker quietly endures this kind of bullshit, they increase the chance that either themselves or someone else is going to die.

The vast majority of forestry deaths occur on the road, this stands true for silviculture even more strongly. If your driver is speeding, tell them to slow down. If they refuse, tell your boss. If nothing is done, quit and report them to WorkSafeBC, and consider other legal recourse. That should be the basic attitude of every worker out there, even the new ones.

I'm not looking to crucify steel8909 for putting up with dangerous driving, not just because he/she is a rookie, but also because the sad truth is that most long-term vets have gone through some sort of similar experience and kept quiet and put up with it at some point in their career. This is one of the critical parts of the industry that desperately needs to change to make things safer- the attitudes of the workers and the culture of danger. We need to drop this idea that we somehow need to endure the unreasonable. Drop the idea that hunkering down and putting up with unsafe conditions somehow makes you part of "the club" or is just part of the job. If someone is driving like an ass, they're either in a hurry to make an extra buck or trying to show off, at the expense of your safety. Screw that. People who do this sort of thing have no place in the industry.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:37 pm

Scooter's probably got the most driving experience here and I'm sure he doesn't come close to touching 120-160km/h on those roads.

I think it's dangerous to use actual numbers, because the "safe" speed is totally dependent on conditions.

As a general rule, you shouldn't be going faster than 80 km/h on even the best of dirt roads. Unfortunately though, it happens sometimes. I make mental efforts to hold to speed limits all the time. Sometimes though, it's tough. I've occasionally been reminded myself to slow down by planters - once each in the past two summers. I felt pretty embarrassed each time, but the point hits home. People like myself with hundreds of thousands of kilometers of dirt road experience can sometimes be just as risky as inexperienced drivers, due to over-confidence.

As a driver, reminding yourself to drive at a safe speed is something that you have to do constantly.

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:53 pm

jdtesluk wrote:Isn't your life worth a bit more than $500?

Everytime a worker quietly endures this kind of bullshit, they increase the chance that either themselves or someone else is going to die.

The vast majority of forestry deaths occur on the road, this stands true for silviculture even more strongly. If your driver is speeding, tell them to slow down. If they refuse, tell your boss. If nothing is done, quit and report them to WorkSafeBC, and consider other legal recourse. That should be the basic attitude of every worker out there, even the new ones.

I'm not looking to crucify steel8909 for putting up with dangerous driving, not just because he/she is a rookie, but also because the sad truth is that most long-term vets have gone through some sort of similar experience and kept quiet and put up with it at some point in their career. This is one of the critical parts of the industry that desperately needs to change to make things safer- the attitudes of the workers and the culture of danger. We need to drop this idea that we somehow need to endure the unreasonable. Drop the idea that hunkering down and putting up with unsafe conditions somehow makes you part of "the club" or is just part of the job. If someone is driving like an ass, they're either in a hurry to make an extra buck or trying to show off, at the expense of your safety. Screw that. People who do this sort of thing have no place in the industry.

Yea I should of spoken up, I'm too passive sometimes. Another thing they did was load like 4 people on an ATV + the driver, when it clearly says "NO PASSENGERS". I remember pointing out the sign, and everybody just laughed. SO there I was, sititng on the front end of an ATV going like 50km\h holding on for my life.

We planted in ONtario though, not BC. I'm assuming theres a WorkSafeOntario so I'll check that out. Lets say I complain, then what happens? Becasue judging by everyones reactions, this is some serious stuff. Will we get some sort of compensation or something?

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:10 pm

Will we get some sort of compensation or something?

No, but you could prevent someone else from having a shitty summer like you did. Or even more importantly, prevent someone from getting injured or killed.

Besides, if you go work for one of HRI's competitors, do you really want HRI to be breaking the rules and using that as a competitive advantage, so your new company can't bid as aggressively on contracts?

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:04 pm

steel8909 wrote: Yea I should of spoken up, I'm too passive sometimes. Another thing they did was load like 4 people on an ATV + the driver, when it clearly says "NO PASSENGERS". I remember pointing out the sign, and everybody just laughed. SO there I was, sititng on the front end of an ATV going like 50km\h holding on for my life.

We planted in ONtario though, not BC. I'm assuming theres a WorkSafeOntario so I'll check that out. Lets say I complain, then what happens? Becasue judging by everyones reactions, this is some serious stuff. Will we get some sort of compensation or something?

