A&M (Ontario)

Christian · Post by **Christian** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:14 pm

I've been offered positions with both Broland and A and M Reforestion. Can anyone that has personaly expereince with these companies(preferably someone who has worked for either of them) let me know what they are like to work for. Do they treat you with respect? Are they professional and safe in their work practices? Do you get your trees when you need them?

summitpb · Post by **summitpb** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:54 pm

I'd say plant with a&m. Idealy you'd want to get in with the above average companies in ontario, like frontier or moose creek for example. But, A&M will provide proper training for the future. I've heard good things about this company. I've worked with broland/wilderness thinning, planting, spraying and all I will say it's average in terms of pay, if not below average. Just remember to apply early next season when you come out west to plant. Good luck

vikingsdidWTC · Post by **vikingsdidWTC** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:23 am

If you're planting for money and not to get laid of kill six weeks, head to BC and forget about Ontario. Going with either of those companies over the BC outfits hiring rookies right now will cost you at least two or three thousand dollars.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:44 am

I'll try not to editorialize, but here are some observations on my part about A&M:

1. They have the worst food budget of any camp I have ever been in, or ever heard of.
2. They use very old school buses for the bulk of their transportation. When I worked there we had several mechanical problems with them.
3. Thoroughly READ your employment contract with this company before signing. Look at the things they can (and will) dock your pay for.
4. They give advances throughout the season, then you get paid lump sum when they're paid by the client at the end of the season. So for my work in May, I was paid in August. This, by the way, is illegal in other provinces.
5. Their camps are huge, and they hire banking on losing several planters within the first two weeks.
6. Their turnover ratio is one of the highest I've ever seen.

This company does, however, I believe have some very good people working for it. Why they work for this company, I have no idea, but the fact that such people do exist there is the only thing preventing me from writing a novel about what I think about the way this company does business.

dooowap · Post by **dooowap** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:49 pm

I'm a rookie. I currently have 2 jobs planting in Ontario with Moose Creek and A & M Reforestation. I can't find much feedback on either company. I have heard that A & M has nasty food though, that's about it. Anyone have input on either company?

the_dude · Post by **the_dude** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:31 pm

I heard from a guy i met in camp last year that moose creek is the place to be if your in Ontario.

On the flip side i know several people who have worked for a&m, they all say that place is absolutely the worst. underbid to the 9's, unreasonable production pressure, and they have had several problems with payment and even keeping their planters in camp.

Having never worked for either, and only hearsay on both, i suggest Moose Creek. besides you apparently get to roll with hutterites

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:40 am

I've never heard of Moose Creek but I've worked for A&M. The food was good once upon a time until those cooks left for BC and were replaced by "cooks" from Cape Breton who make such garbage as tuna dumplings (whatever the heck those are) and other barely edible garbage. There's a few decent people there but for the most part the management is composed of a few Capers who have been there for a good 10 years or so and all their friends/poker buddies/girlfriends. It's rare that you don't have trees or land with them, unless that's changed in the last few years with younger, less experienced staff. Most staff has maybe 1 or 2 years of planting experience at most. Busses are rather unreliable if they even start in the morning, which is really the least of the problems when you consider that it's better than the brakes or leaf springs blowing out on the way to a block... down a hill. A&M will put more production pressure on you than a BC company would... it's weird since the foremen are on day rate of $150 in their first year and I think it's a $25 or $50 increase for subsequent seasons. Stashing and overclaiming are predominant issues there and a large amount of it is ignored because it is done by their "highballers". I don't know anything about problems keeping planters in camp... it's a huge rookie factory and they hire pretty much anyone and everyone who applies so you have a lot of quitters because of the amount of people who didn't really know what they were getting into. A&M is as guilty of underbidding other companies as a large number of Ontario companies but they've been very restricted to the Manitouwadge area over the past 4 or 5 seasons with very little work outside of there. You'll get about 7.5cents, maybe 8cents on a good day, with them. Back when I started planting there were contracts in Timmins, Hearst, White River, Geraldton, Nipigon, Kap, but those are all gone now for various reasons... As far as payment goes, you are usually able to get $50 or $100 as an "advance" on your day off then you get the rest of your pay no sooner than 6 weeks after the spring season ends. On the bright side, it's a good place to work if you like eating burnt bacon every single morning.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:54 am

