Alberta planting, why bother?

[Slash Monkey]

ok, so i've been a bc planter for my entire planter career. i finished my spring season in the interior just a few weeks ago and i had a great season. probably the best i've ever had. i wanted to get a couple more weeks in so i decided to check out some alberta planting. i heard, through a few friends, of a great contract around the slave lake area, with a company (northern reforestaion) that has a great reputation and has been in the buisness for over 10 years. when i showed up, i tried to stay possitive even when my friends there were telling me that the prices were shcnarb. i didn't really believe them. i mean, how could it be so bad, the ground is entirely flat. that's got to count for something right? well, apparently it doesn't count for much because the ground was the exact type of ground we get in the interior, the only difference is that it's 6 cents less! ya, that's right, they were giving us 12 cents for the same ground, harder actually, that we get in bc. i couldn't believe it. needless to say, i had to work 2 hours longer in a day to make about $100 less that i would in bc. so answer me this people who plant trees out there. what's the point? if alberta's economy is so booming, than why are your tree prices so ridiculously low? i mean, now i see why there are so many rookies out there, that makes sense. but the camp i was in, there was a good chunk of experienced planters. i just don't understand why you would want to work harder and longer for less money. when i was talking to a lot of these "highballers" about the prices in bc and they didn't believe me. nobody did for that matter. i think everybody in that camp thought that all of us bc planters were nuts, just a bunch of complainers. well ya we're complaining, i mean, c'mon. there's just no sense to it all. so anyways, that's my little rant about a horrible experience. i'm glad in a way, so now i will never wonder what it's like and i can warn fellow planters to not even bother. just to note, i'm not trying to bad mouth northern. they were great! good group of people, and cal, the owner was a great guy. i'm just refering to alberta. cause i know there aren't a lot of companies out there better than these guys.
thank you.

[krahn]

i was actually on this contract before i got hurt, took over 2 weeks off and hoping to join them for their last bit, which is probably in saskatchewan. i can see where you're coming from since BC planters don't seem to make as much normally. years ago i planted in northern alberta all the time, but now i had gotten used to BC so when i came back i was making the same money in ten hours as i had in eight hours in the interior.

however as i got used to it once again it picked up, so by the hour it was very similar, about fifty bucks an hour give or take. i know some people were complaining about the land but the ones that got to know the specs well ended up doing quite well from what i saw, maybe not their best contract but i was making good money when i could work (bronchitis, bad back, old age). not that i prefer working ten hour days anyhow.

then again it may have gotten worse after i left. we were getting more than 12 cents for that stuff i was on but you might have even been on a different contract. while i do agree the prices are a bit better in the interior, hardcore alberta planters can definitely make good coin on most of northern's land. plus they have the best food i've ever had in a planting camp, and like you said the boss it a great guy. it's just not for everybody.

[Nate]

If you found Alberta horrible try planting in Ontario for 8 cents a tree in land worse than Alberta, with $9.50 per person food budgets, old school buses and camps that are 80% rookies.

[mwainwright]

why shouldnt you plant in alberta? because unless you work for wildwoods, where they plant two feet apart, you're gonna make more money in fewer hours in BC. plain and simple

[krahn]

well on that contract he was talking about, there was a planter averaging over five bills a day, and a couple of others not that far off. so if you're one of those planters, obviously that's a reason to stay. also, if you're making 300 consistently and learned to plant with no flagging on flat ground, you're probably going to do better in the prairies.

i just finished my season with Northern and the money was fantastic. however on average i personally would make a bit more per hour in BC, so i don't entirely disagree with you guys.

[jono]

...

[mwainwright]

that wasnt slander it was sarcasm. if i were to say "suck my balls poindexter" .... that would be slander

[steve]

BC is the better place to plant, but I did my summer plant over in Alberta this year. The hours were longer and the pay wasn't as good, but the season goes longer there than it does in interior BC so I managed to get a lot more days in there than I would have if I had stayed in BC. So in the end I made more money

it was also nice planting easy sandy land when I was bored and burned out on planting. tough land is such a bitch to plant at that point ....

[kingjames_2nd]

that wasnt slander it was sarcasm. if i were to say "suck my balls poindexter" .... that would be slander

Y'know, I've often wondered about slander. Thanks for clearing it up for all of us.

