Coast Range Contracting

replant · Post by **replant** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:27 am

This thread is devoted to gossip and discussion for employees and stakeholders of Coast Range Contracting.

This company is believed to work predominantly in British Columbia and Alberta.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:47 am

This company has a website at:

http://www.coastrange.ca

Poschmann · Post by **Poschmann** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:29 pm

I brushed with Coast Range in 1999 but maybe it was 2000. We started the season in Grande Cache with Joe Randall as supervisor. They are a really big company so I'm sure you'll get many good stories as well as horror stories. Overall I found they were a good company to work for. Grande Cache was a cream show and when we got to BC it was still very good land but the blocks were spread out more and we lost much production time due to lack of organization. One thing I appreciated about working with Coast Range was the number of girls we had on the crew running saw, most unnusual for a brushing crew but certainly welcome.

-Chris Poschmann

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:45 am

What's up with Coast Range? Have they completely severed all ties with Outland?

g · Post by g » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:02 pm

As of November 1, 2005, Coast Range has seperated from Outland Reforestation. Coast Range will continue as a 100% BC-owned company, run by Garth Hadley. Our focus is on solid contracts that allow planters and managment to maximize their earnings. We will continue to strive to be better, and not necessarily bigger.

Our core work in 2006 is 4 million trees for Weyerhaeuser Kamloops and Vavenby. We also have some work around Campbell River in March; work in the interior in April and July; and Brushing work in June and July.

Garth

RedBaron · Post by **RedBaron** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:20 pm

Hey Garth just wondering if Holberg is a go for 2006 I know its been a dircet award contract for you guys for some time now. Planted there last year and had a great time, would Jeff Luits be running it again?

Reiner--

kingjames_2nd · Post by **kingjames_2nd** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:17 pm

i worked coast a couple of seasons and found that they paid every 3 weeks or so for the most part. they claimed they were trying for 2 and I am sure they did try, but i rarely if ever got that pay before 3 weeks. maybe once now that i think about it.

word is they are trying even harder though so heres to geting paid on time. cheers

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:35 pm

these guys are out of the game on the coast, their holberg show got scooped by bivouac. i don't know what the fuck these guys do in the interior, but maybe its getting better now that they're considerably smaller.

maxie · Post by **maxie** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:35 am

i went to their holberg show a couple of years ago and decided to go home. i don't think it was necessarily their fault. unless they bid too low. it was a case of the logging company getting a really good deal on the trees being planted. they were getting really good quality but we weren't getting paid for it. it didn't feel properly organized either. they asked me back for 2 years following that contract which was nice but... i never went.

RedBaron · Post by **RedBaron** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:29 am

Yah with out Holberg I dont think they are going to be able to draw as many vets into there interior season. I know they normally plant around Kamloops. Garth is a great guy and im sure he will create a very respectable company.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:38 am

I was browsing your website recently and noticed that your information on Coast Range Contracting is out of date. In October of 2005, Coast Range became a “BC only” company. I.e. we only operate in BC. Myself, and my partner, David Newton, purchased Coast Range from the Outland Group and we no longer have any ties to the old Coast Range, Alberta or Ontario. We are now a small, independent, BC-owned company. I run the operations from our yard in Salmon Arm and Dave takes care of the administration in North Vancouver. We are still active on the island in September, February & March, but we are very selective of which jobs we will take on. We have a solid spring season in the Southern Interior (Salmon Arm, Kamloops and Clearwater).

