Ask a Forester

[NotdaChecker]

Hello All:

This thread is for planters and companies to ask general questions related to silviculture operations. I know there are a few forest professionals on this site and maybe we can answer some burning questions.

I thought this would be a good idea as it seems at every new contract people always have new questions of why things are done a certain way, how we can do things better, and etc. Plus for me I like reading posts from planters to get their (or your) perspective. Happy planter = Happy trees!

A little about myself, I work for a large licensee on the BC Coast. I won't tell you who I am or who I work for, so that I and companies on here can talk off the cuff with out worry of retribution. But with that said, anything I say here I would say to your face. Please don't hide behind your anonymity and rant us to death. I am a pretty easy going, good sense of humour, and don't really bet around the bush. I will tell you straight up what I think. Some days I will be wrong (and so will you) but I will try my best to be factual and admit freely when I am wrong.

I know a lot about the safety world, you have to be an expert these days. I can't tell you anything about actual planting!!! I can count on my hands and toes about how many boxes of trees I have actually planted. Anything thing else is game... I hope some of my colleagues will pitch in as well. I am a busy man, but I will try to respond to what I can.

[Scooter]

Nice! This should be interesting.

[FCC]

...........................

[Mike]

Exactly how many trees have you planted? 10 boxes, with say, 350 trees per boxes? 3500 trees?

What do you actually do? You're post was a little vague on that aspect? Are you a checker? How are checkers trained?

[outlander]

Thank you for this thread, I think we all have questions to ask forester anonymously.

I've heard a some speculation that foresters will sometimes fail blocks just to so their company will not have to pay as much. Would you be able to confirm or refute this? Any relevant stories would be interesting.

Thank you

[Scooter]

Be careful to differentiate between a forester and a checker. A "forester" generally has a professional designation, like an accountant or lawyer, and that is "RPF" for Register Professional Forester (I think). There may also be other grades, just like accountants can be CA's or CGA's or CMA's.

A "checker" may have forestry-related educational training, but has not achieved the level of RPF. A checker may also be someone with no previous experience in the industry, although that is probably rare.

A "forester" might work for "Forestry" (ie. the provincial government department) or might work for a mill.

That barely touches the surface of this topic.


Moving on to whether or not a forester would ever fail a block intentionally to save money, I guess that the possibility is there. However, I would think that it would be a LOT lower than the chance of a checker doing the same thing. First, RPF's are professionals and are required to meet certain professional standards. Secondly, if we are talking about someone who is working for "forestry" (ie. BCTS), then they probably don't worry a whole lot about saving the government a few thousand dollars on a block. It just doesn't make a big difference. Yes, they would worry about meeting their budgets, but putting a block in at less than full payment isn't going to make a big difference in their budgets.


That's just my take, although I've occasionally wondered the exact same question when working for small, independent mills, where the money would make a difference.

NotdaChecker can probably comment in much more depth.

[NotdaChecker]

Wow so many good questions right off the bat! I'm excited.

So a little more about myself. Like I said, I work on the coast of BC, so I can really only speak to this region of Canada for the most part. I work for a large licensee and I am a Registered Forest Technologist (RFT) with the Association of British Columbia Forest Professionals (ABCFP). My responsibilities are Site Plan development (Information on what a site plan is : http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/code/training/ ... nning.html ); Silviculture operations which include things such as planting, brushing, tree protection, etc; silviculture surveys which include regeneration surveys, free to grow surveys, green up, etc. I also do secondary jobs, like work on the company safety program, S-100 instructor, and other boring tasks.

Pay is all over the board for forest professionals. Here is a salary survey from 2006. Pay increases with responsibility.

http://www.abcfp.ca/publications_forms/ ... sm_002.pdf

I am not a checker.... hence the name Notdachecker. I do my own checking and contract supervision. It is not a formal assessment and I have only given one fine ever!!! It was for planting 9's in an areas where I was looking for 4's or 5's. Most checkers that Interior planters are familiar with have little to no training. It's not rocket science to throw a plot. Most checkers are contracted by clients. There are also contract checkers that are RPF's or RFT's. Usually pay plots are done by someone who has training in silviculture surveys. I feel your pain, I know some good checkers and some really bad ones. But the same is said for planters as well!!!

I usuallly manage 150k to 500k of trees per contract and only 1 or 2 contracts a year. Smaller projects.