[vacationer]

I planted in Alberta several years ago when I didn't know much better and had a great time and made what seemed to be great money. I went back this summer for a different company -- let's call them "GNR" -- and was ultimately disappointed. Prices didn't change much with the land: early on the were great, 10.5 cents for the easiest and fastest unscarified land I have ever seen. The days were long and I was in a bit of pain because of it but I decided the money made it worthwhile. Toward the end of that contract the land got steadily worse, and on the next contract the good land lasted about a shift, followed by an endless stretch of punishing 11 hour days on shitty grassmat where it was hard to even break 300. The people were nice but had led a sheltered existence, talking about "BC planting" as if it took place on another planet. I ended up back in BC and marveled at what I had taken for granted -- 7-8 hour days, camps in places other than empty, muddy landings, high prices, low camp costs and better scenery. I will probably never plant in Alberta again.

[captain-ally]

How could anyone complain about 12c / tree? I was making 7.5c in Ontario planting "furrows" that had been growing over for 5 years. We were pulling the tops of trees down, tying a flag to the tip, and letting them go to mark our lines so the planters beside us could see where we were. People were getting lost in the jungle swamp that they called prepped land. We also had to do some refill in this crap - all for 7.5c. I'm planting AB this season, as well as BC interior, because that is where the money is. You haven't been ripped off for your work until you've dragged your ass through tree-itnam.

[Slash Monkey]

How could anyone complain about 12c / tree? I was making 7.5c in Ontario planting "furrows" that had been growing over for 5 years. We were pulling the tops of trees down, tying a flag to the tip, and letting them go to mark our lines so the planters beside us could see where we were. People were getting lost in the jungle swamp that they called prepped land. We also had to do some refill in this crap - all for 7.5c. I'm planting AB this season, as well as BC interior, because that is where the money is. You haven't been ripped off for your work until you've dragged your ass through tree-itnam.

well ya, of course. that's just retarded. i've planted in quebec as well and it's about the same as ontario. a total waste of time.

[LrootSlashwalker]

Compared to northern ontario, planting in B.C is like a summer camp.

It's way easier to fill your pockets with money in B.C., but the savageness of Ontario made me feel way more badass. Plus you get to plant in sphag.....

[Nate]

Compared to northern ontario, planting in B.C is like a summer camp.

It's way easier to fill your pockets with money in B.C., but the savageness of Ontario made me feel way more badass. Plus you get to plant in sphag.....

If you've never planted in Ontario you have no idea what a beautiful, beautiful thing sphagnum moss is.

Think of it this way, if there was a treeplanting Carebear, his Carebear Stare would be sphagnum moss. Not only is it the easiest microsite to plant once you get used to it, it's usually teeming with so many tiny little sapling-sized naturals you don't have to space off that checkers don't even bother to check it because they'd have to pull on a million trees (i.e. you can get away with some pretty crazy density if you're so inclined), and it doubles as a great pillow and TP. It's also really purty.

[Tupperfan]

I defended Ontario before, mostly in regards to planters, not land, actual amount of work needed to make money or money itself, but I can't say I'll miss it, or will I miss Québec's planting scene.

Sphagnum though... That stuff was just awesome. Made shitty, wet, miserable days with hour-long walk-ins wonderful!

[crusty]