Seabass wrote:I've never heard of Moose Creek but I've worked for A&M. The food was good once upon a time until those cooks left for BC and were replaced by "cooks" from Cape Breton who make such garbage as tuna dumplings (whatever the heck those are) and other barely edible garbage. There's a few decent people there but for the most part the management is composed of a few Capers who have been there for a good 10 years or so and all their friends/poker buddies/girlfriends. It's rare that you don't have trees or land with them, unless that's changed in the last few years with younger, less experienced staff. Most staff has maybe 1 or 2 years of planting experience at most. Busses are rather unreliable if they even start in the morning, which is really the least of the problems when you consider that it's better than the brakes or leaf springs blowing out on the way to a block... down a hill. A&M will put more production pressure on you than a BC company would... it's weird since the foremen are on day rate of $150 in their first year and I think it's a $25 or $50 increase for subsequent seasons. Stashing and overclaiming are predominant issues there and a large amount of it is ignored because it is done by their "highballers". I don't know anything about problems keeping planters in camp... it's a huge rookie factory and they hire pretty much anyone and everyone who applies so you have a lot of quitters because of the amount of people who didn't really know what they were getting into. A&M is as guilty of underbidding other companies as a large number of Ontario companies but they've been very restricted to the Manitouwadge area over the past 4 or 5 seasons with very little work outside of there. You'll get about 7.5cents, maybe 8cents on a good day, with them. Back when I started planting there were contracts in Timmins, Hearst, White River, Geraldton, Nipigon, Kap, but those are all gone now for various reasons... As far as payment goes, you are usually able to get $50 or $100 as an "advance" on your day off then you get the rest of your pay no sooner than 6 weeks after the spring season ends. On the bright side, it's a good place to work if you like eating burnt bacon every single morning.

I think this sums it up well.

I don't know a thing about Moose Creek but I can't imagine your losing value by not choosing A&M.

pumalynx · Post by **pumalynx** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:13 pm

i planted with both companies, briefly, during the same summer, 8 years ago. moose creek was far better. although it was a shitty contract, management was straightforward and made the best of a bad situation. a and m had very low prices and weren't all that organized. and i just liked the people at moose creek a lot better.

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:24 am

stoomak · Post by **stoomak** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:58 pm

Nate definitely knows what he's talking about on this one. I planted the same contract with him at A&M. He was smart enough to leave a few weeks in. I don't think he was there for the near fatal bus incident. Due to dusty conditions one bus clipped the back of another that had stopped up ahead doing about 60 clicks. The driver had to swerve to avoid the vehicle in front and ended up across the road in the ditch. In rerospect its alomost impossible to conceive how the bus didn't roll. Anyway avoid A&M at all costs. You can expect 7.5 cents for the worst land out there plus crewbosses with literally one summer of planting under their belt.

stoomak · Post by **stoomak** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:03 pm

I should add that last year when I was at Haveman, a crew of volunteers was going to be sent to help finish off A&M's contract because so many of their planters had quit. In the end A&M failed Haveman's credit check. It's one company where I would actually be worried about getting paid.

Zab · Post by **Zab** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:43 pm

I didn't get any money from A&M until late August.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:37 pm

Zab wrote:I didn't get any money from A&M until late August.

Yeah that's how they roll. In BC/Alberta it's illegal for companies to do that.

Ask for the maximum advances all season long, even if you don't need them.

treesplease · Post by **treesplease** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:00 pm

It's amazing how far and wide the planting rumour mill reaches these days. And how the story changes with each retelling.
Without commenting on whether to plant for Moose Creek or A&M, I'll just add a little bit of insight on A&M's most recent season and some of the rumours surrounding it as I was there first hand to experience it. First off, the food. The cook is a 3 year experienced camp cook, with some real world experience too. Breakfasts were a bit bland, although hearty and filling. Dinners were nothing short of awesome. I can't say the same for 2 seasons prior, but last season the cook really stepped it up and held his own. And there was nothing but agreement from the other planters in camp, never complaints. As for the "food poisoning" as mentioned above, it's complete BS. Our camp did get a large outbreak of some gastro-intestinal bug that got many of the planters sick (probably about 1/3-1/2 of our 90 person camp) but it was traced back to a planter that brought it in from T-bay. We had numerous people/doctors checking on the source of the bug, and it was determined within 12 hours that it wasn't related to food poisoning. On that note, if you're gonna bash a company, get your facts together.

The bus incident. Whoever said 2 busses "clipped" is sadly mistaken. While that sure makes for a good story, it simply isn't true. One of the drivers (yes, 1st year crew boss, 1st year driving a bus) caught a soft shoulder in inclement weather and was sucked into the ditch. Hardly the harrowing story of bus collisions and near-rollings. (The bus was never even close to rolling.) It was a one time incident that probably could have been avoided, and was taken care of after the fact.

As for the crew bosses, all have at least 3 years planting experience. I realize that this isn't a huge number, but when working for a small Ontario company, it's hard to keep planters from defecting out west, regardless of how well or poorly you treat them. There certainly isn't any 2nd year planters being offered crew-boss positions.

Management at A&M is awesome. The supervisor for my camp has about 10 years planting experience, 3-4 crew bossing, and about 4 supervising. There are a few crew bosses with similar credentials. The camp highballers have 8 and 10 years of planting experience each. There certainly isn't a lack of experience in the camps, just an influx of rookies.

Now, I'm not saying A&M is perfect, or even close to it. I just feel like they deserve justice, and the people spreading untrue rumours should be corrected. I've done that. The company offered me a great couple seasons, and I've made the switch out west this year. My decision has been based on money alone. It was tough to make a TON of cash with A&M due to low prices, and shit land, especially in your first year. Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500. I fared much better than this in my rookie year, and made a solid amount in my second year, but I'm always hungry for more. It was a very hard decision for me to make to go out west because I love the people I worked with. All the planters, cooks, crew bosses and my supervisor were awesome people, with great qualities. Hardly the unsafe, uncaring picture painted in this thread. Say what you will about the company, but unless you've worked there in the most recent season or two, your words don't hold much weight.