Our website is http://www.coastrange.ca

Our new mailing address is:

Coast Range Contracting
201-829 West 15th Street
North Vancouver, BC
V7P 1M5

Sincerely,

Garth Hadley

vacationer · Post by **vacationer** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:49 am

In fact, Coast Range is still planting on the coast in the Comox Valley/Strathcona area -- they stay at Pacific Playgrounds. And they still pay significantly lower prices than other companies.

barnbill · Post by **barnbill** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:35 am

I planted for Coast Range in the Bowron Valley (PG Area) back in the 1990's B4 they got huge. Prices were OK then but and this is a big but , overcounting seemed to be an accepted practice. And this is probably gonna hurt someone somewhere but the overall camp super on that job and others I worked on with CR now runs a company called "Rainforest" on the coast and he always used to say that there was no way to catch the overcounters.
That I know is bullshit. It is simple to catch. Throw plots. Plot the area. Estimate the trees. Compare to the total. If it does not match then count. I've done it many times in the years after and always caught the overcounters and stashers.
Can't say if the "new" CR is the same.

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:19 am

what? rainforest is owned by coast range? is it recent? a few years ago i heard from a good friend that rainforest was the best coastal company she had worked for, and she's worked for many.

barnbill · Post by **barnbill** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:53 am

krahn wrote:what? rainforest is owned by coast range? is it recent? a few years ago i heard from a good friend that rainforest was the best coastal company she had worked for, and she's worked for many.

No "rainforest" is not owned by coast range
The guy that runs that show is a former coast range supervisor though
and I also have heard good things about "rainforest"

krahn · Post by **krahn** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:48 am

ah thanks, my bad. the best two coastal companies i've heard of from word of mouth are rainforest and this dude in the charlottes. i'm sure there's lots of good small contracts though.

Tooz · Post by **Tooz** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:09 pm

Can anyone provide more recent info on how things are with Coast Range?

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:01 pm

I just did a brushing contract for Coast Range
The prices were mostly shit for the land we were working.
The supervisor/crewboss was a kinda cocky unorganized lack-of-communication leader, said he brushed once and hated it, so for sure he didn't have his full mind into it either. though skimikin nursery camp was pretty sweet for having electricity, nice showers and internet access.
From what I've heard from their planters, the tree-prices are fair enough. But not more. There's good people there. Overall I don't think it's that bad of a place to be, and they've got coastal work and summer trees..
pay was not exactly every 2 weeks, sometimes shorter sometimes longer. Never had details of hectars we had brushed and different block prices on payrolls.
some 14-15 cents coastal work coming up.... pretty straight forward work i was told...

whitepickup · Post by **whitepickup** » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:53 am

Dogmusher wrote: some 14-15 cents coastal work coming up.... pretty straight forward work i was told...

It better be really straight forward at those prices!!!!

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:13 pm

whitepickup wrote:
Dogmusher wrote: some 14-15 cents coastal work coming up.... pretty straight forward work i was told...
It better be really straight forward at those prices!!!!

Yep - won't be there to see it

eisan · Post by **eisan** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:12 pm

Retracting.

eisan · Post by **eisan** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:28 pm

Dogmusher wrote:pay was not exactly every 2 weeks, sometimes shorter sometimes longer. Never had details of hectars we had brushed and different block prices on payrolls.

I've never had a problem with my pay, it's every second Thursday at midnight, it's likely that your bank is the reason your pay was sporadic.
I normally had info about my pieces before I was done, sometimes before I'd started. In fact there was a folder in camp with all the deets in it.
Different prices on payroll I wouldn't complain about, that was us getting day rated for really slow ground, and price jacks on other blocks. Not once did I see the price of my land go down.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:36 am

it's likely that your bank is the reason your pay was sporadic.

Yeah, that's an issue that relates to the specific financial institution an employee banks with. Folklore uses the same system, and the pay occasionally hits some planters' accounts a day or two later than others. In general, it shouldn't be a problem if you bank with the Big Five.

The_Bearslayer · Post by **The_Bearslayer** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:13 pm

I'll be on the coast, I plan on making huge money.
What will you be doing in March?

Not to stir shit up, but I've planted out of the same resorts as Coast Range on the island frequently, and their prices were consistently about 15 percent lower than ours. Kind of an Osprey-lite scene but with nicer trucks.

Our planter: "How long are you guys here?"

Coast Range planter: "Just a few more days, then we have a two-week break."

