A&M (Ontario)

landhammerer · Post by **landhammerer** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:42 pm

I also question they're shady advance policy, but I have made dollars off that crook Paul, yes quote it, thousands of dollars and thousands of quality PRT trees went in the ground. Jack Pearson is a hedgehog of a foreman/bus driver.....I too will leave it at that. Lots of good friends and fun adventures.

vet2010 · Post by **vet2010** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:25 pm

I was a rookie last year (for the spring) and here's my opinion in comparison to the second company I worked at for the summer. I lasted the whole season so I'm pretty sure a lot of the people complaining are the ones who didn't make it past the 2-3 week stage.

Pro's: A lot of fun people - booze day was lots of fun... boat races etc
Booze day cup is a great way to get crews competitive and work harder.
Chris Hendsbee was awesome - great communication, motivator.
(Paul - only saw him the last few days; IMO he thought a little too much of himself but as I said it was only for a few days so I could be wrong)
Dinner was the shizzz - freakin awesome
Weekly advances - they were 100/200 but it was fine with me coz i wanted to save as much as possible
Daily Production Board - great way to see where you are and who your competing against
Apart from one block, the land wasnt so bad.
The company gives rookies a chance - I was rejected by all companies coz I had never planted before. For this I will always remain grateful.

Con's: Lower rates. The next company I worked for paid 10 cents /tree. A&M paid 7 for prepared land, 8 for unprepared and had only 1week for 10 cents, and only if you hit the requirements ( was 2500 for rookies and 4000 for vets)
Breakfast was horrible!! apart from tinned food or fruit - oatmeal was almost uneatable and sausages were never cooked. Lunch was always apples, PB & J. My next company provided cheese and meat and leftovers from the previous night although dinner was not as good as A&M
Crew boss: Think all of them were ok except for Jack pearson. He had a bad reputation around camp. Supposedly a good planter (according to him) but very arrogant. Heard from his crew that he was busy getting laid by one of his rookies ON THE BLOCK instead of delivering trees and some vets quit of his crew. Apparently excessively hard on his rookies - none of his rookies planted 60,000 trees in the 2 month planting season.
Payment - we did get paid but it was mid -august by the time it arrived. Personally its fine for me coz I need it for uni and would probably have spent it if it arrived earlier but I see some people needing it within the 2 months.

A&M taught me everything I know and I'm a good planter now(3 K a day is normal). The only reason I'm not going back is because of the rates. 2 cents more makes such a difference in the long run. If you do end up there, just avoid being in Pearsons crew and I think you'll do fine. Peace

sylvie-cool · Post by **sylvie-cool** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:01 pm

vet2010 wrote:Chris Hendsbee was awesome - great communication, motivator.

I was also a rookie last spring and I would have to agree on this..There were a number of accidents that happened last year at camp/days off..and considering that we were in the middle of the forrest, chris ensured that people received the best care possible, and that anytime something happened, everyone in camp was debriefed and knew exactly what was going on.
-I also had problems with getting my deposit back..but I emailed hendsbee and he got back to me the same day and made sure I got my cheque

vet2010 wrote:Daily Production Board - great way to see where you are and who your competing against
Apart from one block, the land wasnt so bad.
The company gives rookies a chance - I was rejected by all companies coz I had never planted before. For this I will always remain grateful.

-As a rookie..if you learn to plant in ass ..you can plant in anything. The A&M Manitouwadge contracts do have some of the roughest land to learn in, but many rookies who lasted the full contract still came out with a decent payoff. Personally, I am not going to bash the company that gave me the opportunity/ skills to make lots of money every summer, whether I continue with a&m or plant elsewhere

vet2010 wrote:Crew boss: Think all of them were ok except for Jack pearson. He had a bad reputation around camp. Supposedly a good planter (according to him) but very arrogant. Heard from his crew that he was busy getting laid by one of his rookies ON THE BLOCK instead of delivering trees and some vets quit of his crew. Apparently excessively hard on his rookies - none of his rookies planted 60,000 trees in the 2 month planting season.

.
Honestly, any company you work for will have its pros and cons..and just like every workplace has it's assholes...you are bound to have one or 2 crew bosses who are total douchebags. I will agree on the topic of Jack Pearson..I believe he has what they call "napoleon syndrome"..and I was unimpressed with how he managed to break 2 ton industrial leaf springs on a bus last season that cost us a full day of planting stuck in camp. And none of his rookie's hit 60,000 because they were too busy repo-ing every other day.
...while jack might be a total prick.. he does his job and follows the rules..so you may not like him, but any questions of integrity, or whether he's doing his job are pretty unfair...plus you can't really rag on a whole company because of one person.
-While I'm still on the topic of crewbosses though...with the exception of J.P, the other 5 crewbosses last season produced excellent planters. And the daily production board was a great motivator..a little competition never hurts anyone..just makes them more motivated
... My crew boss last year, J.C was a first year crew boss and managed to get almost every rookie on our crew consistently planting 2k+ a day. I will be the first to admit that I was a total asshole to him, and even so he helped me out and tried to make me a better planter ...and was pretty compassionate when i had a gigantic meltdown on a 100ft rockcap in a certain block from hell called gulliver in week 2. So yeah I can understand that for some vets maybe it is worth it to go out to alberta or BC, but honestly if you are loyal to A&M, there are lots of possibilities in terms of future staffing jobs, and they always try to offer incentives (ie. en extra 1cent per tree) for people that perform well on blocks. Its true that yes they do underbid, but if you work hard and dont sit under the silvacool fort smoking j's and sleeping all day you'll be making 9 or 10cents a tree too.

