Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

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Have you ever had problems with ticks while planting?

Yes
13
46%
No
10
36%
Some one I know has
5
18%
 
Total votes: 28

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RedBaron
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Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RedBaron »

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Its been awhile since posting! I have decided to return after 5 years of management back to planting and I'm really looking forward to it!

I will be planting near Canal Flats this year and a few hours ago I had a discussion with a friend who remembers seeing large numbers of ticks in southern BC. This will be my first year in southern BC and I was hoping to start some dialog so we can all learn more about ticks and what kinds of risks we are exposed to. This poll will give some insight into the prevalence with planters and if any one has other insights feel free to post.

"Lyme disease is the most common tick-borne disease in the Northern Hemisphere. Borrelia is transmitted to humans by the bite of infected ticks belonging to a few species of the genus Ixodes ("hard ticks").[4] Early symptoms may include fever, headache, fatigue, depression, and a characteristic circular skin rash called erythema migrans. Left untreated, later symptoms may involve the joints, heart, and central nervous system. Late, delayed, or inadequate treatment can lead to the more serious symptoms, which can be disabling and difficult to treat.[5] Occasionally, symptoms such as arthritis persist after the infection has been eliminated by antibiotics, prompting suggestions that Borrelia causes autoimmunity.[6]"

The main questions that go through my head are,
How many cases of lyme are there a year in BC?
Has any one heard or had problems with ticks while planting or know some one who has?
Are the tick populations in BC genus Ixodes ("hard ticks") do the ones in BC carry Lyme?


Over the next couple weeks I will do periodical research and see what information I can dig up and I will post relevant articles in this thread. If any one has any insight or some time to find some please share :)

Best Regards,

Reiner

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Last edited by RedBaron on Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:08 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RedBaron »

I have been looking for risk maps for the occurrence of the Lyme Disease in Canada and so far I have found one that targets Eastern Canada. I heard that it is worse out east but it would still be interesting to see a risk map for western Canada and even northern USA.

Image

Other interesting general info, found at,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease
http://www.healthocrates.com/Ticks-and-Lyme-Disease

and a site with allot of detail I still need to read through,
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/577230_2
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by krahn »

while we had a lot of ticks growing up in southern manitoba, in alberta nobody even seemed to know what they were, and in BC there weren't common except in the kootenays, where i've never planted. although a number of years ago we started seeing some a bit south of williams lake. not a fan of these little critters.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Greg M. »

I've only ever experienced ticks on 1 block in 11 years. Just outside of Kamloops, green mantle road or something like that...
I'm petty sure that because it was used as a grazing lease and was an old (7-9 year) fill block that had originally been burnt, that these 2 factors were largely the reason we all had a de-ticking session at the end of the day....
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RedBaron »

Well I have stumbled on the jack pot!

BC continues to have a low endemic rate of Lyme Disease.
There were 6 confirmed cases of Lyme Disease reported in
BC in 2008 (4 male, 2 female), down from 13 in 2007. Half of
the cases were in the 60+ age group with 2 of those in
males. The provincial rate was 0.1 per 100,000.

Found some great maps on risk rates through out BC

Image
Image
Image

These are reassuring however I have been talking to a friend who knows a number of people that were having trouble being diagnosed with Lyme and feels these results are not accurate. It would still be interesting to see exactly what type of ticks are distributed through out BC and to put some understanding behind the low reported cases.

I found this very interesting ! Malaria is much more common then Lyme in BC :0

Image

Also for a USA perspective it appears that we would be in a low risk area for lyme

Image

If you guys want to look at different years and different diseases this web page is a great resource!,

http://www.bccdc.ca/util/about/annrepor ... m#heading1
Last edited by RedBaron on Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RedBaron »

Thanks for the posts guys,

Greg I think you are right about certain cut blocks being more prone to hosting ticks.

