scooter, how have prices changed?

[Milk bone]

you've been planting for a long time. how do you think prices compare today to what they were when you started?

[Scooter]

I would say that they aren't much different, overall. Of course, the change in the purchasing value of a dollar due to inflation over the past fifteen years has to be taken into account.

In my experience, in 1990-1993, if a rookie could average $150 per day over the course of a season, and if a vet could average $225 per day over the course of a season, they were doing ok. I know that whenever I was planting full-time during my 2nd through 4th year, I would make "not coming home until I've made $225" as a goal, although other planters on my various crews usually weren't quite so concerned about the money. I would occasionally have a $275-300 day, but not very often.

Starting around 1994, the rules of the game changed. When LFH planting came into widespread acceptance, it was like a gold mine. Those next couple years, until 1996 or 1997, were the golden years in my opinion. Decent vets could suddenly shoot for $300-325 per day on average, and expect to attain that most of the time. Rookies were more often able to exceed $200 per day.

Of course, that got people spoiled perhaps. Wages started to drop over the next several years as the tree prices declined in a competitive market. Incidentally, there is a huge corollary here that most people forget to mention - working conditions got SO much better during that period. In the early 1990's, it was uncommon to have working vehicles, consistent contracts, proper first aid gear or camp facilities, etc. That was one of the advantages of planting - you got paid well because you tolerated working conditions that were generally intolerable. In the mid to late 1990's, companies started making the lifestyle easier to cope with in an effort to comply with stricter workplace regulation and also in smaller part to minimize attrition and employee turnover from season to season. As that happened, it cut into profits for the companies so their planter prices came under pressure, and it also became easier to retain experienced planters. Therefore average production numbers went up, which in turn led to more aggressive bidding in future seasons. Back in the early 1990's, if a planter could put in 2000 trees in a day, that was a badge of honour. Nowadays, I have the occasional rookie who has a 4000+ tree day, and I can name a dozen vets who have worked in my camp in the last couple years who have planted over 6000 in a day in low-priced, fast land. I used to think that planting under 10 cents was a sin. Now I'm not so sure. I'll take 4000 trees at 8.5 cents over 2500 at 10 cents any day, and I don't care if I have to bend over 1500 extra times. Of course, there's no point talking about prices unless the difficulty level of the land is taken into consideration, so why do people even bother arguing about prices in the abstract?

In the past seven or eight years, as planters got faster on average, and retention improved, prices naturally declined even more. I think it is safe to say that prices in the past two years probably will be looked upon (historically) a decade from now as being the low point for the industry. I've seen some good examples on the bid sheets this fall of prices starting to recover somewhat (although I've also seen a sadly large number of companies in Western Canada who are STILL bidding retardedly low in the past few months, but don't even get me going on that topic).

Prices in the west coast interior should be fifteen percent higher this year than last, due to the labour and salvage volume situation. Unfortunately, they won't be, because some companies still have blinders on and apparently have people putting together bid proposals who lack a decent understanding of how the marketplace could have been more much lucrative for the coming summer. I'm fairly happy with the bid prices that I've seen for work that my camp will be doing this summer, but I have to shake my head at some of the contracts that we bid on and lost, to companies that have undercut us by simply obscene numbers. In some ways, I don't mind that, because I think the industry is going to have a melt-down this summer and I think it will be easy for companies that have spare capacity to pick up some extra work. But that's just me being greedy; it would be in nobody's best interest in the long term for the entire industry to fall apart.

Tree planting is a very unique job. It rewards people with initiative and self-motivation, and it has a nice tie-in for those who like to do a little bit for the environment. I like to think of it as being good work for the "conscientious greedy." I just read a whole bunch of posts on Wade's message board from people arguing about the money. One of them really stood out - if you are ONLY in it for the money, don't even bother. Get a job in the oil fields, because you'll make more. Alberta needs an estimated ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND more oil field workers in the next few years, which is way more than the silviculture industry needs, and at better prices. But if you want to make GOOD money, in perhaps the second-most profitable industry for semi-skilled labour, and you want a job where personal freedoms are a bit more tolerated than in the oil fields, then you should think about planting. As much as it is "the job that you love to hate," I'd rather be a planter than anything else.