On a final note...it's easy to nitpick and bash a company because there were certain things about it that didnt run perfectly..but lets not forget that we're not staying at the 4 seasons..its a freakin tree planting camp..given the limited resources, the dinners were great! in fact I always was able to grab left over mashed potatoes or pasta, etc for lunch the next day...and if you didnt like what they gave you for breakfast you could always ask the cooks and they'd give you something else(within reason)..ie. throw some eggs on bread and make sandwiches to wrap up take on the bus....

And for the record I have friends that have planted with Brinkman and Outland..and from what i've heard they aren't perfect either. Atleast with A&M, you'll have a great time with some awesome people and you'll learn how to man up and plant in any ass land that gets handed to you.

fmcl · Post by **fmcl** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:58 pm

Last season at A&M was pretty smooth (at least at the Manitouwadge camp). A number of vets and a few rookies made upwards of 7500$ last season. The food was alright and the people were great. Compared to Wilderness, A&M had certain strengths and other weaknesses, I cant say anything about Moose Creek. The land wansn't great but alot of us really learned to plant many good trees in shit land...

Enough said

mcabral · Post by **mcabral** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:15 am

I have planted with A&M for three seasons (2007-2009) and I have had a very different experience than many of the people who have posted on here. No company is perfect, and if you are looking for problems, of course you will find some. That being said, I consider A&M a very good company to work for.
I was always paid accurately for what I had planted, and I found the deductions, etc... on my final cheque easy to follow. I think that keeping a daily claim record is a good idea for wherever you plant, as well as storing your bi-weekly statements. There was a few times when the numbers I had in my records did not match up exactly with the numbers on my bi-weekly, and then all I had to do was tell my crew boss and they fixed it. The money is sent in mid-late August, but I was told that this is when to expect it, so that was alright with me. Also, good for saving money to go to school (at least in my case). I always received my T4 with out any problems.
In my time there, I had very rarely run out of trees/land. In the cases where I did run out, it was (for the majority of cases) because we were closing a block. The deliverers work hard and always tried to keep me well supplied with trees. Keep in mind that they are human, though and cannot be in several places at once when something does go wrong e.g. a quad breaking down (which can happen in any company)
The food was great for the most part - dinners are the highlight, and simple lunches or breakfasts can be spiced up by a few key purchases on day off (pop-tarts are great for the bus ride, and energy bars or nature valley for snacks during the day). Breakfast does tend to be a bit monotonous, but it is important to keep in mind that you are out in the bush, and not at a restaurant. That 'food poisoning' incident mentioned above, was actually a viral infection which had nothing to do with the food, but rather the close quarters of a planting camp (I was in the hospital too).
My crew bosses have been amazing, both on and off the block. they were always more than happy to set up in-land caches on extra deep pieces, or set me up with a creamy piece every once in a while. That being said, they also sometimes expected me to take on some of the hairier land that would bog down a rookie, because they knew I could get through it faster. I think its important to remember that you are part of a team. It is a relationship of give and take and in the end, it always worked out for the best.
I have made some lifelong friends through A&M and I am extremely grateful for my time there. I have a million hilarious stories from my experiences there, which I would not trade for anything.
I just wanted to share my perspective of A&M because I disagreed with much of what was said in some of the posts above.
Thanks

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:31 pm

I would not go to say that bad comments on here are necessarly from people that didn't make it. Especially considering that people posting on this site obviously show enough of an interest in planting to waiste couple minutes of their time regularly to read through here. Lots of comments come from people that actually have seen other companies and have seen what a good company can be. BUT everyone has different values and priorities when it comes to work place, and everyone gets its own experience of it.
I notice that almost every positive posts were from Chris Handsbee's camp, which apparently is better.

Is the grass always greener on the other side, no not always, but in this case I have no doubt it is. Maybe I just like aiming higher in everything I do. Some people keep their minimum wage job because they love the people with who they work. Maybe that's how we should all be, exploited but good values? I compare A&M to the minimum wage job of the treeplanting world. If I can get 3000$ more elsewhere, feel more safe and have better food, no doubt I'll move on.. but that doesn't seem to be the main concern for many.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:13 pm

Chris Hendsbee is a good person working for a shit company. Why he's remained there for so long is beyond me.