Our planter: "I thought working for Coast Range was what you did when you had a two-week break."

Things seem to be all over the board in the interior, but you guys can't seem to hang with the smaller companies on the coast.

eisan · Post by **eisan** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:11 am

Cancel.

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:30 am

When you say downsize, how big is Coast Range now, roughly? I haven't heard a lot about them in the last four years or so, when they seemed to be working all over the place. What ever happened to their partnerships with Natural Borders, and what appeared to be a less formal working arrangement with Outland and New Forest?

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:28 pm

Just curious eisan, what can a fast planter expect to average at CR. And how many days should they expect to get?

eisan · Post by **eisan** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:23 pm

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:29 pm

I don't know how much the average planter makes here, but I know I get pouty if I make less than $300 a day planting.

I hope you don't get pouty to often. Several years back I made less then 3 bills and that same night there was a fire at the mill we were working for.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 pm

With the permission of Scooter I just copied updated information from this thread to the Treeplanter’s Database found at http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/ to make it easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against one another, in the hopes that they will treat and pay their planters better.

fluffer · Post by **fluffer** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:41 pm

Contracts for Camp #1

2 crews (11-12 planters + foreman) and 2 six pacs

Interfor-Nakusp 500,000 trees / 16-17.5 cents for burn & stumped ground

BCTS Merritt 1,866,000 trees / 13-15 cents for no prep ground, 11 cents for majority of prep, some nice 10 cent trenches, 16-19 cents for fill. (21 % prep, 75 % no prep, 4% fill)

InterFor-Nakusp is lower elevation ground and may be available to plant in mid-April depending on spring weather conditions. If we are able to start in April, Island planters will have priority for this work and we will utilize other available planters that can move to their May camps in early May.

BCTS Merritt was rebid to allow for more flexible pricing on the tougher ground. The camp will start in Princeton and move to a Pennask/Shrimpton area bush camp for the remainder of the season. There will be some satellite fill missions.

Contracts for Camp # 2

3 crews (11-12~ planters) + 3 six-pacs

BCTS Kamloops 2,200,000 trees / 10-11 cents for prep ground (lots of very nice trenches), 14 cents for no prep ground (only 80,000 no prep ground scheduled for this contract).

There are two BCTS Kamloops contracts that we will be working on simultaneously (Tony Nordee & John Hopper). Weather depending, this project will start the first week of May. Bush Camp will be at Paska Lake (like the last two years) and blocks are in similar areas to last year. These two projects have a June 10th deadline. Once these 2.2 million trees are completed, the plan at the moment is as follows:

One Crew to Camp #1

One or two of the six-packs to Camp #3

Two crews and remaining 6-pack(s) to continue working out of Paska Lake on BCTS Merritt blocks that are South of Logan Lake.

(Details of this June movement will develop depending on weather, production rates in the three camps and unforeseen circumstances that may appear).

Camp # 3 Contracts

3 crews (11-12~ planters)

Fedco—Sorrento 371,000 trees / 15 cent trees in recent burn (we planted this same ground in 2009 and then it burnt, and we are planting it again).

BCTS Vernon North Zone 836,000 trees / 14-16 cents for no prep ground, 17-18 cents for fill, 13-16 cents for burn ground. (78% no prep, 13% burn, 9% fill)

Tolko-Kelowna 650,000 trees / 10-11 cents for trenches, 13-14 cents for dragged ground, 13-14 cents for no prep ground, 14-15 cents for rough bunch ground. (23% trenches, 36% dragged ground, 30% no prep ground, 11% rough bunch)

This Camp will begin in early May at the Jewel Bay cabins in Sorrento with daily tree pick-up at Sorrento Nursery and Fedco blocks about 30 minutes away on Black Mountain (Turtle Valley). BCTS Vernon has blocks that will be completed from the Jewel Bay cabins utilizing a reefer. The camp will move South to Mission Park Inn in Kelowna for BCTS and Tolko blocks North and South of Kelowna with daily pick-up at Hawkeye in Kelowna.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:01 pm

I now see one of the reasons why Folklore didn't win any work in Merritt, where camp 1 is working. That BCTS Merritt is actually a pair of jobs. There was one really nice easy fill block there that I thought would be worth about 15 cents to the planter, but the other fill work I guessed at 24-28 cents to the planter.

