Pesticides applied to trees?

[bluejay]

I'm trying to find a list of pesticides used on trees that I've planted in the past. Is this information shared publicly at all, would my company keep this information historically?

My doctor wants to know what pesticides I may have handled in the past.

[jdtesluk]

There is no such list. You need to ask what is on the trees at the time you are handling them. Your employer (ie planting company) will generally request a list of pesticides/herbicides/fungicides from the licensee, who generally obtains it from the nursery. This list will usually include items such as Senator, Maestro, Pounce, Daconil, Rovral, and other branded names for specific chemicals such as glyphosate and chlorothalinol. Along with this list, the company should acquire a set of Material Safety Data Sheets which outline the specific effects and handling recommendations. These handing recommendations are generally aimed at nursery workers, and not planters who receive the trees week and sometimes months after the last spray date, and which handle a fraction of the volume of trees that nursery workers do.

So as an employer, they are responsible for making the list available. As a planter you are responsible for requesting and retaining the information if you want it. It is virtually impossible to go back in time to obtain such info, and substances you "may have" handled likely number in the hundreds. It is unlikely your company retained this information in detail. Keep in mind, they handled dozens of different seedlots of different trees, and cannot tell which of those seedlots you handled yourself on your particularly block in your particular piece. THey may have a list of applications from past nurseries, but it is unlikely to be any better than a random list generated elsewhere.In this respect, your doctor is on a very vague fishing expedition.

The most recent research suggests, also, that the level of exposure for planters is extremely low, and far below the established acceptable limits for most substances. There can be exceptions in which workers are exposed to more, such as faulty application, or- in the case of fertilizers added to the trees as you plant- faulty handling (ie- use in too wet or too dry conditions). If you seek to know more, I recommend seeking out the Masters Thesis by Melanie Gorman from UBC (under supervision of Dr. Hugh Davies). Probably the best study done on the matter yet.

If you are making this inquiry as a result of suffering illness, I send you healing wishes.

[Evergreen]

Jordan's right about contractors not keeping lists of which pesticides were applied to which seedlots of trees. There are so many different ones from many different nurseries. For every contract the client (BCTS or Licensee) provides the contractor with a list of chemicals applied to the trees. They also supply us with the MSDS sheets. After the contract is done, there's no reason to keep the information specific to which seedlot they were applied to. We do keep the MSDS sheets but it would be very difficult to figure out which trees got which chemicals. Here's a list of some of the chemicals I'm aware of;

Rovral
Pounce
Ripcord
Actinovate
Ambush
Captan
Diazinon
Senator
Bravo
Daconil

There's also MSDS sheets for Plantskydd deer repellant and various different types of T-Bag fertilizers. The latter is likely to be more harmful than any of the chemicals applied to trees or their growing medium. Jordan's also right about the fact that these chemicals were for the most part applied to the trees months before they were lifted.

I've attached the FERIC report on fertilizers and pesticides that Jordan referred to.

[RPF]

I've often wondered if the information regarding pesticides applied to seedlings is ever past down to the individual planter. I pass this information including the MSDS to the contractor, but I'm not sure what (if anything) the contractor does with it. I'm assuming he is discussing this with his crew, but maybe not. Hmm, something to follow up on.

Regarding getting a list of pesticides used on seedlings, I agree with the other posters. Unless the planter kept track of which stock type he was handling and when, it would be nearly impossible to tell what pesticides he was actually potentially exposed to. I can't speak for other licencees or nurseries, but the company I work for have records on file dating back several years for what pesticides were used and when. So the information is there, but determining who had contact with it and when would be a bit more challenging.

[Mike]

@RPF: A couple companies I've worked at have said "Yes, we have MSDS sheets in the binders, etc." I actually checked at one company, and got photocopies of the MSDS's for a fert pouch, which we passed around and read with some amusement (WARNING: WASH HANDS FOR 5 MINUTES WITH ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP AND WATER BEFORE EATING, SMOKING, OR TOUCHING SKIN, symptoms include DEATH.)

The bigger problem isn't the MSDS sheets; it's that the recommended safety guidelines would take a substantial amount of time and resources to implement, and no planter is actually going to go for them when the other option is to make 25$ more each day. Timberline had planters carry around tupperware with soap and extra water in their day bags, but I don't recall ever seeing someone actually pull them out and use them.