For the record, I don't believe there are any comments in this thread from people who couldn't cut it. A few of us who have stated our opinions have many years of experience with a few different companies. As for the people who only have experience at A&M, life's peachy when you don't have experience elsewhere, ain't it? I actually found one of the last comments quite laughable... the one from the rookie, sylvie-cool, saying that A&M's Manitouwadge contracts are some of the toughest out there. All I've gotta say slyvie-cool is you don't know what the fuck you're talking about since you don't have the experience of planting elsewhere and nothing to base your opinion on. I've been really biting my tongue on responding to this thread but may respond with a much longer post in the near future addressing some of the "experiences" from "rookies".

trice · Post by **trice** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:46 am

I've been planting with A&M for 3 years now going on my 4th. I've also had the pleasure of planting with Brinkman. Both companies have pro's and cons, shit-heads and wonderful people. The food at Brinkman was.. just amazing, cussing sushi man, and lunch meat, olives, hummus, three types of cheese, soup, great stuff.. I could go on forever, it was like staying at the Hilton, oh yeah we did that too. but you know what it wasn’t A&M. There were some days at brinkman dancing like a drunken naked fool, rocking with my cock out to rage, and I thought to my self " whoa naked lesbians". Anyway I'm going to work my balls off, I'm going to work them right off and wear them around my cussing neck, because I'm planting cussing trees; I'm sure most tree planting company would love to accept ANY EX A&M greener; We know how to plant land. Right carina? I’m sure your wearing Pauls balls around your neck right now; and you know what you probably wouldn’t be as bad ass a tree planter as you are now if you hadn’t popped your cherry at A&M. Maybe I'm wrong? oh yeah on another note. I've worked minimum wage jobs. I’ve always put effort into those jobs, and I can say this: I'm not making cussing minimum wage, even if it was 7.5 cents. Any of the planting job’s I’ve had allows me to make extraordinary amounts of money. Planting isn't a cussing vacation, *although I consider it one* its hard labour. I’m proud of my work and of the planting companies I’ve worked for. I've planted trees from 7 cents a tree all the way to 13.5 in Ontario. You make more money than me? Good for you. At least I’ve got a good attitude, and I’m sure that’ll put a twinkle in any of my future employers eyes.. instead of all this shit flinging. The A&M bashers on this site have been scarred, and I’m sorry, especially you carina, I didn't know you made 8 bucks, that’s kind of funny; in a serious lets get drunk in the off season and then you me and furry can laugh about it, kind of way... at least you didn't get a bill ha! ha! ha! Oh and dogmusher nice analogy; go fuck yourself. Anyway I'm rambling. My point is I have always felt safe at A&M, I have always had enough to eat, and while I'm not a highballer, I do make enough to pay for school; while spending advances to get ridiculously drunk on days off. The People are bringing me back to A&M, this year is going to be great and extraordinary in every possible way imaginable. and if I’m wrong? well.. In my books if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well. so after I do that, I'll get paid for every single cussing tree I've planted *because like the cussing genius I am I kept track of what I plant* and move on to my next Tree Planting adventure; hopefully coastal planting. So I bid you all adieu, I’m going to make like a tree and get the fuck outa of here. I wish everybody in this forum a most excellent planting season.

jayBOT · Post by **jayBOT** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:33 am

trice wrote:I've been planting with A&M for 3 years now going on my 4th. I've also had the pleasure of planting with Brinkman. Both companies have pro's and cons, shit-heads and wonderful people. The food at Brinkman was.. just amazing, cussing sushi man, and lunch meat, olives, hummus, three types of cheese, soup, great stuff.. I could go on forever, it was like staying at the Hilton, oh yeah we did that too. but you know what it wasn’t A&M. There were some days at brinkman dancing like a drunken naked fool, rocking with my cock out to rage, and I thought to my self " whoa naked lesbians". Anyway I'm going to work my balls off, I'm going to work them right off and wear them around my cussing neck, because I'm planting cussing trees; I'm sure most tree planting company would love to accept ANY EX A&M greener; We know how to plant land. Right carina? I’m sure your wearing Pauls balls around your neck right now; and you know what you probably wouldn’t be as bad ass a tree planter as you are now if you hadn’t popped your cherry at A&M. Maybe I'm wrong? oh yeah on another note. I've worked minimum wage jobs. I’ve always put effort into those jobs, and I can say this: I'm not making cussing minimum wage, even if it was 7.5 cents. Any of the planting job’s I’ve had allows me to make extraordinary amounts of money. Planting isn't a cussing vacation, *although I consider it one* its hard labour. I’m proud of my work and of the planting companies I’ve worked for. I've planted trees from 7 cents a tree all the way to 13.5 in Ontario. You make more money than me? Good for you. At least I’ve got a good attitude, and I’m sure that’ll put a twinkle in any of my future employers eyes.. instead of all this shit flinging. The A&M bashers on this site have been scarred, and I’m sorry, especially you carina, I didn't know you made 8 bucks, that’s kind of funny; in a serious lets get drunk in the off season and then you me and furry can laugh about it, kind of way... at least you didn't get a bill ha! ha! ha! Oh and dogmusher nice analogy; go fuck yourself. Anyway I'm rambling. My point is I have always felt safe at A&M, I have always had enough to eat, and while I'm not a highballer, I do make enough to pay for school; while spending advances to get ridiculously drunk on days off. The People are bringing me back to A&M, this year is going to be great and extraordinary in every possible way imaginable. and if I’m wrong? well.. In my books if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well. so after I do that, I'll get paid for every single cussing tree I've planted *because like the cussing genius I am I kept track of what I plant* and move on to my next Tree Planting adventure; hopefully coastal planting. So I bid you all adieu, I’m going to make like a tree and get the fuck outa of here. I wish everybody in this forum a most excellent planting season.