It seems a freshly disturbed cut block would not be an ideal habitat for ticks.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by FCC »

lots of ticks in canal flats the last couple of years. juniper bushes and grass. these are common where there might be ticks.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jdtesluk »

yea, anywhere where you have to move through brush, there is an opportunity for the little suckers to latch onto you. Also, I tend to feel that they are common in areas where there are lots of animals (ungulates and livestock). Not sure if this is ture or not, but all the places I have seen lots of ticks have been cattle areas with a good deer population (like Canal Flats-Ravenshead areas). My understanding is that there are ticks in BC that can carry Lymes disease. However, you are more likely to get Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, or just good old plain tick paralysis. The latter is generally a result of mutliple tick bites, and you would have to have extremely poor hygiene to suffer from the effects. However, it does happen, and is fortunately not extremely serious if dealth with at an early stage.

WHen I worked in the Canal Flats-Inveremere area, we would all get into doing the tick-check in the truck at the end of the day, like a bunch of monkeys looing for lice. You also have to shake out your clothing, because they will hitchhike back to your tent or motel room, and lie in wait. One girl had one drop on her head alien-style while she was cooking dinner. It seems they really seem to "bloom" at an early stage in the spring, just as the weather turns warm and dry. THey're around all year, but the early risers seem the most voracious.

In regards to Lyme disease, I think it's good to know what to do if you get bitten, but not get overwhelmed by concern. A tick has to be a certain kind to carry it in the first place, then there is only a limited chance the tick will carry it, and then even if it does bite you, there is only a limited chance the disease will be passed on. When you factor these 3 probabilities together, you get the true chance of contracting Lymes from a tick bite. You`re bang on though R-B, there are many cases that take far too long to get properly diagnosed that may understate the statistics.

That being said, if you do get bitten, you should remove AND SAVE the tick so you can provide it to a doctor for analysis. Even with pretty little pictures of ticks blown up 100 times their size, it is very difficult to tell them apart in real life, especially if they are smaller specimens (not to mention some colour variations). When it comes to removal, nothing seems to work so dandy well as a pair of tick pliers from MEC. Moreover, they work like a charm on dogs too. I've successfully pulled ticks out from between dogs' toes with them.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_deta ... 0312657822

DO NOT try to smother a tick in toothpaste, or back it out with a hot match or heated pin. Even if you do have a friend of a friend who has used such methods, or have had fortuitous experience with it yourself, these methods are highly frowned upon by medical professionals. There is a lot of inaccurate folk knowledge out there about ticks. If in doubt, consult a doctor or a OHS manual.

Removal with a proper tool (easily available) should be the only method. If you don't have tick pliers, one method that is also generally acceptable is the straw&thread method. Basically you put a noose of thread around a drinking straw. Then place the opening of the straw over the tick, and press the straw down against the skin so the tick is inside it. THen slide the noose down off the straw to the skin, and tighten it around the tick's lowest exposed part. THen gently tighten the thread, and slowly pull the tick up and out of the flesh. Tweezers have a high chance of breaking the tick head off in the skin, increasing the chance of infection and reducing the ability of med-pros to analyze the insect.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Nate »

Lyme disease can be a very, very nasty disease. Our camp took ticks seriously when I was working outside of Thunder Bay.

There are only certain types of ticks that can transmit the disease, however, other kinds are not potential carriers. If you're going into an area full of ticks it's nice if you can grab some info on them. We called the enviro-science department at Lakehead in T.Bay and one of the professors sent us a bunch of literature on it, along with pictures of the dangerous and non-dangerous types.

I believe in general wood ticks are fine, it's deer ticks that are the potential problem.

You're not really going to prevent yourself from getting them either way, but it's nice to know how to identify them, so you know whether or not you need to really seriously get them taken care of; especially if you ever have one baloon on you - that is awfully gross.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by dreamofcream »

In western manitoba last year we had a tick problem on many of the blocks we worked on, primarily areas where there was tall grass of other vegetation. Our forester told us that the region solely had WOOD ticks, like nate said, and not DEER ticks, and so no lyme disease was or could be transferred. It was still a bitch to strip down every night to check top to bottom that you were alright before sleeping, and taking them out was annoying. I had heard of different ways like heating a pin, the noose and straw trick, and tried a few of them (I probably got a total of 3 ticks on me all season, a few people had as much as three at a time). I found, after instruction from the safety officer, using plain needlenose pliers gently pulling with the plier as far up the body of as possible, ideally the head was the most effective. it became the standard in how to de-tick yourself after a few people got infections from leaving the head inside the skin when trying the hot pin or some goons trying to burn them out with a smoke. Also, for all dog owners but especially long haired pooches, the dog is FAR more likely to get ticks than you, police that shit and check your dog nightly. Long story short, even if the specific tick species can't give you a serious illness, they still suck balls.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RedBaron »