There is a direct short term financial incentive to not take these safety precautions seriously, with ambiguous possible long term harms.

[jdtesluk]

I will be the last person to minimize the hazards of pesticides and other such materials. However, you should read the MSDS carefully, and acknowledge that they are not necessarily aimed at tree planters, and are usually aimed at persons that handled the actual material itself. There is a big difference between handling bags and barrels of pesticide in bulk form, and handling trees that were sprayed with a fine mist, then watered repeatedly for several weeks, and stored in a box for another few weeks, before being handled by you. As stated in the Gorman thesis, actual exposure levels for planters tend to be very low in relation to the stated exposure thresholds. This is a grey area, as the suppliers and manufacturers have not provided the industry with actual proper guidelines based on our actual tasks, so people are unsure if they are actually erring to caution or erring to risk. Indications are that risks are minimal, but yes an unknown degree of risk may exist. Thus, the vast majority of companies require that you wear gloves, and provide recommendations on eating and drinking practices etc.

I used to take a grocery bag with me to work. Inside I had a bottle of water, a bit of soap, and a clean shirt. At the end of the day, I put my dirty shirt in the bag, used the water and soap to wash my face, hands, and forearms, and put on the clean shirt. One small step to reduce exposure that took nothing away from my production. At first I did it for hygiene.Then I just got used to the nice feeling of being clean in the truck, and getting the day off my skin as soon as possible.

[RPF]

@Mike: Our regular contractor supplies soap and water, and like you, I seldom if ever see anyone washing up before eating. It's like the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink".

Individuals need to be responsible for their own health and well being. If, like you suggested, an individual feels that earning a few more bucks is worth the health risk then so be it. But please don't come crying to me later when you start to feel sick because of it. You were warned...

[Mike]

Individuals need to be responsible for their own health and well being. If, like you suggested, an individual feels that earning a few more bucks is worth the health risk then so be it. But please don't come crying to me later when you start to feel sick because of it. You were warned...

I'd put exceptionally good odds nobody is going to come crying to you --- 30 years from now when ex-planters who barely remember their planting days start ending up sick in bizarre ways, the people they'll be looking to is our medical system, and I doubt they'll think of planting. And that's a cost.

You want to change people's behaviours? Change the financial incentive, or more strictly enforce the rules. You can say responsibility as loudly as you like in a pre-work, but so long as people have a direct financial incentive to do the opposite, it's going to be ineffective.

[Cyper]

The simple truth about the company RPF works for is that they are very good at covering their butts with all kinds of "we promote safe practices" kinds of statements. In the end that's what they are just statements. They are designed to look good to an auditor when they are reviewed. They are designed to limit liability. They are designed to make the corporation appear to care.

Corporations however only care about providing good returns to their shareholders. They are not in it for the long term nor are they in it to ensure we Canadian workers avoid long term injuries or illness. MacMilllan Bloedel begat Weyerhauser which begat Brasscan which begat Western and Island Timberlands. Did I miss a few steps? Anyway what I'm getting at is these companies come and go. They go when the wood and/or the money runs out.

The amount of safety that gets done out there on the block is directly proportional to how good the bid price per tree is. If a licensee or the government really cared about safety they'd add a percentage to every winning bid as a Safety Incentive. Even a small amount could go a long way. $100 per planter could provide climbing helmets instead of ridiculous logger's hardhats or perhaps good gloves or walkie talkies or Tesluk's cleanliness kit.....

[E.E]

a) the risks associated with pesticides/herbicides/fungicides/fert exposure as they pertain to treeplanters are unquantified and that will probably never change.
b) protective measures mandated by MSDS are totally unsuitable for planting. If you wore impermeable skin barriers all day long to handle treated trees your hands would be covered in festering sweat sores by the end of a shift. This isn't a far out concern. Glove-related rash/skin breakage is a very serious occupational health issue in hospitals, and nurses/doctors work very cleanly, can change gloves as often as they want, and can typically air out their hands between patients.
c) I don't think it's practical to properly wash your hands on the block - that is, lather up and remove all visible particulate matter and rinse thoroughly - once, let alone every time you eat or drink. There's no hot water and you'd have to haul liters onto the block for that express purpose. Much more practical/effective would be slipping on clean gloves just for lunch.