In Ontario, and everywhere in Canada, workers have the right to refuse unafe work. This is embedded in the law. Unfortunately, the employers do not always do their job in educating the workers, and workers need to look out for each other. Here is a link to Ontario Ministry of Labour. A good starting point for learning what to do to refuse unsafe work, and how the process works.

http://www.worksmartontario.gov.on.ca/s ... ntID=2-4-3

I'm bummed that you had to put up with that crap, but I think it's great that you chose to share your experience with others to help them learn from it.

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:55 pm

Thx guys. I sent a little message to the labor board describing my situation. I'll e-mail other people who were on my crew to do the same.

Also on the bright side, I havent been scared off from tree planting. I'm looking forward to next year if I get hired by another company! I know my earning potential will be two or three times greater than last years.
And off topic but Mark's Workware House is having a huge sale, 20% off everything even sale priced items) , I'm gonna go ahead and buy one of those waterproof\breathability jackts and a good pair of steel toe rubber boots for next year! It's world wide so you should all check it out

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:02 am

Scooter wrote:
Scooter's probably got the most driving experience here and I'm sure he doesn't come close to touching 120-160km/h on those roads.
I think it's dangerous to use actual numbers, because the "safe" speed is totally dependent on conditions.

As a general rule, you shouldn't be going faster than 80 km/h on even the best of dirt roads. Unfortunately though, it happens sometimes. I make mental efforts to hold to speed limits all the time. Sometimes though, it's tough. I've occasionally been reminded myself to slow down by planters - once each in the past two summers. I felt pretty embarrassed each time, but the point hits home. People like myself with hundreds of thousands of kilometers of dirt road experience can sometimes be just as risky as inexperienced drivers, due to over-confidence.

As a driver, reminding yourself to drive at a safe speed is something that you have to do constantly.

You're right, it is dangerous to use actual numbers. I was pretty heated about this subject yesterday when I was making my posts because I no longer have the tolerance for dangerous drivers in our industry. I didn't mean to come down hard on steel8909 and I apologize if he took it that way. Tesluk makes a great point about those of us who are long term vets and have kept quiet about similar experiences early in our careers. It's a lot easier to have the confidence to speak up when you have many years of experience and don't have the fear of being disregarded as a know-nothing-rook or even being fired.

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:01 pm

This is a great ad on the topic that doesn't rely on shock value to get the message across...

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:57 am

I was very pleased to see this press release on the WSCA website a few minutes ago:

http://www.wsca.ca/index.php?Page=225.0&Key=798

Planters throughout the industry are starting to realize that rollovers happen every year, in a significant number of companies. I would be willing to bet that the "four" known incidents in this release do not cover the entire range of accidents in the industry in the past year. It is also reassuring to see a lot of planters who are no longer afraid to speak up and say, "wait a minute, we have a seatbelt problem here." And planters refraining from riding in spots where a belt needs repair, without prompting (and the driver taking the unit to be fixed on the next day off).

Here's the full text of the article:

Distraction and fatigue lead to truck rollovers.

Sep 13, 2010
()
Seatbelts likely played a major part in leaving workers shaken up, but otherwise uninjured according to near miss reports of four crewcab rollovers following this year's planting season.

Transportation to and from the worksite continues to be the most hazardous part of working in the forests. During the 2010 interior tree planting season, several silviculture companies experienced significant motor vehicle accidents. The incidents varied in severity, but every situation possessed significant potential for serious losses or fatalities. Some of the reported incidents included the following: - A driver was using a mobile device while driving, and nearly drove into a ditch despite warning from the passengers.

- A driver fell asleep at the wheel with two passengers in the vehicle, and left the road on a corner. All of the workers were transported to hospital, but no serious injuries were suffered.

- A driver reached for a radio and failed to negotiate a curve while operating a full crew cab on the highway. The driver overcorrected, and the vehicle hit the soft shoulder and rolled over. All workers were taken to hospital, and several minor injuries occurred. Immediately prior to the accident the passengers had experienced difficulty securing one of the seatbelts, but had taken the time to correct the situation before departing. This action may have saved a life. In each of the described situations, the companies investigated the incident and discovered weaknesses in their training programs and company policies. Although no critical injuries were reported, the circumstances of the incidents clearly indicate that fatalities may have been narrowly avoided. These situations clearly signal that there are important lessons about vehicle safety and driver training that must be learned by the industry in order to prevent needless accidents. Many companies have taken the initiative of reporting their experiences with vehicle accidents in the hope of helping others avoid similar or more serious incidents.