I have not planted many trees. ALL my trees must live and it is painstaking watching me plant. Forest Professionals make bad tree planters. If it makes you feel any better I am planting 1600 some day next week... Plus every tree I plant takes away from you, the planter. I have done lots in the forest industry; from brushing to spraying to pruning to firefighting.

Sorry if these seems a little rushed... thats because it is!

I will come back later and clean it up a little.

[NotdaChecker]

I forgot to answer Outlanders question.

Yes failing your block to save money is plausible. Is it really done? I doubt it and if it did really happen I doubt it happens very often. It doesn't really make sense why someone would do it. The forester would have to blatantly lie about the issue. It's not like you can sway the survey in the favour of that company.

Here is a copy of the pay plot manual http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/isb/forms/lib/FS704A.PDF

You will notice of page 43 that there is reference guide that show Planting Quality % vs Pay %.

You would have to plant around the 85% quality mark to even potentially lose 10% of your contract price. 85% percent is pretty bad.

If you had a block with 1000 sph and 40 ha... so 40,000 tree block @ $0.70 a tree. So the block cost $28,000 to plant. You pull of a horrid 85% PQ and lose 10% thats $2800.... Do you really think a forester would go out of his way and put his career on the line to save the company 10%... not likely.

Plus 85% quality means you messed up 4200 stems throughout that block... thats a lot of trees in one block.

Checkers don't care about the forestry company or the planting company.... They are paid per plot and the less faults they find the faster their job is. Mind you that may mean they aren't recording an accurate tree count either. They have no incentive to screw over the planting company.

If you think the pay plots are done incorrectly get an unbiased professional to survey it again... maybe have a look first yourself to see if you really didn't mess it up.

Supervisors are responsible for planting quality at the end of the day, its their responsibility to ensure everyone is planting on par. If you have a good supervisor you should never fail a block... Unless you have some sort of tree Nazi.

[outlander]

Thank you for the reply,

Good answer too. I also remember doing a camp wide replant to avoid a pay deduction. So if this is how the camp responds to a failed block it really eliminates any benefit at all to faling a block for cost saving.

[Nate]

Do you guys sleep standing up, or in coffins? I've always been curious.

[FCC]

..........................

[Richianity]

Thanks for taking the time to post NotDa. Very interesting to hear it from the mill's perspective.

[NotdaChecker]

Do you guys sleep standing up, or in coffins? I've always been curious.

Your first mistake is that you think we sleep. I like to stand over all of you while you sleep and every now then breathe my hot moist breath on your neck, waking you from your slumber and then disappear into the darkness.

I actaully haven't worked this type of job for very long. This is my fifth year and loving every minute of it. I came from the fire side of things.

I don't work for a mill either. Most Coastal licensees aren't attached to the mill. We have mills, but I have never even seen them before.

[Richianity]

I guess I'm using 'mill' generically as 'the other side'. Didn't mean to insult

[NotdaChecker]

Not insult... thats why I am here, just to clear things up.

[dusty]

I just graduated from UBC with a BSc. in Forestry, can I have a job?

[Scooter]

I just graduated from UBC with a BSc. in Forestry, can I have a job?

Smartest question yet.

[NotdaChecker]

It is a good question... too bad I am going to follow it up with a dumb question. Did you apply to lots this year? If so, who? Maybe I can help you find something for this summer. Just PM me. Unfortunately all our positions are full this year.

There is one thing I did notice about the training you received from UBC. You are a Natural Resources Conservation student are you not? So you do not a have Bachelor of Science in Forestry (B.S.F.), you have a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) in Natural Resources Conservation. The reason you do not have a job today is because UBC screwed you over and gave you a degree that the forest industry does not want. Bet they didn't tell you that when you where applying.

I went through a fair amount of resume's this winter. The majority of the UBC applicants where conservation students. Every cover letter had high hopes for doing high level plans and saving the world. For the most part managers just skipped over those students. Our summer student program is a huge recruitment tool for us. A large portion of staff today came from the summer student program. So if you can't write the RPF or RFT exam you get passed by for the most part. Had your resume said B.S.F. Grad in resource management looking to get your feet wet in operational forestry, I bet we would be having a different conversation.

Your not completely SOL, you can go back and do one to two terms and get a B.S.F. if you so wish.

Here is some general information for those looking at getting into professional forestry.

