Hello, this might be more of a contractor level question, but many of the planters posting here are well qualified to be working at higher levels than just planting, so I would take opinions from anyone who can plant trees.
I have a specific question leading to a general question. I have noticed a lot of Ford Super-Duty trucks in Scooter's pictures scattered about the site. I run a 2000 F250 myself, with the 7.3L diesel. I have driven two of these same vehicles when I was just running crews for someone else, and I like them. Now that I own one and am learning even more of the maintenance particulars of the engine, I am starting to think I want an Econoline with the same engine for a crew van. (Right now I am stuck with the string-of-cars approach due to lack of capital). Having two of the same engine would simplify things for maintenance and it would be easy to keep a set of some of the spare parts around.
What I have really always wanted though, was a four-wheel drive vehicle for the crew. The Econolines can be converted to 4x4 aftermarket. Does anyone reading this have experience with that?
I was discussing this on a forum for owners of that 7.3 engine. Someone on there mentioned that the heavier body of the Econoline gives it better traction than a pickup. Add in ten planters most times (over a ton of extra weight), and this would go up yet more.
So my general question is ... does a van for the planters really need to be 4x4? I have seen some not-good things with crew vans on unpaved roads over the years though.
And since I started this topic, does anyone up there use these passenger boxes you can put in the bed of a pick-up? They have seats and a few basic windows. A fair number of my competitors use them. For me trying to change back to American labor, I can't see them working out that well. They would be excellent for leaving the pavement to get out to the block, sure. But living out of one, crossing whole states and such, I don't think would help retain planters for very long.
Vehicles
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Scooter
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Re: Vehicles
My initial guess would be that if you're currently able to use a string of cars to get the work done, then your roads probably aren't bad enough that a 2WD van couldn't handle it. Another good thing is that with a van, they tend to be a bit lighter and if you're not in really bad conditions, and the van just gets slightly stuck, seven or eight guys can often push it out. But I'd want to see your roads before I was sure that this was good advice. Vans are used in planting a lot in Eastern Canada, and I believe fairly often in Ontario too. It's been quite a while since my crew has had a van in Western Canada though.
As for the passenger boxes that go onto the bed of a pickup, I think you're referring to the professional ones that are called crummies here? A lot of planters really don't like them. In Western Canada, the planting industry is phasing them out. There's a photo of one here:
As for the passenger boxes that go onto the bed of a pickup, I think you're referring to the professional ones that are called crummies here? A lot of planters really don't like them. In Western Canada, the planting industry is phasing them out. There's a photo of one here:
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Personal Email: jonathan.scooter.clark@gmail.com
Sponsor Tree Planting: www.replant-environmental.ca
(to build community forests, not to be turned into 2x4's and toilet paper)
Re: Vehicles
yes, crummies are scarry to ride in even with a good driver, they are really high and you cant see out very well. most companies are not ussing them anymore. Vans can also be pretty scary as generaly they are not meant for off highway use and tend not to corner very well. I think the econoline conversion is pretty expensive but I could be wrong about this. good luck
Re: Vehicles
the trucks like that I have seen have longer passenger boxes than that one...all the way to the back of the truck. I'm not surprised planters don't like them.
If you don't use those and you don't use vans, what do you use?
so far the cars have worked out OK on the contract I am on now....they have pure rock roads, some of the best timber roads I have ever seen actually, as the point of a Wildlife Refuge is public access. The next big job will be fine too....a big rock equipment deck for parking at a wetland conversion job (1200 acre farm field). But in March I will be driving up to the top of a coal mine. I'm not sure yet if the mine operator will be too thrilled with several extra vehicles coming in each day...they might be hauling coal out. So I might have to rent something on that one actually. Their roads are pretty good too.
but in the long run I will be back on unpaved dirt roads at some point. it is true that a crew can always push a van out of things, in fact tree planting crews I have worked with become quite skilled at freeing stuck vehicles. but when it is actually raining, on certain soil types, 4x4 becomes a safer way to drive on them, in my opinion.
a former business partner would always say, just park it and make the planters walk, because he was cheap and was always afraid of damaging the $1000 used-crap special he would buy. but making planters walk all the time because their vehicle can't get all the way to the block just makes unhappy planters, and that makes poor quality work and that makes trees die and that makes my clients unhappy.
If you don't use those and you don't use vans, what do you use?
so far the cars have worked out OK on the contract I am on now....they have pure rock roads, some of the best timber roads I have ever seen actually, as the point of a Wildlife Refuge is public access. The next big job will be fine too....a big rock equipment deck for parking at a wetland conversion job (1200 acre farm field). But in March I will be driving up to the top of a coal mine. I'm not sure yet if the mine operator will be too thrilled with several extra vehicles coming in each day...they might be hauling coal out. So I might have to rent something on that one actually. Their roads are pretty good too.
but in the long run I will be back on unpaved dirt roads at some point. it is true that a crew can always push a van out of things, in fact tree planting crews I have worked with become quite skilled at freeing stuck vehicles. but when it is actually raining, on certain soil types, 4x4 becomes a safer way to drive on them, in my opinion.
a former business partner would always say, just park it and make the planters walk, because he was cheap and was always afraid of damaging the $1000 used-crap special he would buy. but making planters walk all the time because their vehicle can't get all the way to the block just makes unhappy planters, and that makes poor quality work and that makes trees die and that makes my clients unhappy.
Re: Vehicles
excursionsIf you don't use those and you don't use vans, what do you use?
Re: Vehicles
In B.C. there are lots of regulations and extra safety requirements that make using 12 passneger vans a pain in the patooty. A special class 4 license is required to operate them amd they have to be safety inspected every 6 months. This is for good reason. we've had some pretty horrific crashes and fatalities in the farm worker business. These vans are top heavy and not suited for many industrial roads. Most have had roof racks installed which makes them even more tippy. I recommend that you stay away from them. Vehicles like Chevy Suburbans or Yukons are far better suited to the bush and can be configured to carry up to nine people as well as a roof rack for gear, stretchers etc.
Re: Vehicles
I've thought about the Excursion. Same engine as the truck I drive. But I have to compete with people cramming up to 18 people into a 15 passenger van, and the Excursion carries fewer passengers than the van. Also Americans are bigger people. On no vehicle do I plan on using it to advertised passenger capacity, that will just never happen with a crew living and working on the road, even people good at living out of a backpack still have to put the backpack somewhere.
I have long experiences with the 15 passenger vans and won't run those in the future; they are more dangerous than the standard size vans. A diesel 12-passenger Econoline (very heavy engine) should have a great deal more stability than any of the extra long vans.
I have long experiences with the 15 passenger vans and won't run those in the future; they are more dangerous than the standard size vans. A diesel 12-passenger Econoline (very heavy engine) should have a great deal more stability than any of the extra long vans.
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The_Bearslayer
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Re: Vehicles
If you've been getting to the block in cars, why not continue driving to work in whatever vehicles you can get your hands on? There are a hell of a lot of late-model two wheel drive work trucks for sale whenever the economy is performing poorly.
PS The engine you have is the one to stick with, the next generation of Ford diesels (which I think came in in 2006) tend to be a lot less reliable and more expensive to fix.
PS The engine you have is the one to stick with, the next generation of Ford diesels (which I think came in in 2006) tend to be a lot less reliable and more expensive to fix.
