better Bags

[Golden]

I've had some considerations over the years regarding bags, and the thought of producing a better set of bags possibly for a future (2014+) season has crossed my mind.

Thought I'd do sometimes research here. I'm quite excited and passionate about this and would appreciate any feedback.

I'll describe the bags as best as possible without giving up too much in the way of design secrets and see what the feasibility of creating these and bringing them to market would be.

I'll be straight up right off the bat. These aren't your usual bags you see in the stores right now, and as such they will carry a price tag that reflects the higher scale of materials and design. The bags are designed not for a 30-45 day season and toss them out after. They're designed with the professional planter in mind who wants to get multiple seasons out of their high quality high performance tools.

First off, I'd do away with a stock hip belt. The price would reflect the lack of a hip belt, but in all honesty I've seen so many pros strip the stock hipbelt and opt for an Arcterryx or similar belt that its not worth while at this point to redesign their products. Bags would come prepped with a strip of half Velcro installed and half Velcro ready to be installed on your newly purchased Arcterryx.

The bags would come as a 2 bagger with removable 3rd and 4th bags, as well as an optional gear bag.

Fert Bag included. 100% hassle free. No more 'drive you freaking crazy' OJ jugs tied on with zap straps that fall off 1/2 way through a bagup.

Flag pouch included. 100% HASSLE FREE! No more rolls dropping out the bottom. No more (fill in the blank) problems with flagging driving you crazy. My design guarantees that with a very little amount of practice a roll can be replaced mid-bagup between trees without missing a beat. Instructions for this included. It's also designed for guaranteed flag-grabs every time. No more double swipes, triple swipes, complete stops while searching for that 1/2 inch end of flag. No more flags torn too short so that the end falls back into the pouch. Full stop. Reload flag. None of that.

Best material considered: suffice to say the material will last at least twice as long as current material.

Fully articulating shoulder straps.

Top quality buckles and fasteners everywhere. No more mid-day full stops to fix a broken fastener here or there.



I've run studies.

Considering the flag pouch alone:

Flagging takes an average of 8 extra seconds to replace (complete stop to production) (over a study of various pouch styles). My pouch takes 0 seconds. A roll can be replaced before you get to the next tree (in land that requires each tree to be flagged...not 3000tree ground necessarily, but possible I suppose). Say you're replacing your roll 5 times a day (not an extremely high number). That's 40 seconds a day. PLUS all the seconds that go towards the frustration of that roll falling out the bottom of your half torn pouch being held together with duct tape.

Over an 80 day season that's 3200 seconds lost to the ether of nothingness.

In my theoretical (and real) example of 5 roll switches per day I'm considering land where the trees take an average of say 10-20 seconds per tree. (Interior Unprepped - Average Coastal). Consider slowest case scenario (Coastal) and 20 seconds per tree is the speed.

Over 80 days that's 3200s / 20s/tree = 160 trees lost.

On ground where trees take 20 seconds you should no doubt be getting paid at absolute bare minimum of 20 cents.

That's $32 bucks lost. Considering these bags should last 2 seasons no problem you're up $64.

And that's the slowest case scenario.

The material will last much longer than the stitching (not the current condition with bags for the most part. Current bags have tears in the bottoms/sides way before seams are coming undone (unless of course you're unlucky and catch a bad snag). With materials stronger or equal to the stitching, bags can be repaired at the seams while the material still holds strong. Material is many times more abrasion resistant than the current material used.

So what are your thoughts on a set of bags like these?

Even if they were $200, they'll easily last twice as long as the current designs. Throw in the Arcterryx belt for $75-100 depending on where you find one, and the bags are closing in on $300.

But the hipbelt is a moot point since chances are if you want to be comfortable you're going to do this anyway, and from experience an Arcterryx belt increases productivity much beyond its 100 dollar price tag.

So basically they could be twice as expensive to make/buy and you'd still be ahead with all the headaches and time:money lost.

Think do you think there's a market for better bags? I love my bags and would never consider going back to what I refer to as the Ryobi's of bags.