"Cuss"? "Cussing"? Did you just watch the Fantastic Mr. Fox before posting this?

Sounds like your made for the plant your doing.

*Hot Tip!* Improve readability! Hard returns are your friend!

trice · Post by **trice** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:37 pm

I like the word cuss, try it out with me? "Cluster cuss". Fuck has become a less dirty word over the years. I'm going to give it back some meaning by saying cuss more often than not. And yeah I did watch the fantastic Mr fox, you got a problem with that you cluster cussing cuss cuss? :)

katerz · Post by **katerz** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:22 pm

I did my rookie season last year with A&M and I can honestly say it was one of the best, most fulfilling, and character building experiences of my life. I also managed to pick up some contracts with Brinkman & Associates, so I have something to compare it to. Now, I'm not going to say there was nothing to complain about, but as a rookie I didn't know any better. In comparison to Brinkman.. yes the food sucked; breakfast was mediocre at best, and the lack of choice for lunch wasn't cool (to this day I can't bring myself to eat pb&j). But in respect to my personal safety, the potential to make money, and any other shit that is being flung around here.. I just don't see where it's coming from. I had a good time, I actually made money, met some really great people (not only that I worked with, but whom I worked for), and never felt like my safety was being compromised. My crew boss was a rookie crew boss, and if it wasn't for him I wouldn't be as passionate about planting as I am; he was patient, easy going, and reliable. I learned how to plant good trees in shit land, and when I'm in the good land (and there actually is some..) I know I can pound it! And if it was really that bad, I wouldn't be returning there for my 2nd season.
Hope you all have a good spring, and stay safe!!
cheers

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Sat May 01, 2010 9:09 am

Seabass wrote:Chris Hendsbee is a good person working for a shit company. Why he's remained there for so long is beyond me.
.

completely agree.

and t-rice, yeah, if i hadn't of planted for a & m, i wouldnt have gotten so much credit from other companies telling me they are amazed i put up with such bullshit. and if i hadn't of planted for a & m, i wouldn't of known what it was like to get fucked over.

Chocolatej · Post by **Chocolatej** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:04 pm

After 2 seasons with A&M (and none elsewhere), my opinion of A&M is it is a mediocre planting company (this being a combination of the Chris' awesomeness and Paul's greasiness).

I think I may a little too indulgent in regards to their contracts/tree price (anyone from 2010 will tell the shit land we were in for weeks; 8cents for what alberta-vets estimated at over 15cents worth) but for me it's part of the experience. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself here but I have other motivations than money and blocks like Dianne and Glosh ended up being rewarding in other aspects.

The deciding factor in my reurning decision in the next season will be on the returning staff. I agree with most people on Pearson, I wouldn't want to plant for him but there are others who are great people/planters/crewboss' and that could convince me to return. Of course I will never plant in Pizz' camp again (while Chris and KP are a pleasure to work for).

As far as paychecks, I've had no problems. Food, great dinners, shitty breakfests. Bus problems: sucked but everyone was in pretty good spirits about them.

As far as safety, we had a forest fire at camp in may; Chris and others were on top of it and put it out in no time at all. Impecable reactions as far as that goes. We also had a few bear scares that quickly solved by Chris as smoothly as the fire.

Overall, I'm thinking of applying elsewhere next year, that being said A&M is still a possibility, my experiences have been mostly good working for them.

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:03 pm

^ Is A&M mostly Ontario company? You should try heading out West.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:38 pm

Hello,
This will be my first year planting and I know its really late in the season but the only company that contacted me was A&M. I read through the whole thread and some other info on the internet about this company. I have heard more bad things than good things. Would any of you tell me if I should work my first year for them? I like challenges and Im ready to withstand anything, but things like them not paying me and shitty bosses scare me as this is my first year. A response asap will be greatly appreciated.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:49 pm

If you're going to work for them, A&M demands you give THEM $100 to "secure" your spot:

http://www.amreforestation.com/deposit.html

Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Have I ever heard of a legitimate company that asks for money from its potential employees to secure a job?
2. What would lead a company to adopt such an unprecedented practice?
3. Thinking about those reasons, do I want to work for a company that would adopt such a practice?

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:31 pm

Nate wrote:If you're going to work for them, A&M demands you give THEM $100 to "secure" your spot:

http://www.amreforestation.com/deposit.html

Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Have I ever heard of a legitimate company that asks for money from its potential employees to secure a job?
2. What would lead a company to adopt such an unprecedented practice?
3. Thinking about those reasons, do I want to work for a company that would adopt such a practice?