We want to see that you are not going to curl up into the fetal position and starting crying the moment we leave them alone in the forest. Usually some sort of venturing outside of vancouver some day is a good idea. Seriously we are looking for someone who is interested in the outdoors and has had a job that is more physically demanding then then just flipping meat at Fat Burgers. Tree planting would be one!!! construction, farming, fire fighting, etc...

Technologist diploma is desired training. A B.S.F. grad with a tech diploma will have jobs raining on them!!! Companies like technologists because their training is very hands on and they have a pretty good idea of what the industry is like prior to showing up for the first job. No e-mails asking what caulk boots are is always a good sign. But I am biased. I look at it this way. Diplomas are two years and if you don't like forestry then get out at the end. If you do like it, take another 2 to 3 years to get your degree.

[dusty]

I really appreciate the reply. You are correct, I was in the natural resource conservation program and have a BSc., not a B.S.F. I have not however applied for any forestry specific jobs this year, as I will be treeplanting again. On that note, do you have any recommendations when applying for a job for an NRC student such as myself, a student that UBC failed to inform was virtually unemployable in the field? As for another one or two semesters at UBC, I have had my fill (for the time being at least), and would rather the hands on experience associated with technical forestry and not grandiose plans of saving the world from the brink of ecological collapse.

[Greg M.]

I have had my fill (for the time being at least), and would rather the hands on experience associated with technical forestry and not grandiose plans of saving the world from the brink of ecological collapse.

Good choice Dusty.

[Duncan]

Checkers don't care about the forestry company or the planting company.... They are paid per plot and the less faults they find the faster their job is. Mind you that may mean they aren't recording an accurate tree count either. They have no incentive to screw over the planting company.

If you think the pay plots are done incorrectly get an unbiased professional to survey it again... maybe have a look first yourself to see if you really didn't mess it up.

Supervisors are responsible for planting quality at the end of the day, its their responsibility to ensure everyone is planting on par. If you have a good supervisor you should never fail a block... Unless you have some sort of tree Nazi.

just a little baffled by some of your post...
are checkers (or 3rd party contractors who are there to administer the quality between client and contractor) do they not also have a contract, not always based on plots, but area and man days, not 100 % sure but i know that not all checkers are signed up for per plot pay, maybe they are for you. Why not give them x amount which is what they will get anyways and give them the same % for any extra work they may have to do.

And they are supposed to be "an unbiased professional" but if you need another do to some argument it usually ends up the worse for the treeplanting contractor, the 3rd party has to go by the book or contract.

And the "supervisor"
- usually the supervisor has nothing to do with the quality on the block unless its a small company or the company labels the supervisors as foreman, checkers etc, but nevertheless whatever the term for those contracting management on site, how would a tree nazi ever fail a block?
Most people would think they would never fail a block because they've incinerated all bad treeplanters
Don't ya think?

[NotdaChecker]

just a little baffled by some of your post...
are checkers (or 3rd party contractors who are there to administer the quality between client and contractor) do they not also have a contract, not always based on plots, but area and man days, not 100 % sure but i know that not all checkers are signed up for per plot pay, maybe they are for you. Why not give them x amount which is what they will get anyways and give them the same % for any extra work they may have to do.

Contractors who do planting quality assessments have a contract with the licensee. Just the same as a planting contractor. You can pay planters how ever you want. I have seen per tree, per hectare, and man days. The most common is per tree or in this case per plot. Plots and area based payment are also pretty much the same as you usually do 1 plot per hectare.

I do my own checking. I am payed by salary... not per plot. BUT I am also very much the person RESPONSIBLE for that silviculture liability, where as a checker is not. Again difference between checker and forester.

And they are supposed to be "an unbiased professional" but if you need another do to some argument it usually ends up the worse for the treeplanting contractor, the 3rd party has to go by the book or contract.

1) Not all checkers are professionals
2) The the 3rd party surveyor should have NO knowledge of the issues at hand or was hired by the planting company and therefore, would have an accurate account of what really happened in that block.
3)Checkers should be using contract standards and proper surveying techniques already. If you are worried about what the outcome of a 'proper' survey is, maybe you shouldn't be bitching about the relaxed version.