It's nice to see companies giving detailed information to their planters. +1 for that. I used to hate being left in the dark when I was a planter.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:32 pm

As for the Nakusp work they got, those price are significantly lower than the norm for the area. Also spoke to the Forester there who said they were "significantly" lower than he though the work was worth. Accountants made the call.
Also they are low balling away on the coast, just as other contractors are starting to drive prices up. Above Coast Range states: we are very selective about coastal work

I think that means we can't bid most places because our bridges are burned...But Timberwest will still take all comers ! 15 cent trees on the island are just wrong.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:11 am

the Nakusp job is also not all burns and stumped ground. this accounts for only half of the work, and might be worth 16-17, but about haf was unprepped ground. Pennask and shrimpton areas in Merrit have been my stomping ground for years now, and those prices are just silly.

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:52 am

13-15 cents for screefing, at least it's not 30 by 30, but there will be some nasty grass mat. Prices at other companies working in the area, who have more respect for their employees, range from 17 to 20 cents and these aren't cream shows. It looks like the "good" money will probably be on the 10 cent trenches. Consider yourselves warned prospective CR planters, there will be some serious suffering at these prices.

Coaster · Post by **Coaster** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:42 am

Pretty amazing that Coastrange shares their season schedule like that! Fluffer must be a puffer to think that putting those kind of prices out here would serve any other purpose than to arouse general scorn. I have worked Nakusp on many occasions and 20 cents for no prep is much more like it. I've also planted Merritt and screefing in the mid teens is nasty. I seem to remember some dialogue here regarding Evergreen being underbid there last year and realizing that they'd have to pay at least 18-20 for screefing. I guess Coastrange wasn't reading that thread. Overall just add about 3 cents to the listed planter prices and you'd have a good season.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:51 pm

Pretty amazing that Coastrange shares their season schedule like that!

Yeah, for all my frustration with some of the bids that I was seeing CR put in this fall, I have to give them props for sending that info to their planters. Of course, there is the concern that it will be shared on the internet and others will see it, but that's all par for the course. Planters want to know what is going on with the contracts that they'll be working on, and an attitude of "that info is on a need-to-know basis, and you don't need to know" is detrimental for everyone. Sharing detailed information like that shows some respect for employees, so I at least have to give them a thumbs-up on that front.

fluffer · Post by **fluffer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:48 am

Scooter wrote:
Sharing detailed information like that shows some respect for employees, so I at least have to give them a thumbs-up on that front.

Based on only a handful of times I've seen the owner or been on the receiving end of his communications it does appear that he makes an effort to keep planters informed. He comes across as a solid person to work for.

I got stuck working the Merritt/Princeton contract/area this last Summer. It was my first Summer planting in B.C. and I made a horrible error in not having a backup plan. I only went out there because I was told we'd be planting trenches - the Kamloops contract - and then lured on by being told that prepped ground would be forthcoming. In the end, (38 days~) I did the equivalent of less than 2 full days on prepped ground. Prices ended up being about 60% 12c and 40% 13c for the unprepped stuff. Our crew got stuck in a total mess just outside Princeton, in the area just down the road from the Copper Mountain mine, for 7 straight days. It was a huge hillside, super steep, covered with brush, wet and slippery with touches of frost and snow for part of it. We got 14c for that block after much complaining, and after the other crews came in for a day and planted nearly all the decent stuff.