Given that safety prescriptions aren't safe/practical and the risks are totally nebulous, it is very reasonable for people/companies to not give a shit about properly handling treated trees. It is also very reasonable to feel somewhat helpless and fucked over about the status quo.

Other thoughts:
if you're worried about tree chemicals but you're a smoker/heavy drinker, maybe reconsider your priorities.

[jdtesluk]

A) This is only partly true. Melanie Gorman's thesis is quite well executed, and does indeed rely on quantitative methodology to determine exposure levels. A better study could be done, but her work provides a pretty good assessment of the issue.

B) Good points here. Quick point to gloves. I was one of the early converts to the "half-coated" gloves that have only fabric on the back of the knuckles. I started using them in about 1998. Seems that over the past decade they've become an industry standard. However, on their own, these gloves tend to be woefully inadequate for the job at hand (no pun intended). THe provide neither adequate protection from cuts and scrapes, nor a proper barrier to handling chemicals. I always wore a surgical nitrile liner under my gloves.

Being a naturally unsweaty person, I had no problems with this, and NEVER once in 6-7 years of using the gloves did I ever have a problem with my hands. I also changed the surgical liner a few times a day. I bought a big box of them each year, and they worked out to mere pennies each. This may work well for some people, but not all. However, I found the surgical liner and half-dipped gloves to be a great combo.

In my last few years of planting, I started using a fully coated nitrile glove with a flocked (built-in) liner. These were slightly thicker than the half-dips, and of course did not have the crappy knuckle fabric. This provided both an effective barrier to chemicals AND protected my hand very effectively from abrasion. The gloves cost about $12-15 per pair, but they lasted an entire season (not just a shift). Because they were flocked, my hands did not swim around in their own goo. At the end of the day, my hands were generally pretty clean.

The catch is that the fit was perfect. I fit the large size with the perfect room to move my hand well and without it being too tight and causing tendo problems, or too loose and falling off. Sizing will not be optimal for everyone. I will dig around to see if I can find the glove to show pics of. I bought it at Watson Gloves after they moved to Marine Drive in Burnaby. Simply put, solved all my glove problems, and saved money.

C) I seldom had a problem washing my hands. No, I did not wash them to the level of serving food. But an extra bottle of water, a small vial of soap, and the use of an occasional stream did just fine. Certainly better than just rubbing them on my pants or using a dab of alco-gel. To be clear, I washed my hands at the end of the day for more than chemicals. It is simple hygiene and respect for others. If you go to the bathroom during the day, pick your nose, and what not, don't you think you owe to your co-workers before jumping in the truck with them at the end of the day? Lots of ways to make excuses about how we're all so dirty it doesn't matter. However, if planters just washed up proper before jumping in the vector (I mean the truck but you get my point) sickness and filth (particularly organisms that spread hand to mouth..i.e. noro viruses) would travel a lot less effectively. Face it, if you're not in a camp, the truck is the vector. I scratch my head sometimes wondering why this is not acknowledged more often.

(Other thoughts) yes totally.

It's not perfect, and the circumstances of chem use leave a lot of questions and people may certainly feel "fucked over" by this. However, in the meantime, there are things that CAN be done.

[Scooter]

and the use of an occasional stream did just fine.

We'd probably get in trouble in some areas for adding chemicals to the watershed, if it became known that planters were washing their hands in streams and using soap.

[RPF]

The simple truth about the company RPF works for is that they are very good at covering their butts ...

No argument from me on this point. However it’s important to remember that with the way society has evolved, corporations need to have these policies in place to protect themselves from lawsuits, etc.

Let’s look at it this way; If I (the employer) asked you (the employee) to do a job for me and I didn’t provide you with the proper tools/equipment or instructions on how to do the job safely what would happen if you got hurt? The fact of life is that you, or someone who represents you (society) will immediately find me to blame since I failed to provide you with the necessary tools to do the job safely. They will then want their pound of flesh from me. Hence, corporations have developed stringent safety rules as a way of keeping itself out of the glue.

The way that organizations/companies/contractors implement their safety programs varies across the board with some being more proactive than others. It's not a fair comment to paint all organizations with the same "I don't really care attitude" brush.

Regarding your second point about additional pay for safety initiatives: When I decided to hire you, I’ve told you what I’m willing to pay you, and I've told you my safety rules and expectations. If you don’t like them, then you are more than welcome to work for someone else.

