"Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." - NMScooter wrote:Maybe we should consult with Mr. Machiavelli ...
Good advice for running a crew.
"Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." - NMScooter wrote:Maybe we should consult with Mr. Machiavelli ...
"Ma condescendance n'avait point reconnu tant de prééminence (My condescension never recognized such superiority)" -Voltaire"Such is the nature of men, that howsoever they may acknowledge many others to be more witty, or more eloquent, or more learned; yet they will hardly believe there be many so wise as themselves." ~Hobbes
I take back my understanding contribution to this post earlier. anyone who buys into the defense of management after multiple warnings deserves it for not paying attention. There is a reason myself, the hamster and others who have worked for Outland in several different camps slag on this company day in and out. because there is no slander, I will say this, Outland managed to exploit me in every way imaginable. some of the vehicles are dangerously unsafe (El crumino being an example of a crummy that should not be on the road). Dangerously unsafe work is forced on people. . They screw up payment, will only advance you money and not pay throughout the season, often times no advance was waiting for us, stuck in town relying on visa or the generosity of friends, and they promote people who tow the company line rather then being complete planters. I've been put in several comprimising situations with the supervisors full knowledge. heres an impressive stat, I think every Outland checker that I've worked with has gotten a job because they were sleeping with management, fucking ladder climbers. TO ALL ROOKIES, AVOID LIKE THE FUCKING PLAGUE. guess why people who work for outland have never worked for someone else??
and tupper, I'm not gonna engage you again on this, we know how you feel, replant.ca knows how you feel, and you've been quite eloquent on the pro-Outland side.we also know your a deliverer and have a limited career as a planter. your opinion is yours regardless. but this was a rookie looking for honest advice, and I feel I misled him because of my last post. That and my mistrust for Outland management runs far deeper then you could possibly imagine.
My rant turned out to be much longer then expected, but Outland makes my blood boil
I and a few others should definitely keep that one in mind... and wikipedia's encyclopedic reliability!TheHamsterizer wrote:You guys and your quotes.... I can use wikipedia too, you know.
"It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
I agree with this, and Glantz will run you into the ground But go for it, you'll make some money and Glantz is an amazing planter and can teach you the ropes.the_dude wrote:sorry, I should clarify, by treating rookies well I mean not treating them like worm shit, your the lowest on the ladder, but Outland doesn't care about it. That being said, don't let your guard down. Know when bullshit is going on, and familiarize yourself with Alberta labour laws, so you can not deal with their shit, I wish I had (see previous posts for explicit details re: Outland).
You have got to be kidding me, how did you get to that conclusion... You may get a planter to fear you for one season, but they won't come back to you the next. That and a shitty work environment = shitty numbers.Nate wrote:"Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." - NMScooter wrote:Maybe we should consult with Mr. Machiavelli ...
Good advice for running a crew.
I'd agree with this choice, but I have a hard time trusting pricks with my money. I warn anyone going into that system to beware of the sleight of hand stuff, and stand up for themselves when management tries to fuck them around.Scooter wrote:Planters come back to foremen who make them money. I had to make a choice once between two foremen. Once was a great guy to hang out with, party with, fun and relaxed and it would have been an awesome time. The other was a bit of a prick, but worked his ass off to make sure that we made money.
I chose the latter.
I hate those kinds of foremen. I don't need to make more money than I feel like making, and I don't need to feel guilty about just cruising sometimes. I'll take a day-rate foreman over a commissioned one most of the time. In my first couple of seasons though it helped to have a hard ass foreman, just to ingrain the work ethic. But now that I have a plethora of chronic injuries in various states of aggravation I reserve the right to take it easy sometimes. I've seen keener foremen work their crews into the ground before, and that's no way to run a crew.Scooter wrote:The thing is though that the "prick" foreman wasn't trying to make our jobs harder. He enforced quality, and made us work our asses off. If we felt like being lazy, he tore a strip off us. But he certainly tried to make sure that we made more, whether it was by making our jobs easier, making us work on days that we didn't feel like it, teaching us tricks to improve our efficiency, or whatever.
I see what you mean now, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'prick'. What I read there sounds like someone I'd want as my boss.Scooter wrote:The thing is though that the "prick" foreman wasn't trying to make our jobs harder. He enforced quality, and made us work our asses off. If we felt like being lazy, he tore a strip off us. But he certainly tried to make sure that we made more, whether it was by making our jobs easier, making us work on days that we didn't feel like it, teaching us tricks to improve our efficiency, or whatever.