And the "supervisor"
- usually the supervisor has nothing to do with the quality on the block unless its a small company or the company labels the supervisors as foreman, checkers etc,

I completely disagree with you. Supervisors are 100% responsible for the quality of each and every block. Just as I am 100% responsible to the MFR to ensure the province is receiving satisfactory restocked blocks. Planters are responsible to foreman's, foreman's are responsible to supervisors, supervisors are responsible to the client, the client (licensee) is responsible to the MFR, and the MFR is responsible to the public.
If you ever want to test to see who is really in charge; God forbid, just a have fatality and just see who gets taken to task on that. $5 says its your supervisor and me in handcuffs.

but nevertheless whatever the term for those contracting management on site, how would a tree nazi ever fail a block? Most people would think they would never fail a block because they've incinerated all bad treeplanters
Don't ya think?

No, the Nazi's had both labour and concentration camps. Beside's I was comparing the tree nazi to a character more like the soup nazi. No Soup for you!

Sorry for the delay... it's still planting season on the coast.

[NotdaChecker]

I have had my fill (for the time being at least), and would rather the hands on experience associated with technical forestry and not grandiose plans of saving the world from the brink of ecological collapse.

Good choice Dusty.

Why do you think that is a good choice? It's like saying to a contestant on 'The Biggest Loser' that "it's ok; you have done a lot of exercise for today. Here's a donut!"

School sucks! Just finish it now, before you get sucked into the vortex.

[Scooter]

I'd agree about Supervisors vs. Quality. If a block fails, ultimately, I'm the one who is held responsible.

[staema]

hello people,
my question is if its possible to plant trees "under the table" or do other jobs in forestry the same way ?

peace

[Scooter]

It's pretty rare. Almost never for a real company. Very, very occasionally for a private job for an individual on their own land, but that would represent a tiny, tiny fraction of the work out there.

[SwampDonkey]

Am I the only forester that has waded into this thread? :D I've worked in BC myself once upon a time on the north coast, no that isn't Vancouver Island. ;) I was there during a hiring boom, followed by a hard crash during the Forest Practices Codes saga. Although, I was FIT at the time, I was unable to complete my study for the RPF exam before I had to move out of province for greener pastures. Got lots of experience, good and bad on my tenure. Cruised lots of big timber, laid out harvest blocks, assessed gullies, residue and waste surveys, produced maps and helped write PHSP's from field data.

As per topic, I can only offer a perspective on tree planting for private woodlot owners. I have been a silviculture manager for one of our NB regional forest products marketing boards, administering a government funded silviculture program.

Oh, and I only failed a couple blocks, not enough trees or poor quality was the case. I never fail a planting block for too many trees. I will if it's thinning though. But your off the hook, I'm not in that position any longer. We are thinning ground now that is supposed to be plantation, but it's 99 % naturals. So there ya go, I'm not the only one. ;D

[NotdaChecker]

It's pretty rare. Almost never for a real company. Very, very occasionally for a private job for an individual on their own land, but that would represent a tiny, tiny fraction of the work out there.

That's my thoughts... anything can be under the table.. Just ask Micheal Jacksons doctor.

[RPF]

I went through a fair amount of resume's this winter. The majority of the UBC applicants where conservation students. Every cover letter had high hopes for doing high level plans and saving the world. For the most part managers just skipped over those students. Our summer student program is a huge recruitment tool for us. A large portion of staff today came from the summer student program. So if you can't write the RPF or RFT exam you get passed by for the most part. Had your resume said B.S.F. Grad in resource management looking to get your feet wet in operational forestry, I bet we would be having a different conversation.

I found out recently that part of the problem is that most (all?) of the Co-op students at UBC are from the Natural Resource Conservation program at UBC. I also learned (to my dismay) that Co-op students are given preferential treatment in terms of receiving hiring information from companies posted at UBC and that students not registered with Co-op are generally excluded from that information. Hence the high proportion of resumes from conservation students. I'm not sure why this policy is in place, but I think that companies are missing out on the opportunity to reach other (possibly more suited?) students for summer jobs.

We had one student this year from the conservation program who at the start of the summer was "going to save our forests, etc.." By the end of the summer, that student, after being exposed to all aspects of managing forests (planning, harvesting, replanting, etc), had decided to switch to the resource management program at UBC.

I remember my time at UBC 25+ years ago and I think we were much more prepared to enter the workforce immediately than most of these kids are now. I'm not sure what changed or why, but many of the students coming out of UBC now are not as prepared to enter the workforce as readily as those coming from other institutions such as University of Northern BC, or University of New Brunswick (both schools where we generally recruit quite heavily).