[Scooter]

The simple truth about the company RPF works for is that they are very good at covering their butts ...

Sort of the same approach a lot of planting contractors try to take.

[Mike]

Regarding your second point about additional pay for safety initiatives: When I decided to hire you, I’ve told you what I’m willing to pay you, and I've told you my safety rules and expectations. If you don’t like them, then you are more than welcome to work for someone else.

To be fair, none of that is true. Planters don't find out about pay (which is piece rate) or safety initiatives (usually; some companies do some stuff via e-mail) until after they've been hired and they spent a good chunk of money on gear + replacing stuff + travel. So you don't know the pay, or the safety expectations, until the moment work starts each day.

If you say, sent me pictures of every block and pricing for it, and told me safety expectations in advance, I could appreciate that statement as true. But it's also terribly unfeasible; I'm rather under the impression that nobody looks at the blocks until planters get there about 90% of the time.

[RPF]

Regarding your second point about additional pay for safety initiatives: When I decided to hire you, I’ve told you what I’m willing to pay you, and I've told you my safety rules and expectations. If you don’t like them, then you are more than welcome to work for someone else.

To be fair, none of that is true. Planters don't find out about pay (which is piece rate) or safety initiatives (usually; some companies do some stuff via e-mail) until after they've been hired and they spent a good chunk of money on gear + replacing stuff + travel. So you don't know the pay, or the safety expectations, until the moment work starts each day. ...

Hmm, interesting. Is this true for ALL contractors?
It's been about 30 years since I last worked as a tree planter for a contractor, but if memory serves correctly, I was told what my base pay rate would be weeks in advance of starting work. What's changed, and why would an individual agree to work for someone without knowing in advance what they are being paid?

From my perspective now, I usually have an agreed price figured out with my Contactor weeks or in some cases months in advance of him starting work. It's therefore, very strange for me to learn (from the above post) that the individual planter doesn't know what he will be paid until the day he shows up on a block. I find this mind boggling (if in fact this is true in all cases).

[newforest]

I've only ever worked with one of the chemical trade names on that list, Pounce, which is actually Pyrethrum based I believe - a plant-derived compound. From what I recall of looking into that, including reading the MSDS in 2 languages, it wasn't a big concern to me to work with. It is so widely used in the south-east USA that it is now a pain to get seedlings that haven't been treated with it. It's just easier for everyone to use Pounce-treated seedlings on every site.

But I would think each of those chemicals on the list should be considered separately.

Also, gloves are only part of a solution. A planter's forearm gets a lot of needle surface exposure as well as the fingers and hand.

[Mike]

It's been about 30 years since I last worked as a tree planter for a contractor, but if memory serves correctly, I was told what my base pay rate would be weeks in advance of starting work. What's changed, and why would an individual agree to work for someone without knowing in advance what they are being paid?

From my perspective now, I usually have an agreed price figured out with my Contactor weeks or in some cases months in advance of him starting work. It's therefore, very strange for me to learn (from the above post) that the individual planter doesn't know what he will be paid until the day he shows up on a block. I find this mind boggling (if in fact this is true in all cases).

I like and respect that you are here, RPF. But I'm afraid communication might not be as good as it used to be in the industry, despite all our new tech and toys for that.

Planters sometimes get a range via e-mail before the season starts (10-20 cents). Sometimes that range is deliberately wide, vague, or misleading --- I know I've been told "Average price 14 cents" which meant "We have one block at 14 cents and the rest are 11." I've been told 11-15 cents and gotten 10.

I'd love to see companies required to give planters #of allocation + price at that allocation.
"We have 30 blocks allocated for 600k at 15 cents, 20 blocks allocated for 600k at 14 cents, 10 blocks allocated for 60k at 19 cents (fill) and 3 blocks allocated for 900k at 12 cents (trenches and mounds)"

Often I don't even know what I'm being paid for a block until after planting it. I'll be told something like "base price is 10 cents, but we'll adjust it" for a block that obviously should be priced at 14 cents, so we'll all plant all day hoping to get 13. On day 2 of the shift it will be "Oh, we're still working on the prices" and on day 3 of the shift it will be "Yeah, we've bumped it to 11 cents. Woo!"

I worked for an excellent company this season; one of the best in the industry from rumour and hearsay. There were still a large number of times where I was told "Base price 20 cents raw/13 cent prep" for a block that pretty obviously needed an adjustment and then not hearing about the adjustment until my payroll came in weeks later.

