Shovel Handles

[rockum_sockum]

Ergo handles, yay or nay? Why? And which one?

[jono]

...

[Tupperfan]

Nay, but it's probably because I am one of those 50 ambidextrous (read decent with both hands, not great with either or...) planters.

Although my current shovel is an old bushpro with an ergo handle as I lost my favourite planting shovel and don't use my shovel much while delivering trees (Only as a box transport sytem while humping trees in a backpiece or for various diggings around trucks/quads/camp...)

[Seabass]

This will be my 5th season using a staff and I'm glad that I made the switch after 1 season of using the D handle, though I must admit that staffs aren't for everyone.

[rockum_sockum]

I have heard good things about staffs as well, I just learned with a d, so I want to stay consistent. I'm just thinking about putting an ergo handle on my shovel though, and wondering if it is really worth it, or just make me look cooler ;p heh

[Mnky]

Wife and I both say YAY for ergo...we have the workwizer shovel with the white ergo handle....will never go to D handle....our preference

[buyerp]

This will be my 5th season using a staff and I'm glad that I made the switch after 1 season of using the D handle, though I must admit that staffs aren't for everyone.

Can you elaborate your experience about the staff and why it wouldn't work for everyone? I was reading scooter's rookie guide and it says that staff are less problematic for your joints. This will be my first year planting and i am curious about which one would people recommend. I am 5'4 and weigh around 130lb. (164cm, 57kg)

[Seabass]

This will be my 5th season using a staff and I'm glad that I made the switch after 1 season of using the D handle, though I must admit that staffs aren't for everyone.

Can you elaborate your experience about the staff and why it wouldn't work for everyone? I was reading scooter's rookie guide and it says that staff are less problematic for your joints. This will be my first year planting and i am curious about which one would people recommend. I am 5'4 and weigh around 130lb. (164cm, 57kg)

As a first year planter it would be easy for you to use either a staff or a D handle. There are different styles to using both, so it would be tougher to make the switch after a season or two of planting with one. I switched to the staff after a year and a half of using the D handle because of tendonitis and it took a few days to get used to the new style, weight, etc. The staff generally weighs a significant amount more than the majority of D handles unless it is really cut down. With the D handle a lot of planters use what is called a "C cut" to make their holes. This involves the shovel going in then being twisted in a C motion to open the hole. With the staff, I use what is called the "box cut" and as when my blade is in the ground I rock it back and forth quickly, thus opening up a slightly larger, box shaped hole. Some planters find the staff awkward or find that they can not move as quickly with it. Personally, this is my 6th season and my 5th with the staff, so for me it would be a huge change to switch back to a D handle (not that I'd consider it anyway). It also has some good uses in real kifey land as I can use it to create leverage to get myself over larger obstacles, and I've developed my technique so that the blade is entering the ground where I want my next tree to be before I actually reach that spot as I use the length of the staff to my advantage and use a flicking motion to have the blade far enough ahead of me that it saves a slight amount of time in the planting motion. The length of the staff is also good for quickly checking crappy ground for any suitable microsites as it covers a larger radius. I would never switch from the staff just as other vets wouldn't switch from their D handles. It's all personal preference in the end and what you are used to using. Like I said at the start, as a rookie you shouldn't have much problem learning either shovel/style (though it does help to have a crewboss or vet who knows how to plant with whatever shovel you choose as they will be better equipped to train you and help refine your technique.)

[TheHamsterizer]

Nay, but it's probably because I am one of those 50 ambidextrous (read decent with both hands, not great with either or...) planters.

The Ergo handle can be used with either hand... Just twist the handle...

[skibum_]

my blade is in the ground I rock it back and forth quickly, thus opening up a slightly larger, box shaped hole.