Cheers.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:41 pm

treesplease wrote:It's amazing how far and wide the planting rumour mill reaches these days. And how the story changes with each retelling.
Without commenting on whether to plant for Moose Creek or A&M, I'll just add a little bit of insight on A&M's most recent season and some of the rumours surrounding it as I was there first hand to experience it. First off, the food. The cook is a 3 year experienced camp cook, with some real world experience too. Breakfasts were a bit bland, although hearty and filling. Dinners were nothing short of awesome. I can't say the same for 2 seasons prior, but last season the cook really stepped it up and held his own. And there was nothing but agreement from the other planters in camp, never complaints. As for the "food poisoning" as mentioned above, it's complete BS. Our camp did get a large outbreak of some gastro-intestinal bug that got many of the planters sick (probably about 1/3-1/2 of our 90 person camp) but it was traced back to a planter that brought it in from T-bay. We had numerous people/doctors checking on the source of the bug, and it was determined within 12 hours that it wasn't related to food poisoning. On that note, if you're gonna bash a company, get your facts together.

The bus incident. Whoever said 2 busses "clipped" is sadly mistaken. While that sure makes for a good story, it simply isn't true. One of the drivers (yes, 1st year crew boss, 1st year driving a bus) caught a soft shoulder in inclement weather and was sucked into the ditch. Hardly the harrowing story of bus collisions and near-rollings. (The bus was never even close to rolling.) It was a one time incident that probably could have been avoided, and was taken care of after the fact.

As for the crew bosses, all have at least 3 years planting experience. I realize that this isn't a huge number, but when working for a small Ontario company, it's hard to keep planters from defecting out west, regardless of how well or poorly you treat them. There certainly isn't any 2nd year planters being offered crew-boss positions.

Management at A&M is awesome. The supervisor for my camp has about 10 years planting experience, 3-4 crew bossing, and about 4 supervising. There are a few crew bosses with similar credentials. The camp highballers have 8 and 10 years of planting experience each. There certainly isn't a lack of experience in the camps, just an influx of rookies.

Now, I'm not saying A&M is perfect, or even close to it. I just feel like they deserve justice, and the people spreading untrue rumours should be corrected. I've done that. The company offered me a great couple seasons, and I've made the switch out west this year. My decision has been based on money alone. It was tough to make a TON of cash with A&M due to low prices, and shit land, especially in your first year. Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500. I fared much better than this in my rookie year, and made a solid amount in my second year, but I'm always hungry for more. It was a very hard decision for me to make to go out west because I love the people I worked with. All the planters, cooks, crew bosses and my supervisor were awesome people, with great qualities. Hardly the unsafe, uncaring picture painted in this thread. Say what you will about the company, but unless you've worked there in the most recent season or two, your words don't hold much weight.

Cheers.

Crewbosses with less than 3 planting seasons under their belt last year include Jack Pearson and Julia Williams. Meegan only had two years of planting experience when she started crewbossing in 2007. The other two I mentioned had two years when they started in 2008. There was more than just those three. The camp highballers do not have that much experience as you give them. Greg Guthro and I started in the same camp together years ago and we were both in our 6th seasons last year. The last I worked for A&M in 2007 and if I'm not mistaken on who he is, Nate was there as well (summer plant in August 2007).

That said, you're a waste of my time as far as debating this goes because, in your words, "your words don't hold much weight" and you need to "get your facts together." I started planting before you even had hair on your balls so piss off with your ill advised praise of A&M. Clearly you haven't worked elsewhere.

treesplease · Post by **treesplease** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:27 am

Seabass wrote:
Crewbosses with less than 3 planting seasons under their belt last year include Jack Pearson and Julia Williams. Meegan Bradley only had two years of planting experience when she started crewbossing in 2007. The other two I mentioned had two years when they started in 2008. There was more than just those three. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but know that I was on Meegan's crew when she was a rookie in 2005 and planted with Jack in 2007. The camp highballers do not have that much experience as you give them. Greg Guthro and I started in the same camp together years ago and we were both in our 6th seasons last year. The last I worked for A&M in 2007 and if I'm not mistaken on who he is, Nate was there as well (summer plant in August 2007).

That said, you're a waste of my time as far as debating this goes because, in your words, "your words don't hold much weight" and you need to "get your facts together." I started planting before you even had hair on your balls so piss off with your ill advised praise of A&M. Clearly you haven't worked elsewhere.

You're right! I checked my facts, and yes, both Jack and Julia have 2 years planting experience before crew bossing. Might I point out though that you originally claimed "most crewbosses have 1 to 2 years crew bossing experience"? When in fact, 3 of 5 crew bosses had more than 2 years experience? I'm not arguing that this is sufficient planting experience or suggesting that these crewbosses were adequately prepared to crewboss, but simply stating that the majority of crewbosses have more than 2 years experience planting (in some cases, much more) and that there were no crewbosses with less than 2 years planting experience. And again, I hardly praise the company. I have worked elsewhere in Ontario, but thats beside the point. I was simply clearing up some of the rumors surrounding A&M. I've had my pains and problems with the company, but I still feel they deserve to be defended against simply untrue rumors. If you don't want to waste your time debating this, that's fine by me. And regardless of how many years you've planted over me, I'm still able to speak freely about the companies I have planted for, and the situations I have personally experienced.

