Apex Reforestation

[retrovertigo]

We worked along side NATA and were getting paid 3 cents more than they were for the same land.

I think this is standard protocol.
2 years ago working for Brinkman in PG, we were paid 13/14c. and Nata was just down the road paying 10/11c.

[Pebbles]

I'm going to bump this thread and talk a little about my 2nd season with Apex. As I said in my last post, I came back to work with them for my second year. Our season start was May 3rd or 4th, cant really remember, and season end was August 1st.

We had about 2 months of bush camp, Pelican, Mackenzie and Fort St. James. And stayed in UNBC for about 3 weeks in the beginning of the season. While we were on the Pelican, we had mostly burn blocks. It was amazing land, no slash, flat and very nice black and smearable soil. We were getting paid a minimum of 12c for those blocks which was surprising. I was expecting a standard 10c. When we moved to Mackenzie the burns dissipated and we went back to raw land. It took the rookies some time to adjust to heavy slash and such, but the blocks were fairly standard for raw.

About half way through June we had a 5 day mini-vacation because we blew through all the spring contracts. Prior to this, one of the 18 packs had to get shipped off to another camp to leave work for the rest of the camp and avoid an even longer break.

A few times our prices got bumped up by 2-3c for really overgrown fill plants. Once it went from 16 to 19, but in my opinion it was still low for the shit block that it was. Overall, our average price for 2012 season was 12-12.5c. We had a bunch of really high paying fill plants that felt like straight plants and I made a lot of cash there. I made at least 2-3 times more than I made last season, so I was VERY happy with how the season turned out.

I was getting vet bonus which was $50 extra a day on average, assuming 1700-2000 production a day. As mentioned before, its 15% on each tree, and drivers were getting an additional $40 flat daily rate on top of the bonus. Pay was on time and in full, with the exception of 3-4 people who had direct deposit problems. The workers are treated well by the management, but perhaps I just got lucky with my camp supervisor.

We had a stashing problem in the beginning of the season and 2 people were fired. Other than that, no rookies on my crew quit, but there were 2-3 who quit on 6 packs who were also in our camp and only one person was fired.

Once again I will be back to work for Apex 2013 season.

EDIT: Regarding dibbles, rookies still had to use them for the first bit, but 6 packs let them switch to shovels right away. With 18 packs foremen let rookies switch only if their production and quality was up to par. However, 2nd year every one is allowed to chose whether they want to use dibbles or shovels. I chose to switch to a shovel right away and never looked back.

[The_Bearslayer]

It's understandable that people who haven't planted for other companies don't realize it, but:

Stashing problems, bribing vets to stay by taking money away from helpless rookies who don't know anything about the industry, and fill plants as low as 16 cents aren't standard in silviculture and are almost non-existent in large swaths of the province. Getting a few cents more than another rookie mill on one or two particular blocks isn't grounds to assume you can't find a much better job with the myriad other companies you know nothing about. Silviculture is a bigger and more varied scene than you realize -- go explore it a little, and don't let your foreman tell you how green the grass is at Apex when he hasn't worked anywhere else either.

[Pebbles]

Im not trying to paint Apex as an end all and be all of planting companies. Before making this post I've browsed a bunch of threads on other companies and yes, a lot of the smaller companies who hire largely vets pay more and do not have many of the problems companies like Apex has. Its only logical that those companies will charge more for a more professional approach than Apex offers. Can I make more money working elsewhere? Yes, absolutely. Is Apex a bad company to start with? I dont think so. Will I go work for some one else? Probably, but not yet.

At this point I would still like to get a bit more experience before making a bid to move to a smaller company. I only have 2 seasons done, and one of those had to be cut a month short due to an injury. At this point I feel that Apex is a good place for me to get the experience I need while still making some decent cash and having a lot of fun.

I think it will be pretty hard for me to move on when the time comes, largely because of the people. My first year the rookies created a pretty close knit group and we all came back for the 2nd year. Leaving all of those guys behind will be tough, but I understand that it needs to be done if I want to continue making money as opposed to becoming stagnated at the rookie mill as a 3rd or 4th year planter.

I guess what I am trying to say is that as far as mills go, Apex isnt the worst a rookie can do.

[Mike]

Does anyone know the name of the government student-wage subsidy that Apex has been rumoured to use?

[newb]

"For those interested, here is a quick look at student subsidies.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/epb/ ... scpp.shtml

The following has been taken from the link shown above.

Canada Summer Jobs 2011

“Supporting students; serving communities”

Canada Summer Jobs is a Government of Canada initiative that provides funding to help employers create summer job opportunities for students. It is designed to focus on local priorities while helping both students and their communities.

[newb]

and the best part ... Taken from the link shown above.

9. How much funding are employers eligible to receive?

"Public-sector employers and small businesses with 50 or fewer full-time employees are eligible for up to 50 percent of the provincial/territorial minimum hourly wage."

From what I understand they have well over 200 people, maybe close to 300? Essentially, the guy at the very top is smart.
What if you had one big company claiming to be 4?

The owner of Apex is very creative and uses many different resources to get additional funds. He is also very successful outside of the silviculture world. This experiment (Apex) of his is strictly profit.