You are absolutely right when I saw that deposit I was like what the hell it sounds like a scam but then I know this is a legitimate company.
IMO that deposit is there because there are probably a lot of rookies who quit and breach the contract thus making them lose money. I understand on one point why that deposit is required but I dont like it at all.
Scheduled for a phone interview soon what questions should I ask them? XD

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:40 pm

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
Nate wrote:If you're going to work for them, A&M demands you give THEM $100 to "secure" your spot:

http://www.amreforestation.com/deposit.html

Ask yourself the following questions:

1. Have I ever heard of a legitimate company that asks for money from its potential employees to secure a job?
2. What would lead a company to adopt such an unprecedented practice?
3. Thinking about those reasons, do I want to work for a company that would adopt such a practice?
You are absolutely right when I saw that deposit I was like what the hell it sounds like a scam but then I know this is a legitimate company.
IMO that deposit is there because there are probably a lot of rookies who quit and breach the contract thus making them lose money. I understand on one point why that deposit is required but I dont like it at all.
Scheduled for a phone interview soon what questions should I ask them? XD

I think you know what you're getting, asking questions isn't going to change anything here. You're in a tough spot no doubt, either don't plant, or you plant for these guys. I'm not going to give you advice on what to do either way, because there are people who enjoy their experience with A&M and are glad they did it, though there certainly are those did not, but if you do go I would recommend:

1. Keep a journal of everything that happens throughout the season.
2. EVERY DAY write down how many trees you planted and what price they told you it would be, and how many hours you worked (i.e. what time you got on the bus, what time you got off the bus).
3. Take the maximum advance they offer when they do offer it.

Good luck.

Chocolatej · Post by **Chocolatej** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:30 pm

Nate, you may be happy to hear (or may not care) that Paul T is almost out of the picture at A&M. He still is the owner but Chris H is now General Manager/Supervisor/Running the show.

The season looks good for A&M contract wise and even a lengthy summer plant in August.

And yes, keep track of EVERYTHING you plant! (wise words regardless of the company)

whitepickup · Post by **whitepickup** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:45 pm

[quote
3. Take the maximum advance they offer when they do offer it.

Good luck.[/quote]

Herein lies the problem. By law, they must pay every two weeks in full. Stop accepting advances as a mode of payment. You are encouraging company owners to take more work than they can handle.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:22 pm

whitepickup wrote:
Herein lies the problem. By law, they must pay every two weeks in full. Stop accepting advances as a mode of payment. You are encouraging company owners to take more work than they can handle.

Illegal in B.C., not illegal in Ontario.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:25 pm

If I end up going I will add my experiences to this thread to clear up things once and for all about this company... They are willing to teach me as they hire a lot of rookies and because this is my first time I cant be picky.. As for my money, I will count each tree that I plant and there will be two camps and I will be going to the good one apparently if I decide to go... This is Canada, no place can dodge payment to their workers.. its illegal and it doesnt make any sense.. Theyve been in business for almost 30 years, do you think they would actually still be around if they dont pay their workers? Doesnt make any sense...

Chocolatej · Post by **Chocolatej** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:00 am

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:If I end up going I will add my experiences to this thread to clear up things once and for all about this company... They are willing to teach me as they hire a lot of rookies and because this is my first time I cant be picky.. As for my money, I will count each tree that I plant and there will be two camps and I will be going to the good one apparently if I decide to go... This is Canada, no place can dodge payment to their workers.. its illegal and it doesnt make any sense.. Theyve been in business for almost 30 years, do you think they would actually still be around if they dont pay their workers? Doesnt make any sense...

You will notice everyone who has issues with A&M here has them with Paul T. He no longer supervises contracts, nor even manages it, thus no camp will be left behind this year like some have in the past. Both supervisors are great and well liked even by people who bash Paul.

As for payment, any company will have rookies complain about it. The fact is plain and simple: they didn't work hard enough. Your final paycheck will include all your weekly tree totals (as well as advances, camp costs charged, etc). You can check these records with both your own and your forman's, which you will receive every shift. If there is a discrepancy, the foreman's tallies will stand as they are signed by both of you on site. Like you said, they can't dodge this.

I dare you to find a single ontario company with 100% positive feedback... it doesn't happen.

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:03 am

Your final paycheck will include all your weekly tree totals (as well as advances, camp costs charged, etc). You can check these records with both your own and your forman's, which you will receive every shift. If there is a discrepancy, the foreman's tallies will stand as they are signed by both of you on site. Like you said, they can't dodge this.

That is a good system if both the planter and the foreman sign two copies, so the planter also gets to keep a copy. It is much easier to sort out tree discrepancies on a weekly basis, instead of at the end of the summer.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:04 pm

Was supposed to sleep on the floor of a gym. Ate a single hard boiled egg and a single sausage for breakfast one morning. Long hours and long shifts, I never saw a tree tally total until i received my pay (i was paid in full). I didn't pay the deposit because I told them i didn't want to, they said fine. Chris Hendsby is a great guy and knows his shit, foreman are nice people but not necessarily experienced, and i don't think any of them had work for anyone other than A & M. Overall, I would not work for this company again because of the prices, lack of organization, poor food budget, long days and that they actually asked me to sleep on the floor of a gym.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:32 pm

dreamofcream wrote:Slept on the floor of a gym, ate a single hard boiled egg and a single sausage for breakfast one morning. Long hours, long shifts, I never saw a tree tally total until i received my pay (i was paid in full). I didn't pay the deposit because I told them i didn't want to, they said fine. Chris Hendsby is a great guy and knows his shit, foreman are nice people. Overall, I would not work for this company again simply because of the prices, organization food, long days and weeks.