This creates air pockets at the base of the root system which will end up in the tree dying. I plant with a D-handle, but from what I gather of staffs, you are supposed to also use a C-cut. I am going to make a custom staff this year I think. I will be crewbossing and won't have much time to plant, but it will be a neat test. I want to have the entire length of the shovel be 40IN. Maybe less. Then I will use hockey tape to wrape the the end of the shaft like I would a hockey stick. Maybe an extra large pommel similar to a goalie stick. I think this would provide the grip needed to get the power of a D-handle while maintaining the arm in a position better for tendonitis. You would also choke up on the shaft (wow) when you hit faster land. I have heard of desings liek this, but never seen one or tried one. Should be fun.

[Seabass]

I've not had any problems with air pockets yet. I find that making a C cut with the staff is just plain awkward due to the size. And you're right about fast land, my hand tends to be closer to the blade as speed builds. I have definitely never seen anyone wrap hockey tape on their staff, but then again in 5 seasons I have only ever seen 1 other planter using the staff.

[TheHamsterizer]

I've not had any problems with air pockets yet. I find that making a C cut with the staff is just plain awkward due to the size. And you're right about fast land, my hand tends to be closer to the blade as speed builds. I have definitely never seen anyone wrap hockey tape on their staff, but then again in 5 seasons I have only ever seen 1 other planter using the staff.

You might have 'hourglass' pockets and not know it... I planted for years with a staff and it's almost impossible to avoid the hourglass with a wedge cut, and C-cutting with the staff SUCKS! You'll trash your wrist. The good news about hourglass pockets is that they occur way down in the hole, sometimes under the tree, and you almost never get busted for them. However, if you see a checker on your piece pushing a little stick into the ground right next to your trees it's heart attack time! You'll have to switch to a D-handle or start back cutting. The shape of the blade makes a difference too, a long skinny blade will give you worse hourglass pockets.

[rockum_sockum]

Yeah I have read quite a bit of positive information about the staff being a bit better ergo wise, I never really got a chance to try it though, I find that the d isn't as bad as some think though, and good technique makes for less pain :]

Has anyone tried the oval d?

[Mnky]

I planted a bit with a D handle after learning on the e-handle. I found that the C cut was harder to do with the D than the ergo.

[jono]

...

[krahn]

Nay, but it's probably because I am one of those 50 ambidextrous (read decent with both hands, not great with either or...) planters.

Although my current shovel is an old bushpro with an ergo handle as I lost my favourite planting shovel and don't use my shovel much while delivering trees (Only as a box transport sytem while humping trees in a backpiece or for various diggings around trucks/quads/camp...)

i'm meeting more and more of you freaks. there were 3 or 4 at northern last season. i almost looking forward to tendinitis one day so i'm forced to learn myself.

[buyerp]

You might have 'hourglass' pockets and not know it... I planted for years with a staff and it's almost impossible to avoid the hourglass with a wedge cut, and C-cutting with the staff SUCKS! You'll trash your wrist. The good news about hourglass pockets is that they occur way down in the hole, sometimes under the tree, and you almost never get busted for them. However, if you see a checker on your piece pushing a little stick into the ground right next to your trees it's heart attack time! You'll have to switch to a D-handle or start back cutting. The shape of the blade makes a difference too, a long skinny blade will give you worse hourglass pockets.

ok, I know i'm a little off topic here. But which handle then would you recommend to a rookie? (d? ergo? staff?)

[LrootSlashwalker]

Pretty much all rookies end up with a D-handle.
I would recommend not waiting 1 month to modify your shovel.
It's pretty embarassing to see people planting with gigantic heavy shovels.

[Tupperfan]

The Ergo handle can be used with either hand... Just twist the handle...

Yeah, well, I did plant for a while with both hands using an ergo that was screwed to the shovel. It wasn't actually too hard to use the handle the other way around. Planted plenty of good trees, but I planted more with a D...

i meeting more and more of you freaks. there were 3 or 4 at northern last season. i almost looking forward to tendinitis one day so i'm forced to learn myself.

Well, I tried out planting with both hands as it was faster than switching or turning my bags and as I'm already ambidextrous in many activities, thanks to learning the skill while playing tee-ball back in my early days...But I can't plant with my third arm, so I guess I'm not THAT much of a freak.