I planted for outland 807 for two seasons, starting in 2010. The food budget seemed a little inconsistent from season to season. My only real issues with the food were when our cook got poached by the company to go work in a firebase and was replaced by someone inexperienced, and when my crew was put in the same situation on a special mission contract(also the time when drinking water supplies were inadequate) Not that I would say this is a common occurrence here. For the NB stuff, I am also going from hearsay and pictures, as I never planted there either year (I wisened up and bailed to another company in Alberta after Outland pushed back the start date for the second time). I am confident though from what I have heard and seen that the 2011 NB plant's "7.5 cent creamy trenches" that were described to us in June turned out to be 7 cent assorted kife. These trees also all come in "cow bells" or clip on trays of ~75 that you are discouraged from just dumping into your bags, if I am not mistaken. Percentage of seedlings automatically factored in as culls. Not to say you can't make money, but it does seem to be a very different style of planting.sandface wrote: I agree with your comment for the most part. Our prices have dropped (significantly) since my first year, and we have yet to see a recovery. There are rumours they will be on the up this year, but we seem to be the last contract in the country that's finalized so I'm not banking on it until it's proven. This is a clear deterring factor for vets and has increasingly pushed them away from our contract over the last 3 seasons. And yes, our shower facilities have been a little less than ideal (In my experience I only know of maybe 2 or 3 planters who actually have desired a shower during the shift, I'm not sure a higher grade would really change that).
I can't say that I've ever had an issue with the quality or quantity of food though, and from those who went East last season (including great friends of mine), the land comparative to Ontario was clear and easy. A friend who crew bossed said furrows were straight to the back and planters didn't have to flag their pieces, just plant a line in. However this is all hearsay; I had prior commitments and couldn't go out.
Maybe it's just a die-hard company love and loyalty inside me, and perhaps that the idea of returning to the same group of great people every year has stopped me from experiencing the greener pastures of different Ontario companies or the West (excluding one month in Alberta) - But I've never had a bad time on this contract and always come out with some pretty decent cash.
That's a really interesting question. I wish that I could comment knowledgeably. The only thought that I have is that we saw a lot of comments in the A&M thread about a year ago, before the 2012 season started, relating to how that company was allegedly trying to remake itself and fix a lot of practices that employees disliked. Was that to stem the outflow of experienced planters from Ontario to western Canada, or was that simply an effort to clean house which related to a specific important management figure who wanted to see a better-run organization? I do know of one other company (PRT) where management had acknowledged that the westward outflow was something that they were concerned about, but I don't know exactly the question that PlantingTaders is considering: are companies trying to improve to counter the westward flow of planters, or are they better off putting their energy into trying to adjust their business models to facilitate ongoing operations with a more inexperienced workforce?Will the migration of planters westwards force a positive change in conditions here, or will it merely add to the cycle of exploiting ignorant rookies and lowering wages? Perhaps Scooter or another knowledgeable person can provide some insight here.
I respect you deeply for posting coherent information. Any person that lambasts you for trying to help others on the grounds of you being a "whistle-blower" is someone who probably benefits from an exploitative system that only exists and succeeds due to lack of transparency.I don’t want to be a whistle-blowing dink and cause problems for my friends who are planting and managing in this camp, but I also want my friends to be able to work for the wages and under the conditions they are entitled to by law and labour market conditions.
not surprising at Outland.Nate wrote:21 planters over 5k, that's some crazy numbers.
JUNE 1, 2015 - OUTLAND ACQUIRED BY CARILLION CANADA
Carillion Canada Inc. (“Carillion”) a wholly owned subsidiary of Carillion PLC, has announced its acquisition of 100 per cent of the share capital of Outland.
Carillion is one of Canada's leading integrated support services companies, with extensive construction capabilities, a substantial portfolio of Public Private Partnership projects and a sector-leading ability to deliver sustainable solutions.
Carillion employs approximately 2,500 people in Canada and 40,000 worldwide, with established businesses in the United Kingdom, the Middle East and the Caribbean, and has an annual revenue of more than $1 billion in Canada and nearly $7.5 billion globally.
Outland is a leading provider of a complete range of remote site services, including accommodation, camp management, catering, maintenance, housekeeping and tree planting to public and private sector customers across a wide range of industries, such as mining, utilities, forestry, oil and gas. Since their start in 1985, Outland has maintained a strong position in growth markets.
As of the end of May, Carillion Canada has acquired the existing senior management team, led by Simon Landy, David O'Connor and Jeff Taylor, who were also the major shareholders in Outland, will join Carillion and remain with the business.