Wow.. Those accusations make no sense. First of all no one feeds a breakfast like that for decades and gets away with it. Gym floor, really? Ppl sleep in tents not gyms u make no sense. I kno im a rookie but im taking this seriously, if you are gonna write things in this thread please be honest in your answers and dont just write whatever comes to your head. I have decided Im going so I will put my experiences here later on I will try to take a journal with me.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:08 pm

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
dreamofcream wrote:Slept on the floor of a gym, ate a single hard boiled egg and a single sausage for breakfast one morning. Long hours, long shifts, I never saw a tree tally total until i received my pay (i was paid in full). I didn't pay the deposit because I told them i didn't want to, they said fine. Chris Hendsby is a great guy and knows his shit, foreman are nice people. Overall, I would not work for this company again simply because of the prices, organization food, long days and weeks.
Wow.. Those accusations make no sense. First of all no one feeds a breakfast like that for decades and gets away with it. Gym floor, really? Ppl sleep in tents not gyms u make no sense. I kno im a rookie but im taking this seriously, if you are gonna write things in this thread please be honest in your answers and dont just write whatever comes to your head. I have decided Im going so I will put my experiences here later on I will try to take a journal with me.

lol, dreamofcream's posts is probably the most balanced post made in this entire thread. I guess as a rookie that looks like nonsense, but I'd bet money it's 100% true.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:29 pm

Nate wrote:
Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
dreamofcream wrote:Slept on the floor of a gym, ate a single hard boiled egg and a single sausage for breakfast one morning. Long hours, long shifts, I never saw a tree tally total until i received my pay (i was paid in full). I didn't pay the deposit because I told them i didn't want to, they said fine. Chris Hendsby is a great guy and knows his shit, foreman are nice people. Overall, I would not work for this company again simply because of the prices, organization food, long days and weeks.
Wow.. Those accusations make no sense. First of all no one feeds a breakfast like that for decades and gets away with it. Gym floor, really? Ppl sleep in tents not gyms u make no sense. I kno im a rookie but im taking this seriously, if you are gonna write things in this thread please be honest in your answers and dont just write whatever comes to your head. I have decided Im going so I will put my experiences here later on I will try to take a journal with me.
lol, dreamofcream's posts is probably the most balanced post made in this entire thread. I guess as a rookie that looks like nonsense, but I'd bet money it's 100% true.

So they sleep in gyms in the outdoors and not in tents? Thats very balanced thanks for clearing that up... Its not that that im defending this company its just that these accusations are not elaborate at all and they sound more like rants from ppl who couldnt cut than facts. Please elaborate more on your accusations as I want more facts than useless rantings.
Thanks

Chocolatej · Post by **Chocolatej** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:56 pm

I'm not sure if dreamofcream was talking about this last season, but I'll elaborate on a similar situation.

A&M had a short (5 days) contract in Capreol before the rookies arrived last season. Only 20 or so vets were planting and we stayed in a community centre close to the blocks. It had a fully operational kitchen, wifi, hot showers, and separators for privacy. It was in fact more comfortable than the bush, (albeit unusual) and we all had a great time.

Obviously this wouldn't happen with a full camp!

As for not seeing tree totals until the end of the season... that doesn't make any sense at all.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:09 pm

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
So they sleep in gyms in the outdoors and not in tents? Thats very balanced thanks for clearing that up... Its not that that im defending this company its just that these accusations are not elaborate at all and they sound more like rants from ppl who couldnt cut than facts. Please elaborate more on your accusations as I want more facts than useless rantings.
Thanks

I changed my mind, you'll fit in great at A&M, I highly recommend you go with them, good luck.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:51 pm

Nate wrote:
Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
So they sleep in gyms in the outdoors and not in tents? Thats very balanced thanks for clearing that up... Its not that that im defending this company its just that these accusations are not elaborate at all and they sound more like rants from ppl who couldnt cut than facts. Please elaborate more on your accusations as I want more facts than useless rantings.
Thanks
I changed my mind, you'll fit in great at A&M, I highly recommend you go with them, good luck.

Sigh.. All I wanted was advice not just random accusations thats all I meant.. And when I ask for specifics and more explanation I get these kind of answers.. Anyways, if anyone else has something to say or share an experience they had with A&M Id like to know.. And please elaborate and include details thank you!

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:57 pm

Chocolatej wrote:I'm not sure if dreamofcream was talking about this last season, but I'll elaborate on a similar situation.

A&M had a short (5 days) contract in Capreol before the rookies arrived last season. Only 20 or so vets were planting and we stayed in a community centre close to the blocks. It had a fully operational kitchen, wifi, hot showers, and separators for privacy. It was in fact more comfortable than the bush, (albeit unusual) and we all had a great time.

Obviously this wouldn't happen with a full camp!

As for not seeing tree totals until the end of the season... that doesn't make any sense at all.