There are many important factors affecting vehicles safety in silviculture, and important challenges for companies to consider as they train their employees and review their driving policies and practices. - Because of the high employee turnover rate and heavy reliance upon younger workers in the silviculture industry, companies must utilize strong driver training programs.

- Driving requires focus and energy. The extreme physical nature of tree planting places significant demands on workers, and fatigue can impair the ability of a driver to respond effectively in emergency situations.

- The seasonal cycles of silviculture increases pressure to maintain production and finish contracts. Workers may feel rushed to begin their day, or be excited to end the day or season. These factors can influence their state of mind, and create distractions for drivers.

Tips for Employers and Drivers

Employers should remind workers not to be in a rush, and to remain focused on doing their job in the safest manner possible. The end of a contract may be the most exciting part of the season, but is also the point where fatigue and distractions may be highest. Drivers must not be distracted from their job. Companies must have clear policies regarding handheld devices, and should enforce them vigorously. Passengers must ensure they do not distract drivers with loud music or excessive conversation.

Radio mikes should be located in a position on the dash where it is easy for drivers to reach without looking for them, and without having to change their driving position. Checking that the mike is in the correct position should be part of pre-trip inspection practices.

Radio communications must be kept short and to the point. Drivers should pull off the road at a safe location if they need to engage in longer discussions.

Co-pilots can be designated to assist drivers with key tasks, such as changing channels on the radios.

Co-pilots can also monitor driver performance to ensure they are not affected by fatigue.

Drivers must be monitored, and increased training must be provided when performance does not meet expectations. Companies must be prepared to adjust their policies and training programs in response to close calls, including incidents that occur elsewhere in the industry.

Training Considerations Workers without experience on dirt roads or with large trucks cannot be expected to learn on the job or by simply observing other drivers. Proper training consists of detailed education and instruction, and the trainer must observe workers¡¦ demonstrate their ability to operate a vehicle on forestry road conditions and perform key tasks such as pre-trip inspections and emergency manoeuvres.

Proper driver training should teach drivers about fatigue and other forms of impairment, and how these factors can impact their driving abilities.

Back-up drivers should always be trained in order to ensure that replacement drivers are available when primary drivers are sick or injured, or too fatigued to safely operate a vehicle.

The personnel that deliver driver training must be properly qualified to impart skills and knowledge to other employees. Trainers should have extensive experience driving on resource roads, and should ideally have completed a course specifically aimed at providing them with the ability to instruct and evaluate others in resource road driving.

Driver Training and Vehicle Safety Resources The WSCA has developed a driver training course (Resource Road Light Truck Driver Training) aimed specifically at the needs of the silviculture industry and its unique workforce. The course includes in-field demonstrations and competency assessments. Companies can have their own staff certified to provide this training in their own workplace. Information is available at http://www.wscacourses.ca
or by contacting the WSCA at (604) 736-8660.

Additional information on vehicle safety in forestry and applicable regulations can be found through the BC Forest Safety Council at http://www.bcforestsafe.org/forestry_trucksafe.html

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:36 am

I haven't posted in this topic for several years, which is unfortunate since it's one of the most important topics for the entire industry.

The BC Forest Safety Council recently released a video talking about the importance of wearing seatbelts. This one targets log truck drivers, but the lesson is universal. I think if you spend seven minute watching the following video, it'll be a solid reminder of why putting your belt on is a good way to avoid unintentional suicide:

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:01 pm

Again, it has been a few years since I've posted anything in this topic, although I've seen a dozen photos of tree planting trucks that were destroyed in accidents in the past few years.

Here's something from way back. I believe that this clipping probably came from an article in the PG Citizen around May 30th, 1990. The company mentioned, Sauze Forestry, changed their name after the crash to avoid association with the accident. The new name was Bruin Reforestation. I believe that Bruin probably stopped operations somewhere between 2002 and 2003, and sold off all of their equipment. I think Bruin might have had a tie-in with one of the companies that is still operating in Alberta, although I can't remember the exact details.

This article is from a different time, when seat belt use within our industry was essentially non-existent. In fact, I suspect that at the time of this accident, it was still legal in the US for back seat passengers to remain unbelted. Canada was several years ahead of the US in that respect.