Anyways, from the perspective of a rookie at the bottom of the totem pole trying to adjust to camp life, etc. the biggest influence, on me at least, was the mindf*** happening from the top down. The Merritt camp supervisor was the quirky uncommunicative one referenced several times in this thread... and the announced supervisor for the camp again in 2012 (I cut out all company names from the outline I posted). It didn't matter the situation, how bad the land was or that a few times we came home late to hardly any food - everything was peachy! The land was good! There was no thick brush cover followed by huge rot. It was either an oscar winning performance by Brian (who also posted on the 2011 bid thread (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65035&start=74) or a demonstration of extreme cognitive dissonance when he came to the steep slash covered hillside and told the planter next to me, 'there's no brush'.

After the first pay I noted the discrepencies between the prices advertised pre-season on the company website versus what we were getting. They knocked off .5c on everything, and advertised a 25$ flat camp fee (tax incl.) but charged the tax. I responded with an email to the office person who sent out the reports that they ought to fix the website to the correct prices, as those are the only reference planters had before getting to camp. Of course the tax incl. was then justified by the camp supervisor in an, 'aha, gotcha, you signed the generic contract that allowed CR to charge you up to that amount!' manner. Then in a camp meeting, in his passive aggressive way, told the people who mentioned those matters to 'stop whining' (I never heard of anyone else noticing this).

The planters and crew chiefs were all great, without exception, and the cooking was absolutely amazing. But the lack of reality from the camp supervisor, with the crew chiefs having to tow his line, was just messed up. The entire crew, without exception, is ditching CR to work at another company this season, to demonstrate how cohesive the people were and how dissatisfied they were.

Long story short - CR seemed generally solid. My experience would dictate to assume mostly the lower price of the price ranges. If you end up working in Camp #1 (Merritt) make sure bring lots of beer/weed to deaden your senses, or ask to be transfered. Good organization. Good people. If you're willing to give up $ for stability this is probably a good place for you.

b-dawg · Post by **b-dawg** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:47 pm

Congrats Coast Range! You've left an unfathomable amount of Worker's Wages on the bidding table, and taken vast amounts of well-paying jobs away from Locals/Regulars who've done a better job for a better price for years. Way to go!!!

Hopefully you'll be successful in attracting a solid, veteran work-force to plant your trees for 5-10 cents less/tree (to the planter!) than it should be or could be done for.

The best part is that the biggest price-chop is in Merritt on the non-prep Screefing part of the contract. You'll find that NOBODY gets injured (short-term OR long-term) when asked to Screef all day, and that you probably could've gotten away with lowering the amount of the bid-money that goes to the Labour.
Just ask the Evergreen crew that worked that low-balled shit last year...... Screefing is easy, and very low-impact---great for Mind, Soul, and Body.
It's not real technical, so fly-at-it. Big Ups to the Management here--- we're really starting to see just how much of the Bid-dollars can be transferred from the Labour on up to the Administration.

Should be a great experience. Wish I could get in on that, but I'm sure the waiting-list is probably a mile-long. And, damn, I guess it's probably only folks with 15-plus years experience who'll get the first dibbs on this one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

F*@*#!!!!!! Time to 'Occupy Silviculture'??

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:11 pm

with a something of a labour shortage comming up, the ony peope who shoud end up working for coast Range are the ones that didn't try hard enough to find a job somewhere else. remember, friends don't let friends plant for Coast Range.

Gingerplanter · Post by **Gingerplanter** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:51 pm

Just like everyone on this website I am sick and tired of companies like CR ruining wages in this industry. I know it probably won't help but the owner of CR has his email on their site and I wrote him a message personally asking him what his response was to his company's actions. It probably won't do shit all but it made me feel better. If anyone else wants to feel better here is his email.
Ghadley@coastrange.ca

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:14 pm

Is that Garth Hadley? I assume it is. I didn't realize that he was the owner. I met him this fall, just briefly.

Gingerplanter · Post by **Gingerplanter** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:52 pm

Yes it is Garth Hadley. And he is listed as the owner/director on the CR website.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:09 pm

and advertised a 25$ flat camp fee (tax incl.) but charged the tax.