On another note, I just want to add to this discussion about Foresters. I've been an RPF going on 25 years and can proudly say that most of that time has been spent outside in the forests (I leave much of the desk work to others). I spent two summers planting trees, fought numerous forest fires, conducted thousands of hectares of surveys, developed site plans for thousands of other hectares, been involved in research, etc - you name it and I've probably done it (and still am).

Also, as a forester, when I'm checking planting quality, I call it like I see it. If it's good I'll pass that onto the crew and conversely if it's crap they'll know that too. I'm not pressured by the company I work for to find fault so we can save a few bucks. The company justs wants to know that each seedling we plant will survive and grow so that we can chop it down in about 60 years.

[dusty]

It is true about the forestry co-op program at UBC. Co-op students are given first grabs at job opportunities that come in and I think it may due in part to the fact that faculty career advisor, the man running the co-op program, only has (or uses) the email addresses for students in the co-op program so all other students are left out of the loop. It may also be in part that co-op students are required to pay a fee to be a part of the program (can’t recall how much). So perhaps the faculty gives them entitlement for being a part of the program and paying their fees. The career advisor also made it sound as though employers highly preffered students in the co-op program rather than not. I wouldn't necessarily consider this the case. I was in the co-op program and left it because I felt I could just as easily find opportunity on my own, which was completely true.

Also, very few job postings are distributed through the faculty email list and any that are, are more akin to internship positions with NGO’s, conservation societies etc. Each year, the faculty holds a career fair where many of the major players (Interfor, Canfor, West Fraser, BCTS, etc) come in and set up a booth, trying to recruit students. I think it is there where many students have a very good shot at landing a job, even without being in the co-op program. The fair is somewhat of an informal interview process where students can hand out resumes and chat with foresters. Also, the faculty has its own section on monster.ca where employers post jobs and all students can access it.

I recently graduated out of the NRC program, and in hindsight, I should have went for Forest Resource Managment (FRM) instead. It has been slow going with the many resumes I have sent out with the NRC program on them (i.e. an offer at $135/day doing, direct quote: “bottom of the ladder grunt work”).

Those three magical letters, R – P – F, are worth their weight it seems.

[SwampDonkey]

There hasn't been much hiring of foresters back east here for a long time, in fact most companies and government have cut and slashed for 25 years. If one government position turns up, probably 500 are chasing it. I remember one government position being advertised for a few weeks and then when it came down to it the job was tossed out. I imagine it was eaten up internally by shuffling someone somewhere else.

[RPF]

It is true about the forestry co-op program at UBC. Co-op students are given first grabs at job opportunities that come in and I think it may due in part to the fact that faculty career advisor, the man running the co-op program, only has (or uses) the email addresses for students in the co-op program so all other students are left out of the loop. It may also be in part that co-op students are required to pay a fee to be a part of the program (can’t recall how much). So perhaps the faculty gives them entitlement for being a part of the program and paying their fees. The career advisor also made it sound as though employers highly preffered students in the co-op program rather than not. I wouldn't necessarily consider this the case. I was in the co-op program and left it because I felt I could just as easily find opportunity on my own, which was completely true.

Also, very few job postings are distributed through the faculty email list and any that are, are more akin to internship positions with NGO’s, conservation societies etc. Each year, the faculty holds a career fair where many of the major players (Interfor, Canfor, West Fraser, BCTS, etc) come in and set up a booth, trying to recruit students. I think it is there where many students have a very good shot at landing a job, even without being in the co-op program. The fair it is somewhat of an informal interview process where students can hand out resumes and chat with foresters. Also, the faculty has its own section on monster.ca where employers post jobs and all students can access it.

I recently graduated out of the NRC program, and in hindsight, I should have went for Forest Resource Managment (FRM) instead. It has been slow going with the many resumes I have sent out with the NRC program on them (i.e. an offer at $135/day doing, direct quote: “bottom of the ladder grunt work”).

Those three magical letters, R – P – F, are worth their weight it seems.

Thanks for providing some insight into this program - it makes sense now why we only get resumes from a select group, although I still don't agree with it. Has the co-op program always required an extra fee? or is this something relatively recent?

[dusty]

Thanks for providing some insight into this program - it makes sense now why we only get resumes from a select group, although I still don't agree with it. Has the co-op program always required an extra fee? or is this something relatively recent?

I think it has had required the fee for some time. When I was in the program it was about 4 years ago in my first year and luckily I got out before paying it. I think the fee also covers the cost of the workshops that students must complete as part of the program. Stuff like resume/cover letter writing, assessing personal strengths and weaknesses yadda yadda, all of which we the students agreed was quite tedious. The only foreseeable benefit of sitting through it all being the access to the pool of employers (unless you can't write a resume or cover letter...).