Cheers.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:18 am

Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500.

For a full season of planting?

The Rev · Post by **The Rev** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:50 pm

..... "It was tough to make a TON of cash with A&M due to low prices, and shit land, especially in your first year. Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500." ....

Paul T and A&M are brutal ... year after year they just keeping lowering the bar in Ontario

They are willing to lowball contracts and sell the shit to planters as 'the way it is' and to stop being pussies.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:01 am

treesplease wrote: And again, I hardly praise the company... I was simply clearing up some of the rumors surrounding A&M. I've had my pains and problems with the company, but I still feel they deserve to be defended against simply untrue rumors. If you don't want to waste your time debating this, that's fine by me.

You hardly praise them?? You're practically sucking their dicks with what you said about them. I would hardly consider the comments on this board as untrue rumours as everyone is in agreement except you.

A&M will exploit their employees in whatever way they can.

Here's a little story for you regarding the shadiness of Paul, the owner... In 2005 we had a brutal contract in Manitouwadge where the prices were way too fucking low for the land. 7.5cents for what I argued should've been no less than 9cents at the least. Outside of the occasional creamy sections it was extremely difficult for most of the vets to put in more than 2,000 (2,500 on a really good day). Paul comes wandering into camp one day and pulls all of us vets aside for a little "meeting" where he explodes on us with a wide array of expletives and saying that if we don't all start finding a way to put in more trees he'll drop our tree prices down to 6cents for any day below 2,500. This led to a few girls crying because 2,000 was a really good day for them in even the best conditions. Paul's response was that if we didn't like it then go home. Needless to say our supervisor took care of the situation later on, but after that meeting, pretty much all of us vets were going to quit if he followed through on the price drop. However, when we finally got paid for spring plant in August, there was roughly $250 deducted from my check for "miscellaneous". Moral of the story is that A&M will fuck you whatever way they can, no matter how long you're worked for them. I've got many, many more horror stories about these guys and this is probably one of the nicer examples.

stoomak · Post by **stoomak** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:03 pm

treesplease wrote:It's amazing how far and wide the planting rumour mill reaches these days. And how the story changes with each retelling.
Without commenting on whether to plant for Moose Creek or A&M, I'll just add a little bit of insight on A&M's most recent season and some of the rumours surrounding it as I was there first hand to experience it. First off, the food. The cook is a 3 year experienced camp cook, with some real world experience too. Breakfasts were a bit bland, although hearty and filling. Dinners were nothing short of awesome. I can't say the same for 2 seasons prior, but last season the cook really stepped it up and held his own. And there was nothing but agreement from the other planters in camp, never complaints. As for the "food poisoning" as mentioned above, it's complete BS. Our camp did get a large outbreak of some gastro-intestinal bug that got many of the planters sick (probably about 1/3-1/2 of our 90 person camp) but it was traced back to a planter that brought it in from T-bay. We had numerous people/doctors checking on the source of the bug, and it was determined within 12 hours that it wasn't related to food poisoning. On that note, if you're gonna bash a company, get your facts together.

The bus incident. Whoever said 2 busses "clipped" is sadly mistaken. While that sure makes for a good story, it simply isn't true. One of the drivers (yes, 1st year crew boss, 1st year driving a bus) caught a soft shoulder in inclement weather and was sucked into the ditch. Hardly the harrowing story of bus collisions and near-rollings. (The bus was never even close to rolling.) It was a one time incident that probably could have been avoided, and was taken care of after the fact.

As for the crew bosses, all have at least 3 years planting experience. I realize that this isn't a huge number, but when working for a small Ontario company, it's hard to keep planters from defecting out west, regardless of how well or poorly you treat them. There certainly isn't any 2nd year planters being offered crew-boss positions.

Management at A&M is awesome. The supervisor for my camp has about 10 years planting experience, 3-4 crew bossing, and about 4 supervising. There are a few crew bosses with similar credentials. The camp highballers have 8 and 10 years of planting experience each. There certainly isn't a lack of experience in the camps, just an influx of rookies.

Now, I'm not saying A&M is perfect, or even close to it. I just feel like they deserve justice, and the people spreading untrue rumours should be corrected. I've done that. The company offered me a great couple seasons, and I've made the switch out west this year. My decision has been based on money alone. It was tough to make a TON of cash with A&M due to low prices, and shit land, especially in your first year. Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500. I fared much better than this in my rookie year, and made a solid amount in my second year, but I'm always hungry for more. It was a very hard decision for me to make to go out west because I love the people I worked with. All the planters, cooks, crew bosses and my supervisor were awesome people, with great qualities. Hardly the unsafe, uncaring picture painted in this thread. Say what you will about the company, but unless you've worked there in the most recent season or two, your words don't hold much weight.

Cheers.