[mwainwright]

you got to spend money to make money. ill buy one.
could you make a decent stake bag?

[Golden]

mwainwright: My thoughts exactly on spending money to make money. Too many times I've done jobs with bad tools.

A stake bag. There's an idea. I did a contract way back where trees were planted, and then a tarp (basically a plastic sheet) was laid over the tree with the tree poking through a hole in the center...then you'd stake the 4 corners and one in the middle. Is this the staking you're referring to? Or?

Definitely something could be designed to hold stakes. Just a matter of dimensions and shape. It'd be removable and replaceable just like the others. Probably an ad-on considering the % of staking vs planting.

[Golden]

mwainwright: now I see your location. Haida Gwaii. It's all making sense now.

[chrisdunn]

I've never had a stake bag fit right. I think they should have an aluminum frame so they don't flip from one side of your neck/back to the other.

That's just me though. I'm thinking frame because then I could bungee the stakes so they don't shift. And I don't like weight on my hips.

[Scooter]

Golden, you're thinking about brush mats, not staking.

I seem to remember seeing a photo recently with a staking bag. If I can remember where I saw it, I'll post a link here.

[Scooter]

Oh, I know where it was, I think. In this video. But I'm not going to watch the whole 17 minutes again to find it. Can someone else who hasn't watched this yet post the time when the staking bag is visible?

[Golden]

3:57 looks like a bag of something stakelike.

Scooter...yes...brush matting. That's it.

So, you have to carry this thing around all day. Kinda like planting with your way out with your big drybag on...except its all day. That sounds fun.

Alright. Let me think on it. Its a tough one for me being as I've not experienced the joys of staking and the perils of the current stake bag design. But I like the sounds of this aluminum framing you're talking about, though not something I'd enjoy falling on. Ah..just had a brainstorm...aluminum is rather expensive...my bro has a plastics manufacturing company. I'm sure something in plastic could be made. That stuff is tough, and light, and super easy to mold into your hearts desire.

But to get it straight...these stakes look like they're a couple (ish) feet long. I know its a big thing in the Haida Gwaii and I'm sure bagups there aren't the 400-500 you see elsewhere. What would be an average bagup of stakes? Do the have a circular cross section? How thick are they? They look freaking awkard! I'd love to try.

[Scooter]

Stakes are often four feet long, although there are definitely different sizes. I've mostly worked with bundles of 25, plastic strapped as a 5x5 grid. A bundle is fairly heavy. You can carry 50 or more in a staking bag, although I generally preferred, when pieces were close enough to the road and flat enough, to just carry a bundle at a time and also carry the cones and trees all at the same time. I'd jam the bottoms of the stakes into my back bag on a 3-bagger and run them up through my top back strap. Hard to explain. I'll try to do a short video sometime soon to illustrate. I'm pretty sure I have footage here somewhere.

[Golden]

scooter you beat me to the submit button...

I understand what you're saying...bottoms in the back bag...held in place by a strap up high.

jeesh!! 25 tree bagup. hope its not a long run;) What the heck do you do if its 150 to the back?

[Scooter]

You suck it up.

Actually, I'd immediately switch to 30 per run, so it would be five runs instead of six.
And I'd contemplate even bigger bag-ups, depending on the slope and slash load.

I don't know, I'm certainly no pro at staking, but I enjoyed it the several times that I've done it. It's a nice change of pace.

[newforest]

ahh 'the ether of nothingness'

breathe deep


I am so slack, I almost got things set up to make a custom bag / prototype. Time to send that email.

[_I3^RELATIVISM]

Any update on the bags idea?
Seams like your project didnt went foward.

I manufactured a set of bags with expanded recycled plastic composite fabric (UHMWPE/Dynema, DSM proprietary name) including some modifications to standart design (infabric flager stop so no need to reload, 4 baggers, flagger cutter, etc). Would love to hear what kinds of materials you had in mind or were thinking off back in 2014, Cordura.

Cheers Alexis