Fluffer, are you sure about this? I don't know why this didn't catch my attention earlier. It is illegal in BC to charge more than $25.00 per day in camp costs, and that is an all-inclusive rate. For example, some companies charge $25.00 (including tax, so it's really something like $22.12 plus HST, I think) in BC, but in Alberta charges $25.00 or slightly higher amounts per day PLUS tax on top.

If Coast Range has charged GST or HST on top of $25.00 for camp costs, they would be obligated to return this money to the planters. So even if they went with GST at 5% instead of HST at 13% (or whatever the rates are in BC right now, I can't remember), that would be a minimum of $1.25 per day. In a 60 day season, that's about $75.00 per person that the company should have to pay back. Labour laws do not allow an employee to "sign away" these regulations - such a contract would be void.

I can't imagine that the accountants at Coast Range would make such a short-sighted and blatant error. To fix it, Coast Range would have to mail out a couple thousand dollars total for all employees. Why go to the effort of trying to bend the rules to save a couple thousand dollars for such an obvious and easily-caught payroll cheat? Are you positive that they charged the tax on top? The Ministry of Labour would probably wag their fingers at the company and tell them to reimburse everyone.

fluffer · Post by **fluffer** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:48 am

Well I fired off a question to the ministry of labour. I'll get on the phone tomorrow and ask.

Of note as well is that CR put a blanket 9 hours of work a day on all the reports. We left camp at 7am and generally got back around 6-630pm (on average 2 hours driving/day). That's 2 hours a day not accounted for. Looking at the labour laws, about min wage (esp 8-12 hrs being 1.5x) that is significant. The rookies were not given min wage top ups. The rookies planted probably only 600-900 trees on 12c ground for the first half of the season (someone mentioned before the stuff around Merritt was tough/slow).

I'll see what they say when I phone. It might be worth contacting some people.

Of note is that on several reports there were tree pricing issues, especially on mixed land (trenches/raw). There were three times I found errors in the company's favour with incorrect pricing. One of those was after they revised to correct for one error. When I got the revised summaries they had changed a previously correctly priced piece (13c) to an incorrect price (10c). I caught it, of course and let them know, as 180 bucks when you're not making that much is significant. Of the CC email I received it seemed to indicate they had priced the whole crew at 10c for that piece. I have to wonder if they changed it. Perhaps another reason to check.

But what bothered me the most was that it was 3 months after I finished planting before they issued that pay for the error they placed while correcting another error. They waited until bonuses for management were determined before doing that final round of payouts for the Spring season. That seemed odd they would wait so long.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:25 pm

I contacted our accountant at Folklore today, with respect to trying to clarify the HST issue with camp costs. This is what she wrote back:

Hi Scooter:
You are right. We have checked into that and we had a person from Labour Standards out in the field one year (I think 2006) - it was not an audit but she did call me and give me some information. She told me that $25 is inclusive of the GST/HST in BC, so we have to back out the tax and charge only a total of $25. In Alberta there is no restriction, so we charge the AB GST on top of the $27.00.
Hope that makes sense.

I've sent a note to the WSCA about this question. They might find that it's worthwhile to look into this on behalf of all contractors, and disseminate the information, so everyone in the industry is clear about how to treat the issue correctly. I am almost certain that Coast Range wouldn't be trying to do this improperly on purpose. It's just a confusing issue that might be treated incorrectly at a lot of different companies.

MiddleAgeMayhem · Post by **MiddleAgeMayhem** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:01 pm

Don't work for Coast Range. If you do, expect to get screwed, somehow. I've been in this industry many years, and I've known many people who've worked for them. Nothing good has been said. I hope Coast Range, Osprey, and all other shitball companies would just fall off the edge of the world.

Just my opinion, of course.