Just to be 100% clear on this, on the 2007 spring plant in manitouwadge, one bus did nearly ram the one in front of it exactly as i described above. The fact that no one was injured can, at least in part, be attributed to the quick reaction of the driver. At the end of the season two guys even wrote a rap that summarized the contract and included the line "~name removed~, saving lives in bus crashes!". Also, my crewboss really did have a single summer of planting under his belt. He even got fucked out of a thousand dollars by paul because our 80% rookie crew got thrown into swamp without site prep for the first few days and had to go back for a two day crew replant. incidentally that meant that i had to go and replant other planters' trees for two straight days. This basically summarizes the sort of things that can happen at A&M when things go bad. Of course its not all bad. About half way through the contract quality goes from being ridiculously strict for the tree price to nonexistent. The and is als so grown up on a lot of blocks that your trees cant be checked anyway.

muscleyskeleton · Post by **muscleyskeleton** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:31 pm

Nate's assessment is bang on. I was a rookie at A&M last summer and could speak at length about some of the shitshow days and blocks we had... but I don't really care about that and met some truly amazing people. The staff I met and dealt with were all phenomenal, and I even have a good relationship with the much-maligned (and deserving) owner. I'm even thinking about doing a second season knowing what I'm getting myself into... but not before I shop around a bit first.

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:11 pm

Nate wrote:I'll try not to editorialize, but here are some observations on my part about A&M:

1. They have the worst food budget of any camp I have ever been in, or ever heard of.
2. They use very old school buses for the bulk of their transportation. When I worked there we had several mechanical problems with them.
3. Thoroughly READ your employment contract with this company before signing. Look at the things they can (and will) dock your pay for.
4. They give advances throughout the season, then you get paid lump sum when they're paid by the client at the end of the season. So for my work in May, I was paid in August. This, by the way, is illegal in other provinces.
5. Their camps are huge, and they hire banking on losing several planters within the first two weeks.
6. Their turnover ratio is one of the highest I've ever seen.

This company does, however, I believe have some very good people working for it. Why they work for this company, I have no idea, but the fact that such people do exist there is the only thing preventing me from writing a novel about what I think about the way this company does business.

I was also hired as a rookie last summer at A&M and everything listed up there is sadly true , exept I would add terrible organisation for actual planting time ; 2 to 3 hours travelling , 45 min reefer , 1 hour walkin , 2 to 3 hours travelling , OOPS only 5 hours left to plant ... I can probably count on my fingers how many days I actually planted over 7-8 hours . at 7.5 cents, well no one will ever make me go back there . And yes it happened several times that I waited for trees , well not that the deliverers were not working their asses off - they were ! but I guess the fact that the trees are in trays ( holds less trees and more fragile while handling ) and that there is so many planters for only 1 to 2 guys is ridiculous

But a whole bunch of amazing people are working there , that's for sure .

It is clear for me : never again ontario , hello BC and money !

landhammerer · Post by **landhammerer** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:12 pm

i planted with A&M for 3 straight years now, and aslong as you have chris hensbee as a supervisor you will plant trees every day. He is the most professional, no bull shit guy in the company. If you are a rookie, i highly recommend this company as they take the time to show you the skills you need ti make money.

tyler-dunford · Post by **tyler-dunford** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:47 am

As for anyone wanting to work for A&M I Strongly recommend not. I planted with them my first spring and certainly dont recommend it. 7 and 7.5 cents a tree in not so great land. A friend of mine told the company before the contract that he would be leaving June 21 for a job somewhere else. When he decided on that day that he would be leaving the company was very mad and in August when the check came in the mail it was a 0 dollar check. I can't believe anyone would defend this company. Hopefully people avoid them at ALL COSTS!!!

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:30 pm

There's gotta be some people...

Tupperfan · Post by **Tupperfan** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:02 pm

Yes, Carina, there should be some, but the A&M people that frequent these boards moved on...just like you did.

Seabass · Post by **Seabass** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:38 pm

There's a few threads in regards to them but as far as having a formal company thread, they're not deserving of that respect.

Opera Insights · Post by **Opera Insights** » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:26 pm

I hope Pizzy has a good time peeing into his hands this coming season

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:24 am

What's nice about A&M , is that when you apply somewhere else , you look like a real bad ass by surviving their season. Hilarious !

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:01 pm

carinafleming wrote:There's gotta be some people...

Why, did you get hired by them?

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:44 pm

carinafleming wrote:There's gotta be some people...

Tupperfan wrote:Yes, Carina, there should be some, but the A&M people that frequent these boards moved on...just like you did.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:57 am

Dogmusher wrote:
carinafleming wrote:There's gotta be some people...

Tupperfan wrote:Yes, Carina, there should be some, but the A&M people that frequent these boards moved on...just like you did.

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:18 pm

oh i just wanted to hear some horror stories,
they are always good for a laugh.

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:05 pm

did they ever find the guy who disappeared from a block?

Post by **Scooter** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:13 pm

Was that definitely A&M, or was that a different company?

Are you referring to this person?