I planted trees in Alberta for 9 seasons, and will explain why. Starting my reforestation experience with 2 painful seasons in the brutal exploitation of Ontario rookie camps, had you talked to me back then, there's no way you'd ever have thought that planting would eventually become an 11 year gig and seemingly, my first career. But yes, being the stubborn moron that I am, I decided to go back and spend my springs/summers sweating throughout blocks across Ontario and into Alberta, season after season. My motivation for returning every year was pretty much fueled by an ignorant confidence that believed, "yes, there must be a decent contract out there" So I kept moving around, the way many planters do, searching for the proper mix of money and respect, and It was all pretty bad during the first 4 seasons, but I kept at it since I was stupid that way. My initial reasoning for going planting was simple, and I'm sure many planters share my point of view; I don't like working. So... how can I work the least amount of time and maximize the income? The last 7 seasons I spent planting in northern Alberta have been profitable and during that time I achieved my goal of not having to work more than 3 months to sustain a decent quality of life the rest of the year. Working in northern Alberta has a huge price however. Yes I make a quick cash injection every season, but those high production seasons are tough on your body and especially on your soul. It is very desolate up there, and that can take its toll on your mind after a few months. Spread throughout all of Canada, the function and purpose of small northern towns is to provide basic services, and not much else.... say bye to any kind of culture for a while.... " 2 teen burgers and an onion ring please". Like any other job, the security of almost guaranteed income kept me coming back to northern alberta year after year. The adventures that often accompany tree planting such as traveling to new places and seeing different landscapes, planting various types of ground or trees, meeting groups of new people, and witnessing how different companies operate.... become irrelevant after 7 years working in the same region. For many, part of the planting experience is about these things. but for me, it really just became a job like any other, a routine. I didn't want to complicate my life trying BC planting, although I'm sure I would have been less miserable there, mainly because of the simplicity of having 3 months of solid work and then it's over. I never really enjoyed planting to be honest, but it was always easier to justify working 3 months instead of 12, no matter how miserable those months were. Now that I'm getting older, dealing with the harsh living and working conditions of ultra remote areas is getting harder every season. Planting 4000-5000 trees in 35 degree weather while bombarded my black-flies, mosquitoes, horseflies, wasps,,etc...often at the same time, might not be for everyone. And now, looking back on past seasons, I can't even believe I was ever able to handle the exhaustion of sweating profusely all day long in the baking sun. Never a hardcore pounder, I was satisfied with working hard, but could never do what many of my coworkers would do daily. ex: No breaks, eating while baggin up, running out of your piece to get more trees...etc.... However, throughout all those years, I made a good enough living to afford a lifestyle that I think would be impossible working a 9-5 job - traveling, art projects, visiting family, enjoying time with friends. Basically, what I think is priceless, is having the time to get into things with a devoted commitment, no matter what your interests may be. "Planting in Alberta, why bother" should be "planting, why bother". It doesn't matter where you plant in the country, we are all looking for a decent contract with no headaches. If you are lucky enough to find one early on, and stick with it until that companies' golden years are over, I think you can say you've had a successful planting career. Now that retirement is close, the problem I face is "how will I ever find a substitute for the indescribable high that comes from completing yet another long and arduous season, and being released back into your world to resume your life after months of northern imprisonment. The lows are Low, but the highs are High.

[jdtesluk]

Now that retirement is close, the problem I face is "how will I ever find a substitute for the indescribable high that comes from completing yet another long and arduous season, and being released back into your world to resume your life after months of northern imprisonment.

Go rob a bank

Jes' kidding. Great summary of your experiences. Probably speaks to a lot of people with similar bonds to the job. Best luck with your next venture.

[Captain Slashpile]

Man, crusty, as an 8 year vet, all I have to say is you hit every nail on the head. what do we do when its time to stop? Ive got a couple more years left in me.

[TheHamsterizer]

Good post, and I agree with most of what you said except-

Working in northern Alberta has a huge price however. Yes I make a quick cash injection every season, but those high production seasons are tough on your body and especially on your soul. It is very desolate up there, and that can take its toll on your mind after a few months. Spread throughout all of Canada, the function and purpose of small northern towns is to provide basic services, and not much else.... say bye to any kind of culture for a while.... " 2 teen burgers and an onion ring please".

Did you ever actually try to seek out any culture in a small northern town? Some people live in these places their whole lives, and culture exists anywhere people live. It might not be very exciting, but to say that briefly staying in one of these towns is 'tough on your soul' is elitist and not fair to people who are trying to build a community in such an isolated area. Let me ask you this- What did you personally contribute to the community or culture of the town you were working in while you were there? I bet it isn't much(understandably), and that's the problem right there. We all go to these towns, stay a few months, and leave saying "well, that place was a shit hole", and then the loggers and rig workers show up, stay a few months and leave saying the same thing. We like to laugh at these towns and how crappy they are, but the ironic thing is that we(seasonal workers) are the reason that these places are like that.

[Zab]

no culture in these areas..quite the sweeping statement.