This is consistent at the 11 companies I've worked for. I have never had accurate and factual payment information prior to showing up in the planting camp, rarely had much more than vague inaccuracy prior to even hitting the block, and sometimes not knowing pay adjustments until well after planting. I'm certain it's not true in all cases --- nothing is. But if you like, I can go through my g-mail account and dig up the things I've been told by e-mail and then look in my spreadsheet and compare the quoted price range to the actual price range and the quoted average to the actual average --- in the places where management staff we're even willing to communicate those numbers --- because often they're not. And the number of times I've gotten to a block, asked the price, and heard "sorry, I forgot to ask" is somewhat high.

And you can find out if I've worked for any of your planting contractors quickly and easily through my signature.

[Cyper]

Regarding your second point about additional pay for safety initiatives: When I decided to hire you, I’ve told you what I’m willing to pay you, and I've told you my safety rules and expectations. If you don’t like them, then you are more than welcome to work for someone else.

Perhaps you are one of the few who decide to hire contractors based on anything other than the lowest bid. I'm suggesting you think outside the box in an attempt to improve safety. Your response is typical of industry - rejected out of hand because it involves paying some additional money. Offer the money to the contractor contingent upon them providing a plan to distribute it to the workers in some form.

[Cyper]

I'd love to see companies required to give planters #of allocation + price at that allocation.
"We have 30 blocks allocated for 600k at 15 cents, 20 blocks allocated for 600k at 14 cents, 10 blocks allocated for 60k at 19 cents (fill) and 3 blocks allocated for 900k at 12 cents (trenches and mounds)"

Often I don't even know what I'm being paid for a block until after planting it. I'll be told something like "base price is 10 cents, but we'll adjust it" for a block that obviously should be priced at 14 cents, so we'll all plant all day hoping to get 13. On day 2 of the shift it will be "Oh, we're still working on the prices" and on day of the shift it will be "Yeah, we've bumped it to 11 cents. Woo!"

I worked for an excellent company this season; one of the best in the industry from rumour and hearsay. There were still a large number of times where I was told "Base price 20 cents raw/13 cent prep" for a block that pretty obviously needed an adjustment and then not hearing about the adjustment until my payroll came in weeks later.

I wish I could say I'm surprised that kind of misleading stuff is still happening even with the "excellent" companies. Starting a block with no quoted price is not fair and makes little sense even for the contractor. We are incentive driven creatures. If we don't know the price, motivation won't be there. This makes no sense for the contractor and making upwards price adjustments after the trees are planted is a waste of money. Good for the planter in retrospect but if the price raise was known before, the planter would inevitably have planted more.

Anyone who's been planting for a few years ought to know that most blocks were never actually viewed on the ground. More and more these days viewings are on-line or at best drive bys. Bids are averaged and it's only when the contractor's supervisor shows up and actually sees the block, that they know if the bid is too high or too low. If you've got a good supervisor who isn't too over worked, they'll get out pre-view the block and decide if it's bid correctly. Hopefully they have some leeway to adjust the price if it's obviously too low. It no doubt works the other way too with some prices getting cut down. If your contractor is disorganized they'll tell you some bullshit about base price and wait to look at production numbers before adjusting prices. But as I said they just wasted any chance of creating an incentive.

Since this thread is about safety I'm wondering what's a safer scenario? A highly motivated planter with a great price who is therefore busting butt to make as much money as possible or a disheartened planter moping their way distractedly through their day. I'd guess the motivated planter because they are more focused.

[Rage]

My pre-works with planters always include a section on pesticides. Planters are made aware that seedlings have been applied with pesticides; the type of pesticides and hazards associated with them can be found in the MSDS sheets which have been forwarded to the supervisor, along with a schedule showing which pesticides have been applied to which seedlings.

There are very good reasons for using pesticides on seedlings. The application of pesticides to seedlings is not wrong; however, it is wrong if planters are not aware that seedlings have had pesticides applied. Planters need to be made aware of what they are being exposed to and how they can minimize their exposure.

MSDS sheets are available for all pesticides and nurseries do track their application. Your supervisor should be able to get this information for you from the timber company / licensee. However it would be very difficult if you had to go back through several years and multiple contracts. And some companies may not keep this information on file past the completion of the project.