<Reader's Digest link removed, does not exist any longer>

Gabe · Post by **Gabe** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:18 pm

yup that's the guy, and it's a sad story for his family, but it was 100% definitely A&M

http://www.ajuiroaga.com/

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:09 pm

Slowsis wrote:One A & M cook gave all their planters food poisoning this past summer by not practicing proper food storage techniques. 34 Planters ended up in the Geralton hospital. Needless to say that made all the other camps in the area (brinkman/wilderness) feel a LOT better about their contracts.

Most likely it was an isolated incident, but still....

it actually wasn't food poisoning...not that i am sticking up for them by ANY means whatsoever...but i was part of the pukers!

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:12 pm

Mike wrote:
Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500.
For a full season of planting? That's crazy.

paul cut me a cheque for EIGHT, count em, EIGHT dollars,

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:13 pm

Seabass wrote:
treesplease wrote: And again, I hardly praise the company... I was simply clearing up some of the rumors surrounding A&M. I've had my pains and problems with the company, but I still feel they deserve to be defended against simply untrue rumors. If you don't want to waste your time debating this, that's fine by me.
You hardly praise them?? You're practically sucking their dicks with what you said about them. I would hardly consider the comments on this board as untrue rumours as everyone is in agreement except you.

A&M will exploit their employees in whatever way they can.

Here's a little story for you regarding the shadiness of Paul, the owner... In 2005 we had a brutal contract in Manitouwadge where the prices were way too fucking low for the land. 7.5cents for what I argued should've been no less than 9cents at the least. Outside of the occasional creamy sections it was extremely difficult for most of the vets to put in more than 2,000 (2,500 on a really good day). Paul comes wandering into camp one day and pulls all of us vets aside for a little "meeting" where he explodes on us with a wide array of expletives and saying that if we don't all start finding a way to put in more trees he'll drop our tree prices down to 6cents for any day below 2,500. This led to a few girls crying because 2,000 was a really good day for them in even the best conditions. Paul's response was that if we didn't like it then go home. Needless to say our supervisor took care of the situation later on, but after that meeting, pretty much all of us vets were going to quit if he followed through on the price drop. However, when we finally got paid for spring plant in August, there was roughly $250 deducted from my check for "miscellaneous". Moral of the story is that A&M will fuck you whatever way they can, no matter how long you're worked for them. I've got many, many more horror stories about these guys and this is probably one of the nicer examples.

AMEN!

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:40 am

Seabass wrote:
treesplease wrote: And again, I hardly praise the company... I was simply clearing up some of the rumors surrounding A&M. I've had my pains and problems with the company, but I still feel they deserve to be defended against simply untrue rumors. If you don't want to waste your time debating this, that's fine by me.
You hardly praise them?? You're practically sucking their dicks with what you said about them. I would hardly consider the comments on this board as untrue rumours as everyone is in agreement except you.

A&M will exploit their employees in whatever way they can.

Here's a little story for you regarding the shadiness of Paul, the owner... In 2005 we had a brutal contract in Manitouwadge where the prices were way too fucking low for the land. 7.5cents for what I argued should've been no less than 9cents at the least. Outside of the occasional creamy sections it was extremely difficult for most of the vets to put in more than 2,000 (2,500 on a really good day). Paul comes wandering into camp one day and pulls all of us vets aside for a little "meeting" where he explodes on us with a wide array of expletives and saying that if we don't all start finding a way to put in more trees he'll drop our tree prices down to 6cents for any day below 2,500. This led to a few girls crying because 2,000 was a really good day for them in even the best conditions. Paul's response was that if we didn't like it then go home. Needless to say our supervisor took care of the situation later on, but after that meeting, pretty much all of us vets were going to quit if he followed through on the price drop. However, when we finally got paid for spring plant in August, there was roughly $250 deducted from my check for "miscellaneous". Moral of the story is that A&M will fuck you whatever way they can, no matter how long you're worked for them. I've got many, many more horror stories about these guys and this is probably one of the nicer examples.

The guy only has 2 forum posts, both of which are in this thread lmao

swamper · Post by **swamper** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:42 am

I don’t know why this thread is still going hands down Moose Creek is by far the better company and probably the best company in Ontario / Manitoba if not all of Canada…

They have the best management of any company I have ever planted with (Scott, G). They drive converted vegetable oil crew cab trucks so you don’t need to worry about your school bus flipping over. In a year when every other company was going down MCR had its best and most profitable season for their planters. This year looks to be even better for them they have the same contracts as last year plus a couple new ones. Last year their highballer averaged over $400/day so whoever is lucky enough to get hired by MCR should practice for some heavy lifting because those cheques are going to be big and there are going to be lots of them.

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:06 pm

carinafleming wrote:
Mike wrote:
Many rookies in my first year got cheques for less than $500.
For a full season of planting? That's crazy.

crazy crack head paul cut me a cheque for EIGHT, count em, EIGHT dollars,

I had to run after my deposit, which had to be paid before the season and was supposed to be given back when finishing the season. Oh ! and I paid for planting bags and a shovel. that I didn't buy. Finally, I got the cheque in the mail, in January. Not too bad...

and about 1 year planters becoming crewbosses, there was a few last year...