I planted with a friend's staff for a short day prior to day off a few seasons ago. It was not bad, but it felt odd, as it was a different movement. Probably a question of getting used to the staff, my friend was really good with it (he switched due to tendinitis as well) and I've heard great things about it from the staff disciples over the years...

[rockum_sockum]

I can't find it right now, but the BC government has been doing quite a bit of research into safety over the last while, there was a document I found last year that had some statistics to show that a staff seemed more favorable as it reduced the risk of tendinitis. I have heard of people getting tennis elbow from staffs though, I don't know how true it is though. That said, I am planting with a d, and I'm thinking about putting and ergo on it instead, buy yeah...

If you search for 'bc treeplanting pdf', 'bc treepanting stats' 'bc silviculture stats', ect there is information out there. There is also quite a bit of information on things like contracting hierarchy, land spec calculations, and all that fun stuff for people of interest.

[NGooding]

How about oval d-handles? Are they a happy medium between the d-handle and ergo handle for ambidextrous planters? Or are they pointless?

[jdtesluk]

Here's some really good information based on the best research done yet,

sorry, the link is no longer valid, I will repost when I relocate it.

[frequency]

I am curious about the oval d, I know a few people who use them and are dedicated to them. But I don't really see how they help much ergonomically.

[Sebastian]

I personally see no attraction whatsoever to the oval d. That said, the best planter I know uses one, so who am I to argue.
Really, it's all about what you're personally comfortable with. It may very well be just a matter of luck: Plant a few seasons, try a few things out - eventually you ball and you don't get any tendonitis and you'll say it's all thanks to the shovel, when in fact you've just become a good planter.

[SpACEwOOz]

Just wanna had that I'm planting with a OVAL handle for 4 years now and it'S definetly, BY FAR, the best handle. If you twist it really hard, you get a grip that put your rist in the position of «hand-shaking» which is one of the most natural one. Also, you can move your hand on the handle way more than any other grip...

Try it out, it really worth it...

[chronic]

Its all the fricken same. Pick one and learn how to be efficient in your technique. I started with a staff and planted for 8 years with variations in lengths, ect... Went to a D in 9th year and have been planting with a D for 7 more years. And I have been able to keep up with the BEST with either.

if you ever plan on doing coastal ground I recommend learning on the D handle. Much easier to use in heavy slash.

Another thing that is great about the d handle is that you can clip your shovel to the planing bags during transport. I don't know how many staff planters I have seen lose there shovels from falling out of a truck because it is loose.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you ever break or loose your shovel it is always going to be easier to borrow a D handle. Staffs are hard to come across in camps to borrow. I know I always carry 2 D's to work. (loger for flat ground, short for steep) Never brought 2 staffs. And I know i have leant out my spair many times.

Staffs are good for Forman. Gives them something to lean on and walk through the slash with. Been there, done that to.

As to tendonitis. I truly believe that you will either get it or won't. I've planted over 14 years and NEVER had tendonitis. And I do full coastal, interior, coastal (120 plus day season (maybe not anymore with shitty coastal prices)). Although I have several crazy notions about preventing tendo and they have probably helped me avoid it for all these years.

[landhammerer]

love the bushpro Ergo D handle, and I recommend it to any rookie planters

[beeps]

The ergo D is sweet! I was just cutting down my shovel a few minutes ago and paid no attention to the angle that I reattached my ergo d handle. Turns out its got a slight twist, very very slight, does anyone think this will be a problem?

[newb]

not sure if this will help, but this is what i use... Also, i dont really prefer one over the other. For some reason the picture of the two shovels is inverse. oups, sorry for the large files, and apparently i used inches instead of centimeters.

[dirtpenetrator]

I really really like the oval D handle. It gives you the advanatge of ergo-D's but with greater versatility and shock absorbance. You can plant at any angle, or with either hand, and you can let your hand go loose on it more easily. I've tried ergo-D, D, and oval-D and I find that the oval-D is the most ergonomic.