[newb]

With a season of about 80 days (not uncommon for Apex), at minimum wage of $120 per day, this would translate to about $4800 per planter that Apex would get in student subsidies. Definitely something to consider when looking at the bids from Apex - 2013 Public Bid Results.

The best part is that Apex does not “top up” their rookie/vets planters, and they make them buy their own flagging tape (Apex group plants, so it is mandatory to flag). The camp set up, reefer duties, loading trees, and dishes are all mandatory unpaid work. For the most part the work days are 10 hours or more of planting, and i have heard crazy scenarios of 5 to 9 and 2’s.

Happy planting

:)

[Mike]

Newb, on a scale from 1-10, how certain are you that this is the subsidy that Apex is using? Did you ever receive, as a student planter with Apex, paperwork with this subsidy name on it by any chance?

[newb]

I do not work for Apex, but I know people who do (rookies, foremen, and Supervisors).

To answer your question Mike,

Verification between Apex and Service Canada are done over the phone, on the block, using a satellite phone. Here, Apex will give you a sheet of paper with the "right" answers. Not sure how the selection is made, but not everybody will be interviewed. I do not believe that Apex planters receive a personal sheet of paper indicating the type of subsidy, the amount, and the date/time.

On a scale of 1 to 10 ? ... Your too funny Mike, were you a Political science student or Psychology ? Mike, if your curiosity is about to explode then send me a PM and i will put you in contact with the right people.

:)

[Mike]

Thanks for the info. I did a degree in Political Science and Philosophy, though have done my own psychology research (mostly in rationality) on the side. Sending you a PM.

[Pebbles]

A post from the Bid thread:

Results from the IFS Prince George job in Mackenzie, funding from FFT:



Apex Reforestation $388,294

Dynamic Reforestation $628,381

Celtic Reforestation $655,208

Spectrum Resource Group $738,711

Brinkman & Associates $795,438

Folklore Contracting $1030,239



The spread on these bids is unprecedented. Approximately one million trees, summer work. The Apex bid can only be viewed as suicidal. The blocks are all walk-ins or fly-ins, often on steep group, more than two hundred kilometers north of Mackenzie. The ground was standing timber that was burned in fires, and ranges from soft to extremely rocky. Many sections have blowdown. There are danger trees throughout. Apex cannot have factored proper danger tree assessment or treatment into their bid. It seems unbelievable that Apex would make this bid, knowing how difficult the job was. This job has the potential to break a smaller company. Good luck to Apex planters.

This makes me very sad because I have some chance of planting this block. If the condition of the block is how it is described in the post, this is the most ridiculous bid I've ever seen; unless Apex just plans to pass up the contract which I hope to god it does. Not only does the block sound shitty, but planting for FFT was not a great experience last time I did it.

[Pandion]

This makes me very sad because I have some chance of planting this block. If the condition of the block is how it is described in the post, this is the most ridiculous bid I've ever seen; unless Apex just plans to pass up the contract which I hope to god it does. Not only does the block sound shitty, but planting for FFT was not a great experience last time I did it.

I hate to break it to you, but god has more important things to worry about.

[bradybelliott]

It's understandable that people who haven't planted for other companies don't realize it, but:

Stashing problems, bribing vets to stay by taking money away from helpless rookies who don't know anything about the industry, and fill plants as low as 16 cents aren't standard in silviculture and are almost non-existent in large swaths of the province. Getting a few cents more than another rookie mill on one or two particular blocks isn't grounds to assume you can't find a much better job with the myriad other companies you know nothing about. Silviculture is a bigger and more varied scene than you realize -- go explore it a little, and don't let your foreman tell you how green the grass is at Apex when he hasn't worked anywhere else either.

Well put bearslayer

[newb]

It's understandable that people who haven't planted for other companies don't realize it, but:

Stashing problems, bribing vets to stay by taking money away from helpless rookies who don't know anything about the industry, and fill plants as low as 16 cents aren't standard in silviculture and are almost non-existent in large swaths of the province. Getting a few cents more than another rookie mill on one or two particular blocks isn't grounds to assume you can't find a much better job with the myriad other companies you know nothing about. Silviculture is a bigger and more varied scene than you realize -- go explore it a little, and don't let your foreman tell you how green the grass is at Apex when he hasn't worked anywhere else either.

Well put bearslayer

[jdtesluk]

Does anyone here have contact information for Apex, including email information, preferably for management?

Much obliged for any information that can be provided.

Happy New Year!

[Mike]

From random google: 604-736-0063
Po Box 34156 Stn D,
Vancouver BC,
V6J 4N1

and

Apex Reforestation Ltd
210-2211 4th Ave W, Vancouver, BC V6K 4S2
604-736-1333

And Scooter's List, the Hardcoretreeplanters Mirror
APEX REFORESTATION (Alberta/BC work)
Box 34156, Station D, Vancouver, BC, V6J 4J1
Phone: (604) 736-0063, Fax: (604) 739-0205


Good luck.

[Marlo]

Fort St. John

[Casper]

We've not been in Fort St-John for quite a while, like 5 years I think, and I've not been part of a BCTS contract for a couple years as well. We had a decent contract for Canfor that we worked both from Chetwynd and Hudson Hope.