And for the food, the budget is still incredibly low and everybody would complain all the time that there isn't enough. And you wanna know what ? the headcook was actually hired without any bush experience, while the assisant was actually experienced and was cook the year before for them, she was paid less than him to tell him what to do. She was doing all the job he was supposed to do for less, and he would drag his lazy ass... whatever, he rolled over with the company truck, total loss, so she finally got the spot for the last 2 weeks while he was in the hospital.

Also, while there, one driver was rolling 80km. on a dirt bumpy road with couple people and dogs in the back, we were totally traumatised, while our bum would not even touch the box, but more like flying .. that foreman is supposed to be experienced..... well I'm fucking glad it was the only time I was riding his truck. Otherwise, the rides on the bus were OK most of the time, (forget about the fact that they were lasting 2 to 3 hours) but that might have been luck

I would have more to say but I don't think there is necessity to do so. This is my own experience, and for some reasons lots of people keep going back and still enjoys it. I must say that , it's the only company on all the companies I applied for that got back to me as a rookie, and believe me I pretty much applied to every companies I could find. Without them I wouldn't be here, that's pretty much the only reason I could thank them for. And really, it wasn't too hard for me to get over all that crap because I knew it would be just for one year .. Still had fun, and still made money... almost. But would never go back.

We did work a shift of ten days to finish a contract. I don't see the sense of it too much, planters just see their production going lower, when they could rest one day to pound better after..

6/1 shifts.

So whoever is that guy saying it changed and that it's better now, from my understanding, it's not.

Oh yeah and it is true that some rookies walk away with 500$ pay cheques. But that's because they hire everybody that applies, and keep also everybody that is willing to stay, even if they are the shittiest fat lazy ass with no motivation.

Opera Insights · Post by **Opera Insights** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:50 am

As a rook last year at A&M Paul (ceo, supervisor, dick-in-residence) was pretty open about this incident. He said to us that the guy had a disagreement with his crew boss and attempted to walk off the block by himself. Not knowing the way out may have contributed to his death, most likely by hypothermia or something. factor in wild animals and you have a recipe for no corpse being found. nom nom.

not to defend A&M, but walking off the block was probably the least smart thing to do.

rumours of foul-play are unsubstantiated and i could never see murder as a reasonable conclusion.

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:05 pm

Opera Insights wrote:As a rook last year at A&M Paul (ceo, supervisor, dick-in-residence) was pretty open about this incident. He said to us that the guy had a disagreement with his crew boss and attempted to walk off the block by himself. Not knowing the way out may have contributed to his death, most likely by hypothermia or something. factor in wild animals and you have a recipe for no corpse being found. nom nom.

not to defend A&M, but walking off the block was probably the least smart thing to do.

rumours of foul-play are unsubstantiated and i could never see murder as a reasonable conclusion.

no, but it is the responsibility of the company to ensure that no planter is to EVER walk off the block.

lets say this kid was frustrated, so he stated that he wanted to leave, and they wouldn't drive him...told him to wait (which is what paul told us he did...) then what? they left him alone? they didn't try to encourage him? didn't give him someone to talk to? just let him leave?

carinafleming · Post by **carinafleming** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:11 pm

I had to run after my deposit, which had to be paid before the season and was supposed to be given back when finishing the season. Oh ! and I paid for planting bags and a shovel. that I didn't buy. Finally, I got the cheque in the mail, in January. Not too bad...

and about 1 year planters becoming crewbosses, there was a few last year...

And for the food, the budget is still incredibly low and everybody would complain all the time that there isn't enough. And you wanna know what ? the headcook was actually hired without any bush experience, while the assisant was actually experienced and was cook the year before for them, she was paid less than him to tell him what to do. She was doing all the job he was supposed to do for less, and he would drag his lazy ass... whatever, he rolled over with the company truck, total loss, so she finally got the spot for the last 2 weeks while he was in the hospital.

Also, while there, one driver was rolling 80km. on a dirt bumpy road with couple people and dogs in the back, we were totally traumatised, while our bum would not even touch the box, but more like flying .. that foreman is supposed to be experienced..... well I'm fucking glad it was the only time I was riding his truck. Otherwise, the rides on the bus were OK most of the time, (forget about the fact that they were lasting 2 to 3 hours) but that might have been luck, because it is true that the busses are in such bad shape, and the drivers not experienced..

I would have more to say but I don't think there is necessity to do so. This is my own experience, and for some reasons lots of people keep going back and still enjoys it. I must say that even though this company suck balls, it's the only company on all the companies I applied for that got back to me as a rookie, and believe me I pretty much applied to every companies I could find. Without them I wouldn't be here, that's pretty much the only reason I could thank them for. And really, it wasn't too hard for me to get over all that crap because I knew it would be just for one year .. Still had fun, and still made money... almost. But it really is crap.

We did work a shift of ten days to finish a contract. I don't see the sense of it too much, planters just see their production going lower, when they could rest one day to pound better after..

6/1 shifts.

So whoever is that guy saying it changed and that it's better now, from my understanding, it's fucking not. and swearing is important here.

Oh yeah and it is true that some rookies walk away with 500$ pay cheques. But that's because they hire everybody that applies, and keep also everybody that is willing to stay, even if they are the shittiest fat lazy ass with no motivation.