Hey see this is what Im talking about! Thanks for sharing that, that was more detailed.. And yea I agree that doesnt make any sense

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:01 pm

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
Nate wrote:
Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
So they sleep in gyms in the outdoors and not in tents? Thats very balanced thanks for clearing that up... Its not that that im defending this company its just that these accusations are not elaborate at all and they sound more like rants from ppl who couldnt cut than facts. Please elaborate more on your accusations as I want more facts than useless rantings.
Thanks
I changed my mind, you'll fit in great at A&M, I highly recommend you go with them, good luck.
Sigh.. All I wanted was advice not just random accusations thats all I meant.. And when I ask for specifics and more explanation I get these kind of answers.. Anyways, if anyone else has something to say or share an experience they had with A&M Id like to know.. And please elaborate and include details thank you!

I've never worked for them, but I've met a few people who have. The main problem is the low tree prices ( A&M is at 7.5-8c it should be atleast 9c ) and the fact that they hire so many people, so crowded camps with close to 100 planters and staff makes it pretty chaotic.

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:53 pm

I was wondering, I already told A&M yes, but another company called Thunderhouse wants to phone interview me, do you know anything about that company? And if so, is it better than A&M?

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:24 am

Thunderhouse still has work?!?!

Ltnt_Mustang · Post by **Ltnt_Mustang** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:32 am

Sebastian wrote:Thunderhouse still has work?!?!

Yea researching about that company I heard that they were out of a contract for a year or two, but they are back on it apparently.. do u kno anything about them? are they good to work for? in their website it says they have wifi, etc. Do most camps offer wifi?

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:56 pm

wifi does not make a quality camp.

Worked for them 9 years ago: they were terrible.

They had a crew bus roll over 2 or 3 years ago.

Other than that, just heard lots of people say lots of things.

kenax · Post by **kenax** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:38 pm

With the permission of Scooter I just copied updated information from this thread to the Treeplanter’s Database found at http://hardcoretreeplanters.com/ to make it easier to view comments by treeplanters and compare treeplanting companies against one another, in the hopes that they will treat and pay their planters better.

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:56 pm

Chocolatej wrote: I dare you to find a single ontario company with 100% positive feedback... it doesn't happen.

Well, it seems Moose Creek pretty much got 100% positive feedback, so...

As for A&M, all I'll say is that I have two planters who started there, including Carina, that have been planting for me in Alberta for the last two years. They will be returning again this season and they are great. They both make good money (one would make way more if he wasn't such a cacher) and have great quality, especially in stringent contracts like the oilsands. Fun people to be around too.

But then I've hired two more of their fellow A&M planters last season and I had to fire them after two weeks for stashing (They promptly admitted their fault when confronted with the evidence). Before leaving, they wrote cute apology letters with their own tears, which I would have accepted if they wouldn't have justified their unlikely return to A&M, one week later, by some shit-talking towards the contracts and company they got fired from. That said, they were nice people on an personal level, one of them being quite helpful around camp, mostly in the kitchen. I still don't know if they did so because it was somewhat condoned at A&M (the way the trees were stashed wasn't too impressive) or because they thought it would fly below the radar the way it did before, but I'm not willing to say it reflects what is done in A&M camps as I've never set foot there.

Just heard lots of rumours...

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Sun May 01, 2011 6:35 pm

Woah, seems I forgot to hit "next page" before posting my last message!

Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
Nate wrote:
Ltnt_Mustang wrote:
Wow.. Those accusations make no sense. First of all no one feeds a breakfast like that for decades and gets away with it. Gym floor, really? Ppl sleep in tents not gyms u make no sense. I kno im a rookie but im taking this seriously, if you are gonna write things in this thread please be honest in your answers and dont just write whatever comes to your head. I have decided Im going so I will put my experiences here later on I will try to take a journal with me.
lol, dreamofcream's posts is probably the most balanced post made in this entire thread. I guess as a rookie that looks like nonsense, but I'd bet money it's 100% true.
So they sleep in gyms in the outdoors and not in tents? Thats very balanced thanks for clearing that up... Its not that that im defending this company its just that these accusations are not elaborate at all and they sound more like rants from ppl who couldnt cut than facts. Please elaborate more on your accusations as I want more facts than useless rantings.
Thanks

I can vouch for dreamofcream on this for many reasons.

1)I know him personally.

2)He has years of experience with many companies in at least 5 provinces (Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, B-C. Maybe QC as well.) and has worked for many companies. (I can think of only 5 right now. But I'm sure there's at least one more)

3) The story makes sense in context, when you're not a newly hired worker with no planting experience (You're not a rookie yet). He went to work on that contract at the end of last season to supplement his main season in B-C. From what I have been told, it was a "fall plant" type of contract, with only a bunch of guys and explains why they didn't have a soft camp and slept in tents, as such a camp can become useless and expensive depending on the contract access, length, number of planters, etc. (FYI, lots of planters never sleep in tents, so it does make sense)

4)If one would need to cross-check his assumptions (which were indeed totally fair, as Nate pointed it out) and would like to pretend he never set foot there, he told me about meeting the two A&M guys I fired earlier that season before I told him that story. That said, he could have invented the experience while there, but I don't see the interest in telling me such a lie while having a private discussion. And I also know he had a way worst experience with another company. He didn't stay there long, and it wasn't because he couldn't cut it.