Coaster · Post by **Coaster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:58 pm

Scooter, you are refreshingly naive when it comes to contractors. I suppose it comes from working for good ones which I assume Folklore is, or at least honest ones anyway. Companies like Coastrange have no issues with knickle and diming planters. $10 here, $75 there, it's like the rich old guy who always uses his tea bag twice. It may seem ridiculous but he sees that as how he got rich in the first place. Coastrange gyps planters out of EI hours that they deserve (travel time is insurable) because they know that if they were to get audited by LRB, they'd have to ante up lots of small amounts to top up all of those days when the rookies didn't make minimum wage. This is a double whammy for the planters. They get rooked out of wages and lose EI hours. This is a coldly calculated evil business practice and no surprise to those of us who've watched Coastrange rip off planters for decades.

Just check out their ad for workers in the Kamloops area. Magically those low bid spring contracts they have there are now good prices and will last into early July. Everyone knows spring planting around Kamloops ends by June 15th or at the latest June 21st. Just another small lie, but who's counting?

Tnalp · Post by **Tnalp** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:59 pm

Hi Scooter. thanks for locking that Osprey / Haida Gwaii thread!

I was getting ornery... yup.. mighty riled up!

Anyway, what got me in a state of excitability was apparent rhetorical double standards.
Sure don't like it when someone whines about low prices when they are "involved" (quotation marks denote an ancillary quality), perhaps unwittingly, but nonetheless involved in low tendering themselves. Slightly duplicitous would you not agree!

Your Summit low bid 2012 thread with it's loquaciousness perfectly embodied my dissatisfaction in regards to low prices and double talk. Is it not in these same pages that there is multiple mentions of T. Tchida exhorting his peers at the WSCA to raise bids while simultaneously practising the art of downward pricing?

I will elaborate of my assertion that Jones on Haida Gwaii are "a Joke" by inspiring myself from the pointed and direct opinions offered here concerning Osprey and Coast Range. I will also keep in mind that despite Coaster's view that you seem refreshingly naive I have noticed a few occasions were you were quick to associate possible illegal behaviour with specific companies. A+M being an example, thus demonstrating to me that you can be forthright.

That being said, I have many years of first hand experience with The Teal Jones Group on Haida Gwaii and can only say that many of their contractors have had to wait inordinate amounts of time to receive payment for services rendered! They have been threatened with legal action on more than one occasion! This track record should be made public in the same vein as your Summit low bid proclamation, for the benefit of all concerned; Even Osprey!

The services rendered by your site and it's contributors should not be understated.

In summary and to remain germane to this thread, do not work for Coast Range. And Osprey; Good Luck you are going to need it!!

And also... oh yeah I'm getting ornery.. yup... mighty riled up.

Merry F.....ng Xmas

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:00 am

I have often wondered, especially in the past couple years which have been characterized by a negative economic climate, what could happen if a planting contractor were to become insolvent not through their own ineptitude or by factors within their control, but due to a supply-chain insolvency above them.

In other words, what happens to a contractor if a major mill that they were planting for suddenly becomes bankrupt, and the planting contractor doesn't get paid.

I can look at the company I work for (Folklore) and know that we could survive the bankruptcy of a single licensee, and I'd still get paycheques. And there are other notable companies such as Brinkman and some of the other longer established companies that would provide the same level of reassurance.

But there are also a number of companies which I am reasonably confident operate on a wing and a prayer when it comes to financing. I won't bother mentioning names, but these are the companies where sometimes, the "regular two-week paycheques" don't always come out quite on time. If a mill were to go bankrupt for one of these companies, it is possible that the planters might potentially see a loss of wages.

Some days, it feels to me like the whole system is a house of cards. This is another reason why (for planters) it makes sense to work for a company that pays regularly, every two weeks.

Anyway, since it is Christmas, I shouldn't take about depressing subjects like bankruptcies. Maybe I'll go have a rum & egg-nog for Christmas instead.

Merry Christmas to everyone ... especially those of you who are working silviculture jobs in remote camps today, while the rest of the world is drinking your eggnog.