[SwampDonkey]

That was all part of the core course load when I took forestry, including technical report writing. We had a "forestry form and format" that was followed most strictly.

[Scooter]

resume/cover letter writing

Agreed, this is quite tedious. Unfortunately, a fair number of people could benefit from this sort of stuff.

I had a job application once that went as follows:
Q: "Do you participate in any extracurricular activities."
A: "No, but I would if any became available."

WTF?

I'd say that half of the resumes and job applications that I have seen have been done decently, and half should have been proof-read and tweaked by a career counselor. There is nothing that makes me throw a job application in the garbage faster than finding four or five serious mistakes on the main page, and references to activities from grade six or seven. Yet about thirty percent of my tree planting and bar applicants did exactly that.

[Gual]

Hey Notdachecker- I have a few questions about breaking into the business.

When starting off as a trainee forester do you think its better to specialize in one field (like sticking to silviculture if you are already familiar with it), or try to generalize as much as possible (get into harvesting, road building etc)?

What does your company in particular pay its summer students? Is it about industry average?

Do all summer students with one year of a technical diploma get paid the same? i.e. I'll have a year of college by the summer but I also have five years planting/bush work/ FSR driving experience and a bunch of certificates (OFA Level 3, DTA, Class 4, Pesticide tickets)- would I get paid anymore then a 18 year old fresh out of the city or would my experience just make me more likely to get hired?

Thanks

[RPF]

Hey Notdachecker- I have a few questions about breaking into the business.

When starting off as a trainee forester do you think its better to specialize in one field (like sticking to silviculture if you are already familiar with it), or try to generalize as much as possible (get into harvesting, road building etc)?

What does your company in particular pay its summer students? Is it about industry average?

Do all summer students with one year of a technical diploma get paid the same? i.e. I'll have a year of college by the summer but I also have five years planting/bush work/ FSR driving experience and a bunch of certificates (OFA Level 3, DTA, Class 4, Pesticide tickets)- would I get paid anymore then a 18 year old fresh out of the city or would my experience just make me more likely to get hired?

Thanks

If you don't mind, I'd like to answer some of your questions:
From my own experience I would suggest exploring all your options early on (silv, harvesting, planning, etc) and figure out what you enjoy most. Once you've tried your hand at being a "generalist" you can then specialize on a certain aspect. This is what I did and I think it really helps when working within a team environment. I've worked with people who had just specialized in one aspect from the get go, and it's tough communication with them if they haven't seen all aspects. The folks I'm thinking of have "tunnel vision" and can't really comprehend how their actions affect another aspect of forestry. Since I've worked and have experience in most aspects of the industry I like to think I have a good grasp of how my actions affect another, and vice versa. This I feel has made me a better all round forester.

Regarding salaries: I think it's very dependent on the employer - some value formal education more than experience, and other employers value experience more.

[NotdaChecker]

Hey Notdachecker- I have a few questions about breaking into the business.

When starting off as a trainee forester do you think its better to specialize in one field (like sticking to silviculture if you are already familiar with it), or try to generalize as much as possible (get into harvesting, road building etc)?

What does your company in particular pay its summer students? Is it about industry average?

Do all summer students with one year of a technical diploma get paid the same? i.e. I'll have a year of college by the summer but I also have five years planting/bush work/ FSR driving experience and a bunch of certificates (OFA Level 3, DTA, Class 4, Pesticide tickets)- would I get paid anymore then a 18 year old fresh out of the city or would my experience just make me more likely to get hired?

Thanks

If you don't mind, I'd like to answer some of your questions:
From my own experience I would suggest exploring all your options early on (silv, harvesting, planning, etc) and figure out what you enjoy most. Once you've tried your hand at being a "generalist" you can then specialize on a certain aspect. This is what I did and I think it really helps when working within a team environment. I've worked with people who had just specialized in one aspect from the get go, and it's tough communication with them if they haven't seen all aspects. The folks I'm thinking of have "tunnel vision" and can't really comprehend how their actions affect another aspect of forestry. Since I've worked and have experience in most aspects of the industry I like to think I have a good grasp of how my actions affect another, and vice versa. This I feel has made me a better all round forester.