[granola]

The real gravy is the West Fraser contract out of Cache Creek/Kamloops and the Dunkley contract out of Quesnel. Also the Conifex contract can be pretty nice, haven't worked that in a few years though.

[East]

"3 cents hire then nata" ? Thats not saying much lol

[granola]

"3 cents hire then nata" ? Thats not saying much lol

From what I've heard nata pays in the 10-12c range. 13c vs 10c or 15c vs 12c for the same land? That's a big deal for the planters.

In any case, that comment is half a decade old in case you didn't notice.

[Pebbles]

The real gravy is the West Fraser contract out of Cache Creek/Kamloops and the Dunkley contract out of Quesnel. Also the Conifex contract can be pretty nice, haven't worked that in a few years though.

Dunkley is a money machine if you dig their type of land. Those road rehabs are money on a plate. Gonna get to work Cache Creek this season, should be interesting.

[granola]

The real gravy is the West Fraser contract out of Cache Creek/Kamloops and the Dunkley contract out of Quesnel. Also the Conifex contract can be pretty nice, haven't worked that in a few years though.

Dunkley is a money machine if you dig their type of land. Those road rehabs are money on a plate. Gonna get to work Cache Creek this season, should be interesting.

Haha, I'll see you there. Small world of replant

[redxiv7]

Just curious on how long Apex is planting till this summer (if they're still planting) - how's the land? Just about to take off from PG and still see a few of your trucks around, assuming it's your day off.

Cheers!

[Casper]

Apex is typically planting til lat week of July-beginning of August. We're all done for 2016 except a small brushing contract for West Fraser in 100 mile house.

[Pebbles]

Well the West Fraser contract was..interesting to say the least. Ether it was hyped up too much by everyone, or it had changed drastically from previous years. First half was a 11-12c grass mat with a required screef and obstacle planting on a certain side of the obstacle (east, west, etc). Not much fun was had there, some nice fill plants peppered in there as well. Second half was much more profitable with 11+ cent prepped land, mostly trenches and some other stuff. It was a decent contract, but very far from what the rumor mill before the season was promising.

[granola]

Well the West Fraser contract was..interesting to say the least. Ether it was hyped up too much by everyone, or it had changed drastically from previous years. First half was a 11-12c grass mat with a required screef and obstacle planting on a certain side of the obstacle (east, west, etc). Not much fun was had there, some nice fill plants peppered in there as well. Second half was much more profitable with 11+ cent prepped land, mostly trenches and some other stuff. It was a decent contract, but very far from what the rumor mill before the season was promising.

I last worked it a few years ago and my memory was definitely of a more lucrative contract. Might just be looking at past seasons with rose tinted glasses though...

[granola]

Well the West Fraser contract was..interesting to say the least. Ether it was hyped up too much by everyone, or it had changed drastically from previous years. First half was a 11-12c grass mat with a required screef and obstacle planting on a certain side of the obstacle (east, west, etc). Not much fun was had there, some nice fill plants peppered in there as well. Second half was much more profitable with 11+ cent prepped land, mostly trenches and some other stuff. It was a decent contract, but very far from what the rumor mill before the season was promising.

I last worked it a few years ago and my memory was definitely of a more lucrative contract. I particular I do not recall screefing of the magnitude asked for this year. Might just be looking at past seasons with rose tinted glasses though...

[granola]

Well the West Fraser contract was..interesting to say the least. Ether it was hyped up too much by everyone, or it had changed drastically from previous years. First half was a 11-12c grass mat with a required screef and obstacle planting on a certain side of the obstacle (east, west, etc). Not much fun was had there, some nice fill plants peppered in there as well. Second half was much more profitable with 11+ cent prepped land, mostly trenches and some other stuff. It was a decent contract, but very far from what the rumor mill before the season was promising.

I last worked it a few years ago and my memory was definitely of a more lucrative contract. I particular I do not recall screefing of the magnitude asked for this year. Might just be looking at past seasons with rose tinted glasses though...

[sammyv]

Does anyone have recent info on Apex? My potential crew boss seems solid and he said his group doesn't do group planting--but I'm wondering if a good crew boss is enough, if the overall company seems a little chaotic. Thoughts, advice for a rookie? More recent reviews of Apex? Thank you!

[granola]

Does anyone have recent info on Apex? My potential crew boss seems solid and he said his group doesn't do group planting--but I'm wondering if a good crew boss is enough, if the overall company seems a little chaotic. Thoughts, advice for a rookie? More recent reviews of Apex? Thank you!

Who is your potential crew boss? All crews at Apex group plant to a certain extent - some (such as mine) limit the groups to 2/3 people, others have whole trucks (max 6 people) on one large piece.

Apex is a lot of things, but it isn't chaotic. On the contrary, I would say organization is one of the company's strong points. Downtime is kept to a minimum, equipment is very new (trucks are brand new every year - this means no breakdowns. Quads are replaced every 2 years). Bush camp setup is top notch. Payment is by direct deposit and is like clockwork - I have never seen a planter go unpaid.