Commenting, one of the Outland founders, Simon Landy, said: "This agreement should open up some exciting opportunities for our staff and employees. From our start as a tree planting company, Outland has enjoyed great success and evolved steadily over the past 30 years. Joining forces with Carillion should allow us to continue to grow well into the future. Carillion's expertise in a wide range of areas will be a valuable resource for the Outland team and our customers."
The acquisition complements the existing skills and capabilities of Carillion's support services business in Canada and enhances our prospects for growth, in line with our strategy of further accelerating the development and growth of our support services activities for clients across Canada.
Commenting, Carillion Canada President and Chief Executive Officer, Simon Buttery, said: "This investment in Outland is an important strategic step in Carillion's growth and development, and their culture and capability are an excellent fit with our organization. Outland brings complementary skills and knowledge and extends opportunities for growth in new markets across Canada. We are pleased to welcome Outland's 1,400 employees to the Carillion team."
The mayor of The Pas says the town was shocked to learn its main employer, Tolko Industries, is closing down.
The forestry products company employs 332 people in The Pas, a town of about 5,500 people.
All Tolko employees will be laid off when operations end Dec. 2, 2016.
"It's just so shocking, so unbelievable, so mind-numbing that we've got to wrap our heads around it," said The Pas Mayor Jim Scott.
The forestry products company, Tolko Industries, is leaving Manitoba. The company is the main employer in The Pas, Man. (CBC)
In a statement Monday, the Vernon, B.C.-based company said it's tried for 19 years to improve the cost structure of its Manitoba operations but in the end, the mill is "not financially sustainable."
The provincial government said it is disappointed with Tolko's decision and will work with the company's employees to "ensure that necessary supports are in place."
"Fortunately we have until December to co-ordinate the provision of labour adjustment services, and our government will also be actively monitoring Tolko's future obligations respecting transition package arrangements," said Cliff Cullen, Manitoba's minister of growth, enterprise and trade in a news release.
The Pas' mayor said the company ran into trouble transporting goods out of The Pas, which is about 520 kilometres northwest of Winnipeg.
Tolko said it was a myriad of issues that lead to the company's decision to end its operations in Manitoba.
Jim Baskerville, Tolko vice president, said the company incurred prohibitive transportation costs bringing wood chips and logs to the mill.
"Folks that know northern Manitoba understand the landscape here. There's a lot of water, a lot of swamp, and so you have to quite far afield to access the timber we need to bring into the plant," said Baskerville.
Energy costs for the mill were also expensive as a cheaper source of energy, natural gas, was not available to the company in The Pas, Baskerville said.
Tolko took over Manitoba Kraft Paper and Sawmill Operations in The Pas in 1997.
Tolko president and CEO Brad Thorlakson said the closing had nothing to do with the people of The Pas.
"We have valued our time in The Pas and have great respect for the community and our employees who have been with us on every step of this journey. We understand that this will be a very difficult time for them and the community, but we cannot continue to sustain the losses at the operation," Thorlakson said.
The Pas' mayor said the loss of hundreds of direct jobs and many more indirect jobs will be a "hard pill to swallow" for the town.
Scott said he would not engage in "doom and gloom" thinking and will speak with other levels of government about softening the economic blow.
"I'm going to find a way to help our community. We are so fortunate," Scott said.
"We are very fortunate in The Pas that we have a more diversified economy. We have our health care and education, which create a lot of employment. We have some of the highest yields of farm land in the country here."
Opposition New Democrats are calling on the Manitoba government to "act quickly to protect good jobs and build an economy."
"The closure of the mills will be incredibly stressful for families who will have a tough time making ends meet without a regular income. It will also hurt many other local businesses and undermine the economic future of the entire region," said NDP MLA Amanda Lathlin in a news release.
The Pas Mayor Jim Scott said Tolko had difficulty getting its products to market. (CBC)
Unifor, the union which represents most of the employees, said Tolko offered good, high-paying jobs.
"The employees tend to be people who were born and raised in the area. There's a lot of skilled labour in that plant. A lot of people got jobs there because this was their home. This is a huge blow," said national representative Paul McKie.
The Tories said development in the north is a priority for the government.
"We will be launching a targeted program in the months ahead, emphasizing the attraction of new companies, the development of entrepreneurial opportunities and the expansion of existing businesses," said Minister Cullen.
From http://fortune.com/2018/01/15/what-you- ... ion-giant/On Monday, Carillion, the U.K.’s second-largest construction company, announced that it would go into compulsory liquidation.
A last-ditch effort to secure a deal with the U.K. government and the company’s bank lenders failed over the weekend. The collapse raises fears for the jobs and pensions of the 43,000 people employed by the company worldwide as well as questions over what will become of the 450 projects the U.K. government has employed the company to carry out.