Its interesting to read your guys accounts,

I have found another great web page that talks about what species of ticks we have in BC and if they can transmit Lymes,

"There are more than 20 species of ticks in British Columbia, but only three species normally bite humans. Although the bites may sometimes be painful and slow healing, there is little danger of disease provided they are removed promptly. Adult ticks are distinguished from insects by having eight legs rather than six. They cannot jump or fly and do not drop from trees. Ticks require blood as a source of protein for egg development.

There is no need to fear or avoid tick-infested country. A few simple precautions, outlined in this pamphlet, will decrease the likelihood of tick bites. "

The Three that bite humans in BC are,

The Rocky Mountain wood tick
this tick occurs in the interior dry belt from the United States border north as far as Williams Lake and eastward into Alberta. It is not found west of the Coast Range mountains.

The Western Black-legged Tick or Deer tick
This is the only confirmed vector of Lyme disease in North America.
The Western Black-legged tick is very common during the spring and early summer. It occurs on vegetation in warm, moist areas on Vancouver Island, the Gulf Islands, and along the mainland coast between the United States border and Powell River. Its eastward range extends along the Fraser River to Yale and north to Boston Bar.

The brown dog tick
is a reddish-brown species that attacks dogs, usually feeding around the ears and between the toes. It rarely feeds on humans.

For more info and the full pamphlet go to
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/cropprot/ticksbc.htm
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by landhammerer »

i have so much deet and citronella on my body no bug ever wants to fuck with me
The more flies you eat, the less there are to bite you
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by TheHamsterizer »

RedBaron wrote:Although the bites may sometimes be painful and slow healing, there is little danger of disease provided they are removed promptly.
Painful? most people cant even feel it. At a bad tick camp I worked at we always were told that if you 'unscrew' the tick from it's host you can't get any diseases. It's only when part of the tick breaks off inside of you that you can get an infection. Maybe these were different kinds of ticks....
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by The_Bearslayer »

Breaking the tick's head/abdomen or whatever off in your skin simply causes infection -- the tick's anticoagulant contains the communicable diseases people have mentioned. Your risk of contracting any of them are vanishingly small. Plus ticks tend to have a hard time figuring out where to bite people, I find them on my clothes hours after coming home but have never been bitten. If one does bite you, use the cigarette technique and it should withdraw immediately.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jayBOT »

Oh I hates them!

I have had trouble with ticks but found the problem to be relatively local. For instance around Atikoken, ON many season ago they were terrible. Cross hwy 17 (50 km north of the mentioned area) and suddenly we all stopped picking them up.

Generally I feel they are not worth worrying about unless you find yourself in an infested area. And you know when your in an infested area! After spending an night with a couple live ticks in my sleeping bag (slipped in when I changed after work) we were all grooming and checking are selves like social primates.

Heading back to the (in my mind) infested zone this year and I am loving the sound of these:
jdtesluk wrote:http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_deta ... 0312657822
Have used the cigarette method before. Not recommended. The tick (now the size of a small grape) did not back out and I ended up getting burned.

Also this:
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by lobstah »

FCC wrote:lots of ticks in canal flats the last couple of years. juniper bushes and grass. these are common where there might be ticks.
Hey FCC, you wrote to me about the carrant shovels yesterday, but I can't message you or anything. Anyways, I'm interested, so you should e mail me or something.
Thanks
J
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

This video looks like it could be interesting. I haven't watched it yet though:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... _DNL_art_1

Here's the trailer:

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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jdtesluk »

Interesting article in the National Post about Ticks this week.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/08/07 ... eventable/
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by newforest »

Is it wrong to head into town after a day of planting, discover another wood tick crawling around on your clothes, and set it free in the bank or grocery store or restaurant you are in? The worst is when they fall off of your clothes onto a counter in front of a cashier or non-planting customer.