[krahn]

for me i mostly agree with the no-culture thing, although it's of course an opinion, as in i'm missing out on all my favorite bands and festivals, however... being out in the bush so long, every little harvest festival or rodeo or other events put on by the culture-hungry people growing up in small towns, those can be a blast. it might just be that my expectations are pretty low in that regard, starved for that sorta thing. so i've had some good times in these towns. actually some of the funnest times i've had involved working at a northern alberta feedlot and hanging out with real-life cowboys and cowgirls, people who actually round up cattle for a living. they listened to all kinds of interesting music (the younger crowd at least) and threw toga parties and weren't nearly as cliche as i find with people who wear cowboy hats and don't actually ride horses every day.

it's more the other industries working out of these towns that you meet in the bars that i'm not so fond of. of course there's all sorts of people stuck at any job, but much too often they enjoy the WWE and jerry springer and are wishing the town had a strip joint. that's fine for them, but for me, i really miss urban centers by the end of summer.

not a bad point about delving deeper into these communities though. kind of tough when you only go to town to do laundry, and camp nights off are so much fun.

[Tupperfan]

Good post, and I agree with most of what you said except-

Did you ever actually try to seek out any culture in a small northern town? Some people live in these places their whole lives, and culture exists anywhere people live. It might not be very exciting, but to say that briefly staying in one of these towns is 'tough on your soul' is elitist and not fair to people who are trying to build a community in such an isolated area. Let me ask you this- What did you personally contribute to the community or culture of the town you were working in while you were there? I bet it isn't much(understandably), and that's the problem right there. We all go to these towns, stay a few months, and leave saying "well, that place was a shit hole", and then the loggers and rig workers show up, stay a few months and leave saying the same thing. We like to laugh at these towns and how crappy they are, but the ironic thing is that we(seasonal workers) are the reason that these places are like that.

I completely agree with you. A small, isolated town doesn't mean a lifeless place. Yes, if you are used to a major urban center, the options are obviously more limited due to lack of funds, resources, influence, time and people. How many motivated people do you need to organize an event , people with time and will? You'll have to look around, even in cities.

There's many exemples of little places all around this country with pride that made something out of their little place. Yet, a lot of us would disregard the place as boring quite quickly.

You said the other poster's statement was elitist. I agree, but then, it seems to come with the "treeplanter psyché"... Even among planters; where you planted, how many seasons, the money you made, the most trees you planted, for whom...everything is a hardcore badge of honour worn proudly in the face of those guys not made for it. Guess its comes with the competivity...

[duderancher]

I've planted in Ontario, Alberta and BC. There are bad contracts in all regions and good ones in all regions (well not Wash -hah).

When I plant in Alberta (usually in July and rare these days) I stop planting 18 cent trees and plant 12 cents trees. It's that simple. You have to slut em in basically. AB quality is not BC quality. In general that is.

PS I goto northern Alberta for the chance to catch Arctic Grayling in the mountain streams. Nice change from the cutties and rainbows in the Koots.

[seanjackins]

Why work in Alberta?

I was planting a pretty schnarby piece (cut out a piece of sod, about a square foot, plant a tree, then find it an obstacle to go on the SW side) for the Spray Lakes contract (pretty close to calgary), when a bunch of cowbows on horses drove a heard of cattle through my piece.

The destruction those filthy animals wrought on my already soggy shit hole was pretty impressive.

I chatted with one of the cowboy's for a few minutes, nice guy, then his horse took a crap all over my cache.

To live life and have a memory like this to reflect on is why you should plant in Alberta.

[Scooter]

I put 94 kilometers on the quad that day, my all-time record. Especially considering that I was only able to bring two loads of trees to the block while doing so. I spent the entire second half of the day spinning up a trail covered with cattle shit, which was constantly flying up in the air and landing on my body and in my eyes and mouth in a torrential downpour. When someone says to me, "eat shit," I can literally say, "already tried it, didn't like it."

That was one of the most memorable days of my career. Not necessarily the most fun, but hell, watching the cattle drive and the cowboys almost made it worthwhile.

[Crystal Metz]

Wainwrights right, he just is. I've been planting for 9 years. I spent four in AB with ngr and Northern. Long days low prices and bad bugs. I make more money in less time in BC, plus I stay in cabins, apartments, and motels. Ive never planted Ontario but I know a guy that put in like 6k there and didnt even make five hundred bucks. Dont get me wrong Ive still got alot of friends that plant in AB. These companies push loyalty, get em when they're young and then they -the planters-never go work anywhere else. It is nice to have a cook, but I cooked for gnr so I'm fairly capable of cooking for myself.

As people get more experience in they tend to gravitate west because the season starts earlier, the days are shorter and the prices are better. Unless they're lucky enough to start in BC.

Of course everybody will do whatever they want, these are only opinions