Anyway, don't get me wrong; I'd welcome price increases with open arms, and I think that planters deserve to make quite a lot because it IS a hard job. I just think that a very small number of people take it a bit too far - it annoys me to hear about people complaining when they are "only" making $400 per day for working 10 hours and then kicking back after supper with no additional responsibility above and beyond managing their own piece during the day. There are a lot of other jobs where you get paid a lot more than $40 per hour, but you generally have to have a professional degree or designation to get that, not six months of practice and experience.


Caveat: The above numbers and opinions all apply to INTERIOR west coast planting. Planting on "The Coast" (ie. the Pacific coast of BC) is completely different than interior planting. The skill levels there are higher and should be. The prices there are higher and should be. The mentality is different there and should be. Coastal planting is a job for people who treat it as a career, and I respect that. The amount of coastal planting is a small fraction of what gets done every year in the interior, and it needs to be looked upon with an entirely different mindset. People arguing about whether or not a planter is a skilled or unskilled employee, and arguing about what exactly is a fair wage, need to keep things in context. A fair wage for a summer job in the interior may not be a fair wage on the coast for a year-round planter. Even within each region, there are huge variations. Planters that work for companies that plant almost exclusively in the interior of BC may not understand the rationale for 8 cent trees in Alberta, and may think that people are full of it when they talk about people who can plant 4000+ trees a day in the right conditions. Regardless, it's a reality.

Anyway, I'm sure that a TON of people will read this rambling and disagree with a lot of my outlook. Contrary opinions are welcome. My views aren't necessarily "right," they're just my views.

[Scooter]

Addendum:

I'll just add one clarification to the above comments, having re-read them a couple days later. When I talked about my occasional frustration with people complaining about making $400 per day, I should point out that I don't think that $400 should be a specific daily ceiling or anything like that.

I judge planters based upon what I see of their work ethic and what I try to assess as their capabilities. I have had a number of planters in my camp who could have a $400 day and say that their land was perhaps underpriced, and I would agree with them and wish the prices were better. Some planters are just so good at what they do that I can agree with that kind of an assessment of the fairness of prices.

There are other planters whom I feel are not of a sufficient calibre to justifiably make that kind of complaint. For instance, if I estimate myself to be a "$350 planters" on a certain block, and know that about 25% of experienced planters in my camp who are in at least their third season are probably better planter than me, I would be less sympathic when a weak 2nd-year vet makes $425 on that block and says that the price is low.

So in other words, everything is relative, and depends on the block, and the piece, and the price, and the planter, and the weather, and the competence of the foreman in setiting up the piece and supplying trees.

I just thought I should clarify my previous comments and give some additional context, before some people just assume that I don't care about what the planters make. I work on commission, not salary, and I want to see fair prices. The more that my planters make, the more that I make. I just feel that there ARE rare occasions when asking for more money isn't justified. I like to see planters making a lot of money. It is only on rare occasions when I see a planter make a lot more money than would be expected on what I think is a reasonably priced block, and then complains about it, that I think is unreasonable.

[Scooter]

And another thing. Some non-planters might read this page and think "that's ridiculous, I can't believe that people are complaining about ONLY making a couple hundred dollars a day."

You've got to put that into context too. If you're working as a planter for a summer, you probably only have 50-70 planting days, in other words, only 50-70 days in which to make money. The money that you make has to cover a couple thousand dollars in expenses (transportation to get to whatever province you're planting in, camping gear, planting equipment, food, motels, and incidentals). Whatever is left over is quite possibly all that you have to live on for the rest of the year, which might mean an apartment and food and university tuition, or just basic living necessities if you aren't a student. If you can't earn $200+ per day, you might find your life very difficult. Sure, the earnings are high, but when you only get to work a couple months per year, you'd better make damn sure that it can pay you enough to survive, or you're going to get a job in a different industry.