I probably couldn't count how many wood ticks I have seen. Some years are worse than others. When you notice one, you just flick it away. The most common wood tick doesn't seem to be very good at attaching to humans, just crawling around them. Or maybe people regularly exposed to ticks are more likely to notice them before they can attach. ?

On that thought, I have always wondered if they have ever looked at the prevalence of Lyme amongst people who work outdoors, as opposed to those who don't. You would think foresters or ranchers would get the most Lyme, but I doubt it.

A lot of time spent outdoors, and I have only ever had one deer tick.

Lyme disease has been in the news a lot this year. Apparently it is frequently mis-diagnosed and there are actually several tick-borne diseases, some of them just now being fully understood by the medical profession.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jdtesluk »

Bit of an old thread here, but worth keeping active.

I usually shy away from any gimicky tick-removal methods, as most of them are absolute hokum and do more harm than good. This one, however, seems like it may be legit and seems to have little risk.
http://theshrug.net/you-have-to-learn-t ... mome_share

Just need a cotton swab.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

Here's a good article, one of the best that I've seen in a long time:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ns/599503/
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

This should significantly increase mainstream awareness of Lyme disease:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/08/entertai ... index.html
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jdtesluk »

I want to make a joke about Bieber deserving it, or asking why the ticks were not automatically repelled from him, but really this just hammers home the dark figure of Lyme and how many thousands of undiagnosed cases may be wandering about. I'm sure most people here know, but Tim Tchida is also fighting Lyme. He's been quite open about this over the past year, and he's not the only one in the industry at all.

Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation representatives have attended the past few WFCA conferences and will be there again this year with educational materials.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

They had a great booth. I probably learned more from that booth than from any other.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by newforest »

I will just note that the chance of picking up Lyme has a definite impact on what work (i.e., where to work) I pursue lately. So far so good. There are still a few parts of Michigan that have plenty of ticks, but as yet no documented Lyme cases or exotic tick species, either. But those are shrinking. High altitudes seem to help keep tick levels down, too, in my experience in Appalachia.

I figure tourists and their pets vector it around some. Whaddcanyado
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

Yesterday's Joe Rogan podcast was primarily focused upon coronavirus, but then it turned out that about the last twenty minutes of the podcast moved to a discussion of lyme disease. So I'm posting this here. Start at 1hr 15min 41sec to get into the section about lyme.

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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by jdtesluk »

Of all the talk-shows out there, Rogan's may be one of the most interesting and grounded. He gets some really good guests.
I think Osterholm is a pretty good source. However, I am cautious to accept total authority from anyone selling books or claiming expertise over such a broad range of topics. I can't argue with most of what he says, but I do note some deviations in what he says about Lyme and what other experts (who specialize in Lyme, whereas he does not) say about the issue. Minor point really, but there are definitely other animals that eat ticks, such as oppossums, other insects, and some reptiles and amphibians. The medical community's understanding of Lyme is often different from that of entomologists. But again, that is kind of splitting hairs.

I find his theory on the over-reacting immune system fascinating. That is probably one of the biggest divides in the medical community - whether chronic Lyme is legitimate, or if there is actually some other chronic immune condition that may be triggered by the impact of Lyme and ensuing treatments and associated bodily responses.

My caution is that this is truly an area of contested science. Even though Osterholm speaks with incredible authority and an incredible background, his take on it is hardly definitive. There are competing theories on the topic that are not yet tested and proven.

My favorite Rogan moment is when he test the force of his kick against the pro fighter. Dude.
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by RPF »

Found this informational site posted on the web:

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/disease ... ickRemoval
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Re: Ticks and lyme disease on the block/ at camp

Post by Scooter »

I found a few tick maps that were produced by NRCan, maintained in ArcGIS, and relevant to current species distribution in Canada. I put static screenshots of the current maps on the page at www.replant.ca/ticks but the link to the source page with NRCan is (currently) this:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/ ... a5ba53bfe9

I found that by visiting:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... sease.html

Then go down into the series of links below and click on the green link for the risk map.

That page on Canada.ca is great. It has six major tabs up at the top, so make sure you explore all six of them.
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