Oh I chased. I emailed, I called, etc. To no avail. They sent me some bullshit-excuse for a paper with cash advances with my name and NOT my signature beside it. Paul even sent me an email telling me that if he was to give me money for the advance that I didn't take, that he would have to take it out of our cooks salary, because he wrote the list. Then he went on to say "Do you really want to take money from Jonny Rice" using friendship as some type of morale bullshit that I didn't agree to. And still, even after agreeing that he owed me money, didn't send me anything new.

There is NOTHING that has changed with that company, I have some friends that are leaving to come work with me this year...they are about to be pleasently suprised by how differerent tree-planting is from actual slave labour.

Pearson crashed a bus my first year. Drove into the ditch cause he was too busy paying attention to his girlfriend that used to sit in the front (where its illegal) than the road.

steel8909 · Post by **steel8909** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:27 pm

carinafleming wrote:
I had to run after my deposit, which had to be paid before the season and was supposed to be given back when finishing the season. Oh ! and I paid for planting bags and a shovel. that I didn't buy. Finally, I got the cheque in the mail, in January. Not too bad...

and about 1 year planters becoming crewbosses, there was a few last year...

And for the food, the budget is still incredibly low and everybody would complain all the time that there isn't enough. And you wanna know what ? the headcook was actually hired without any bush experience, while the assisant was actually experienced and was cook the year before for them, she was paid less than him to tell him what to do. She was doing all the job he was supposed to do for less, and he would drag his lazy ass... whatever, he rolled over with the company truck, total loss, so she finally got the spot for the last 2 weeks while he was in the hospital.

Also, while there, one driver was rolling 80km. on a dirt bumpy road with couple people and dogs in the back, we were totally traumatised, while our bum would not even touch the box, but more like flying .. that foreman is supposed to be experienced..... well I'm fucking glad it was the only time I was riding his truck. Otherwise, the rides on the bus were OK most of the time, (forget about the fact that they were lasting 2 to 3 hours) but that might have been luck, because it is true that the busses are in such bad shape, and the drivers not experienced..

I would have more to say but I don't think there is necessity to do so. This is my own experience, and for some reasons lots of people keep going back and still enjoys it. I must say that even though this company suck balls, it's the only company on all the companies I applied for that got back to me as a rookie, and believe me I pretty much applied to every companies I could find. Without them I wouldn't be here, that's pretty much the only reason I could thank them for. And really, it wasn't too hard for me to get over all that crap because I knew it would be just for one year .. Still had fun, and still made money... almost. But it really is crap.

We did work a shift of ten days to finish a contract. I don't see the sense of it too much, planters just see their production going lower, when they could rest one day to pound better after..

6/1 shifts.

So whoever is that guy saying it changed and that it's better now, from my understanding, it's fucking not. and swearing is important here.

Oh yeah and it is true that some rookies walk away with 500$ pay cheques. But that's because they hire everybody that applies, and keep also everybody that is willing to stay, even if they are the shittiest fat lazy ass with no motivation.

Oh I chased. I emailed, I called, etc. To no avail. They sent me some bullshit-excuse for a paper with cash advances with my name and NOT my signature beside it. Paul even sent me an email telling me that if he was to give me money for the advance that I didn't take, that he would have to take it out of our cooks salary, because he wrote the list. Then he went on to say "Do you really want to take money from Jonny Rice" using friendship as some type of morale bullshit that I didn't agree to. And still, even after agreeing that he owed me money, didn't send me anything new.

There is NOTHING that has changed with that company, I have some friends that are leaving to come work with me this year...they are about to be pleasently suprised by how differerent tree-planting is from actual slave labour.

Pearson crashed a bus my first year. Drove into the ditch cause he was too busy paying attention to his girlfriend that used to sit in the front (where its illegal) than the road.

Did you guys get your T4's? I worked for a similar company to A&M (Ontario rookie mill bullshit), havent got the T4's. I even called the front desk and the secretary or whoever had no clue

Also took 2 months to get my pay check :p Maybe I'll get booked for tax evasion or something haha

Dogmusher · Post by **Dogmusher** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:55 pm

after trying to talk with paul, I finally got a hold of Chris Handsbee. Paul is not the person you want to talk to about cash!

and about Pearson... yeah. Pearson.

Yes I did get my T4 on time, and my paycheque came in one and a half month after the last day I think. not TOO bad. For what it is.

ssm · Post by **ssm** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:42 pm

deleted.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:46 pm

Locked, before posts in this thread continue in the wrong direction.

Baseless hypothesizing as to what did or did not happen is going to create problems we don't want on this board. This is a public forum, and we're talking about someone who's presumed dead at this point, and a family that is pressing to see the investigation reopened. It is an incredibly delicate and legally complicated situation.

If you're interested in supporting the cause or have information you feel would be relevant, go through the site that's been linked: http://www.ajuiroaga.com/.

If you would like to create a thread in support of Aju's cause, go right ahead, but please be aware that there's a big difference between commenting on reported facts and publicly making accusations, and naming names, based upon what's been heard/seen from someone directly involved.