Regarding salaries: I think it's very dependent on the employer - some value formal education more than experience, and other employers value experience more.

RPF took the words out of my mouth. Summer student pay, at my company, is the same no matter what qualifications you have. Returning students are paid a little more each year. Experience plays a huge role in the hiring phase... bush experience is critical!!! We have seen many mama's girls/boys run crying after the first couple weeks.

Interfor is currently hiring 2011 summer students (which is pretty quick)... Companies are coming out swinging this year me thinks.

[Greg M.]

I concur with the above, there are a shit tonne of summer positions available from SK to the island. Take your pick, mention planting, and you should get plenty of interest...

[mwainwright]

Here's a question for the forester: Where can i find good information on seed collection for coastal lodgepole pine, and for non-serotinous pine cones in general?
Also, how strongly does fire select for serotiny in a stand of Plc?

[salbrecher]

Contact the Surrey Seed Centre (http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hti/treeseedce ... erview.htm). They will answer any questions you have about collections. They are passionate about what they do and are great to deal with.

[mwainwright]

Thanks for the info, I'll do that.

[chrisdunn]

Great thread.

I'd like to see the road deactivation/pulling culverts done after the blocks are planted. I know it's cheaper to do it when the loggers are there, but it creates a hazard for us. Like being a barrier to first aid.

I realize benefits for deactivating, like culverts not there to get plugged and the water bars allowing runoff to not do more damage.

That being said, I think the planting industry would be safer and more cost efficient if we had better access.

[Pandion]

I was wondering how free to grow requirements work on government contracts, like BCTS or FFT. Does the government fine itself for not reaching free to grow targets? Seems unlikely, so what is the incentive to have successful plantations?

[salbrecher]

BCTS is treated like any other licensee in regards to meeting Free Growing and meeting any other legal requirements and is not outside of the regulatory process. The Forest Practices Board did an audit in 2015 of BCTS practices if you are curious to see how they fared. The FPB also treats BCTS the same as other licensees in regards to meeting legal obligations. https://www.bcfpb.ca/sites/default/file ... liwack.pdf

I did a search of "BCTS" on the FPB page and there are over 10 pages of results. I assume you will find some non-compliance issues in there if you want some dirt. https://www.bcfpb.ca/search/node/BCTS/

[loosebroose]

Ok, so I've grilled many a forester on this question. Nobody has been able to give me an answer (I think its because a lot of the foresters that deal with planters may be new to the industry, or maybe are just ill informed).
But here it is...
Red Rot? I've planted contracts where red rot is the ideal microsite.. People have told me it produces a healthy tree. Ten I've also been on contracts where the forester has literally come onto the block and told that he had made a mistake and that red rot is no longer an acceptable planting medium. Finally contracts that from the get go had maintained that red rot is a no go.
Personally I like planting it (duh, it's freakin cream). But i also am invested in a trees life, so I would like to think what I plant grows.
I get that it may be a location/climate thing, but I did a contract with Dynamic this summer that old us red rot was terrible - a planting sin even. Meanwhile Coast Range was working down the road from us on many blocks (this is in Kamloops/Barriere) and they maintained that BCTS said red rot is a great medium.
I want t end this constant debate I have with myself in my head during every f*cking day of planting.

[fluffer]

My non-forester opinion is to not give much credibility to CR related statements regarding quality.

[Rage]

You will never be able to get a straight yes or no answer on the red rot question. Because, not all red rot is the same, not all tree species are the same, and every cutblock or area you are planting in may have different climatic and geographic conditions.

[Scooter]

It's sort of like some of these questions:

1. "How close do we plant to slash piles?" In some areas, the foresters will say to stay 3-5m away from the piles, so the seedlings don't burn when the piles are burned the next winter. In other places, it's so hard to light the piles that the foresters will say that you can plant within inches.

2. "How close should we plant to the roads?" In some areas, they bring heavy equipment in for road reclamation and the equipment pulls the berms back onto the road so it can't be used anymore. In those cases, the foresters will often say to stay at least 4-5m away from the ditch. In other areas, where roads aren't being reclaimed, the foresters will say to plant to within a foot or so of the road edge, and to do a line of trees along the road at double-density to act as a more effective visual barrier, hiding the block once the trees start to grow.

There are more, but I am tired.

[Mike]

I'm under the impression that red-rot holds moisture poorly, and in areas that are too wet, that is excellent, and in areas that are too dry, that is terrible, and that this is the reason for the variance.