[Scooter]

A smart thing for progressive-thinking companies would be to collect all of the MSDS pesticide sheets on each contract (which is already being done at many companies) and just scan them and email them to all planters that worked on the contract. That way, the planters have a permanent record.

[Scooter]

Here are all the MSDS sheets for pesticides that may be applicable to the contract that I'm currently working on. I make these all available to all my planters, even though 98% of them probably never look at these sheets.

[jdtesluk]

I note that Daconil (chlorothalonil) is on the list. This is the one chemical (fungicide) that was picked out in the FPInnovations study (as summarized in the MA thesis by Melanie Gorman.

I quote from the FPInnovations report:

" It is difficult to interpret the specific health risk posed by the levels found, but at least one of the agents used – chlorothalonil - is a group 2B IARC carcinogen (possibly carcinogenic to humans). It again demonstrates the potential for exposure, either by dermal absorption, or by ingestion if adequate hygiene precautions are not taken."

This agent is often liberally applied, particularly to fir trees. Not great stuff, and the EPA lists it as a probably carcinogen in their Toxic Release Inventory.

In short, it is unfortunate that the only info given to workers are these MSDS. It is great that they are accessible from diligent employers (thanks Scooter). However, it is not great that the MSDS are not only written in inaccessible language, but also that they lack critical information regarding the nature of the substances.

I continue to hold the opinion that (generally) chemicals on trees pose a minimal hazard if workers exercise proper hygiene habits. However, I am also of the opinion that certain substances should be removed completely from use, and substituted with a different less harmful substance. I argue that legislation requires that the hierarchy of control starts first with elimination (or substitution) before throwing a pair of cheap nitrile gloves at the workers. That being said, I also argue that workers should be more diligent with their hygiene and PPE habits, and should consider the information that is found in the MSDS and in other sources to better inform themselves of the risks of their job.

In short, majority of chemicals not a problem if you exercise good work habits. One or two chemicals bad and should be subbed or for less risky alternatives.

[Mike]

What percentage of planters do you estimate wear nitrile gloves, and wash their hands before eating and smoking as recommended?

[jdtesluk]

In terms of proper, full nitrile? Maybe 5-10%. The majority wear the nitrile-palmed, fabric-backed variety that seems so popular everywhere. Very very few actually wear a full nitrile, or a nitrile surgical liner underneath the half-fabric kind. On the coast it might be a touch higher, as people are more likely to use a full barrier (dishwashing-type plus a liner) when it is wet and cold.

I think that most are good about washing hands once home or at camp. However, very very very few wash on the block, and I never see it done for smoking. However, workers do often handle their food with baggies while eating.

I created a simple exposure-mitigation guide for informing personal habits among workers. (see attached)

Fertilizer and Pesticide Pamphlet.pdf

(300.42 KiB) Downloaded 183 times

I found the surgical gloves helpful, but I don't get sweaty hands, and these gloves don't work well for everyone. I tend to believe that the best option is a fully nitrileflocked glove (Option #2 in the guide). These breathe out around the wrist, provide a full effective chemical barrier, and provide excellent protection against cuts and abrasions. I used them exclusively through 2 years, and found them better than all other gloves before. They're just hard to find, and fickle for fit; too tight and you risk tendo, too loose and you lose accuracy and dexterity.

I also liked taking a spare shirt in a grocery bag each day. Before getting in the truck, I'd put my old (pesticide-soaked) shirt in the grocery bag, clean my hands and face, and put on the new shirt. One day, one shirt, every day.

[_I3^RELATIVISM]

the seams to be a push to fungicides, in the recent years. Dont be manipulated by the marketing, is as bad as pesticides, some processes, it is unfortunate that there isn't more regulation on this issue like other regions of the world. this ends up in most water-systems. I find it irresponsible

[RPF]

It's been 7 years since this topic came up for discussion and I just wanted to do a follow-up.

I'm curious if proper hygiene (hand washing in particular) on the planting block has improved over the last couple seasons due to Covid? If so, is it because of health concerns, or have companies provided financial incentives for planters to do so? (I make the distinction between health and finances since posts from several years ago suggested planters would only do proper handwashing if they were compensated appropriately - just curious)

[jdtesluk]

Totally due to to COVID. I have never heard of any financial incentive offered to people for good hygiene, apart from the incentive of not getting sick and not missing work.