Anyways, Lt.Mustang, the point is that, despite claiming you researched and are taking this job seriously, you seem to be pretty quick to dismiss some info. For someone who has never set a foot in a camp and has lots to lose, talking down an experienced vet with a wide variety of planting experience as "ppl who couldnt cut" is not only naive, but seriously just plain stupid (stronger word edited). Also, I think that the way the surviving dudes and dudettes at the end of a A&M season seem to pride themselves as survivors, with the 50% quitting being weak says a lot about the company's mentality.

Doesn't mean you won't have a decent season and won't make money though. But given your limited experience, even by the end of the season, this won't be enough to offer most here a totally objective description (I've seen other rookies describing, in the few "pros" they had for the company who hired them, stuff that are industry-wide standards. The review then becomes a useless exercise).

That said, as someone who never planted, I have to congratulate you for your extremely high sense of entitlement in your recent posts in this thread, both towards vets commenting and towards a job that you don't even know yet if you'll be good at; one that you might quit yourself.

Finally, as someone who met their planters, have seen their driving in the bush, planted the contracts they couldn't finish and hired a girl who planted for them before fleeing to B-C and then Alberta; I believe Thunderhouse is worst than A&M.

dreamofcream · Post by **dreamofcream** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:03 am

When I expressed my experiences working with A&M it was not slander. There are people that work for the company that know their shit, including Chris who is well versed in silviculture, and simply a nice guy. The issues I had with the job were all related to circumstances arising frequently in Ontario, but especially among companies such as this one. The relatively low amount of money allocated to reforestation in the province in comparison with western Canada causes an immediate problem, and its exacerbated by the surplus of easily hired summer students. The lack of money forces the contractors to cut corners like food budgets or staff to planter ratios to make a profit themselves and trying to ensure that planters are earning something close to a competitive wage, by Ontario standards. Contractors like these are forced to deal with high turnover rates, and few returning planters which result in a lower staff to planter ratio. They now have to bring in two new planters to accomplish what one experienced planter could do. The camp I worked in was located inside two different community centres to avoid camp set ups, a logistical decision that I understand but nonetheless dont appreciate. I value my privacy and a "divider" consisting of a flipped over table, does not make the grade. The breakfast I mentioned did occur, but did improve as it went on, although not to anything adequate. This company is frankly at the bottom of the totem pole, and isnt worth discussing further.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:29 pm

I am unlocking this topic, temporarily, but if things get out of hand it will be locked again.

I suspect I'll be locking it again fairly soon anyway, but there may be some new content in the meantime.

prof · Post by **prof** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:36 pm

So did these fellas ever get their shit together?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:09 am

Updated contact info, edit into first post maybe?

Operations Supervisor

Tyler Bransfield
am2@vianet.ca
705 665 8366 – cell
705 470 3029 – office
http://www.amreforestation.com/

ontario_grunt · Post by **ontario_grunt** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:19 am

I planted for A&M in 2013 as a rookie. Camp atmosphere was very fun and we had some epic parties. Made some good friends and had a good time.

That being said there was some down right terrible things that happened. The supervisor one morning decided to fire about 6 planters for low production and leave them in town. The problem was that because of a forest fire we were unable to get to Timmins which has public transportation, so instead our day off was in Chapleau and the fired planters were stranded in a town with infrequent public transport. The planters were going to have to wait around for days before a bus was going to come. An Outland camp was in town that day and after hearing what happened to them they were given a safe ride to a greyhound station. I'm pretty sure what the supervisor did was illegal. A&M has a very old school attitude when it comes to everything they do. We got yelled at for taking a day off when sick or injured and shut up and plant was the common mantra. The food was also terrible. I myself now cook so I can say with some authority that the food was downright awful likely due to a bare bones food budget. Maybe things have gotten better in the last couple years but almost everyone I planted with has moved on to different companies.

I still had fun though... Because for all the bad things.. there still ain't no party like an A&M party.

theBushman · Post by **theBushman** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:11 am

Those are signs of a project that is underfunded or is cutting into time for more profitable projects. Either way, the mucky mucks aren't happy and are rolling shit downhill.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:29 am

ontario_grunt wrote: I still had fun though... Because for all the bad things.. there still ain't no party like an A&M party.

That sums up why Ontario works. Fun, not pay.

The Rev · Post by **The Rev** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:02 pm

A&M Reforestation ... not planting anymore

Focusing on other business ventures - not planting related

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:57 pm

Interesting. Three months and a day before someone mentioned this. I was wondering how long it would take.

The Ontario industry is really consolidating, I think? Who's left? Brinkman, Outland, HRI, Haveman, Thunderhouse, Treeline. Any others? The list of Ontario companies that don't plant anymore is fairly extensive. Broland/Arbor/Wilderness/PRT/A&M?

I don't pay that much attention to Ontario, so perhaps I don't even have the above info correct, and I'm probably also missing companies.

theBushman · Post by **theBushman** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:54 am

Brinkman bought PRT Frontier, before last season.