Coastal vs Interior

[Scooter]

I was going to add this to another post I just made in the bid results thread, but I decided to put it into its own thread, because I might want to delete this entire thread after a few days. Let's see what the responses are first, and give the regular users an opportunity to log in and think about it.

Something that I've been thinking about quite a bit recently is the divide between coastal and interior planters. A higher percentage of the existing coastal planters post here regularly compared to interior planters. There may be a higher absolute number of interior posters here posting regularly (I can't be sure), but that's to be expected, when the industry has about 20 times the number of interior planters compared to coastal (rough guess, it might be a bit lower). But the point is that this board has a disproportionately high number of crusty old coastal vets.

In general, coastal vets are likely to disparage Interior planters. Sometimes I think this is warranted, sometimes not so much. Certainly, there are a lot of positive aspects to coastal work: people with far more experience, more maturity, a more relaxed pace, slightly shorter work days, and a motel room to dry out in at night, for starters.

On one front, I'm not sure that a common perception is accurate: where prices are the best. Prices are higher on the coast, but that is because the land is harder. Are prices "better" on the coast? I don't think there is an absolute answer to that. I've talked with a dozen people in the past few weeks about this very topic. My thought right now is that for some people, prices are better on the coast, and for some, prices are better in the Interior. Generalizations are dangerous, but I think in general, for an older planter (30+) with lots of experience, coastal prices are better than Interior. The coast rewards "smart" planters more than the Interior does, and doesn't reward pure athleticism as much as the Interior does (don't bark and say that it doesn't matter if you're in shape on the coast, because obviously it does - I'm talking relative importance, and if you don't understand that, read about David Ricardo's economic work on wine and wool in Portugal and England). The Interior is better suited to planters who can just put their head down and pound, and being smart about how to approach a piece is less important. So essentially, I think that coastal prices are better for experienced/older planters, and Interior prices are better for vets with three or four years of experience, and who are in their early twenties and can just sprint all day.

Anyway, all those thoughts are not the point I'm trying to make. They're my perception, and there will be exceptions to the rule. My point is not to start a thread about "which area is better?"

My point is that all the people saying that "coastal planting is better than Interior" need to put that opinion into context, because for some people, coastal planting is NOT better than Interior planting.

Why does this matter? Well, it doesn't to me. But I want to point something out. The availability of information on this message board about coastal planting has led to a lot of interest among Interior planters who hear about this magic place where the money is far better. What does this do? It makes some of them want to try coastal planting.

Do those of you who are coastal vets WANT hundreds of Interior planters to know about your secret little world? Do you want a surge in availability of labour for coastal contracts? I would argue that interest has already started to increase in the past few years, and is going to continue to get stronger if people keep constantly saying that the coast is better. What happens when a large chunk of labour moves into an area? I'll tell you what happens: wages drop.

There has been a lot of bitching on the board here about how certain companies have "ruined" the coast recently. Names like Osprey, Brinkman, and Coast Range come to mind (I'm not criticizing these companies, I'm just saying that these are some of the companies that have been named by coastal planters as leading the race to the bottom in coastal pricing, whether or not that perception is accurate). Do all the coastal planters out there WANT these companies to have a large and ready supply of labour willing to try out the coast, because planters have heard that the money is good?

Perhaps I'm over-estimating the reach of this message board. And perhaps I'm over-estimating the potential for labour oversupply influencing prices downward. I honestly don't know. But I do know that some of the smart coastal vets have been pretty careful about not naming the companies that they work for.

I would suggest that for coastal vets, it might be smart to be a bit more discrete about making the coast seem like a sunny paradise compared to the Interior. Yes, despite the fact that Replant is intended for planters to share information, I'm suggesting that some information should not be shared on Replant. If coastal planters talked a lot less about the benefits of the coast, it won't hurt the companies that treat their planters really well; but it might eventually make it harder for other companies to put in low-ball bids, assuming that they can easily hire based on the reputation that "the coast is awesome." I mean, seriously, there are at least two "coastal" companies I know of that have been putting job ads up on Craigslist and Kijiji. What the fuck? Don't spread the word that the coast is a great place to plant, because those companies will find it easier to find planters who have a few years of experience in the Interior, and your small elite awesome companies will have to start dropping their prices to compete.

I will probably delete this thread in a week or so, once a bunch of people have had some time to think about it. No point leaving it up for tons of people to read in the future.

[Coaster]

I don't know what cloud you're floating above Scooter. To suggest that the coast is better than the interior is proof of a tendency towards masochism. Sure it's early work, but as I sit here waiting for the snow to melt I wonder once again what I'm doing here. I suppose it must be the thrill of risking my life on slash laden cliffs or perhaps the challenge of keeping my hardhat on as gale force winds whip rain into my face. Oh yeah, like you said, it's so much more interesting and challenging trying to figure out how to avoid that monster pile of slash without dead ending myself. Then again I guess maybe it's the camaraderie that comes with wearing the same uniform as all my buddies, the orange hardhat, the hi-vis vest, the stinky raingear.

As to the idea that prices may be better on the coast, I really can't figure that one. We've all seen coast prices tumble dramatically over the last few years with a yet to be proven resurgence supposed to be happening this year...believe it when I see it. If you're lucky enough to crack one of the elite crews you may be able to make top dollar, but that's just as likely if not more so in the interior. There is already an oversupply of coast planters and hordes more knocking on the door of this mythical kingdom. Don't fool yourselves, Valhalla it ain't. If you can avoid getting impaled on green slash, work through the cold induced tendo and while away the snow delay days, you've at least got the start of the peculiar sort of masochism Scooter seems to have come down with and just what every coast planter needs to keep them getting up in the dark every morning.

[backcountrysister]

Coaster! hahaha! I love it! I have always preferred the coast over the interior but with the priced dropping, seeing those 450 dollar days seem to have faded! long gone are the days of consistent decent prices for the glory of enduring cold frozen ground, rain blasting from all directions including up your rain pants leg!
I will always enjoy the comradery of planters but , as I am getting older- the coast & interior have both equally positives & negatives. I still love a great contract out of home over motel & where prices are lower - along with the slash! But I also love the steep climb of the coast & the ease of the shovel! so...all in all..different but the same..Meh!

[clay]

Do those of you who are coastal vets WANT hundreds of Interior planters to know about your secret little world? Do you want a surge in availability of labour for coastal contracts? I would argue that interest has already started to increase in the past few years, and is going to continue to get stronger if people keep constantly saying that the coast is better. What happens when a large chunk of labour moves into an area? I'll tell you what happens: wages drop.

***newsflash***

THIS ALREADY HAPPENED!!!

in the last ten years coastal prices have plummeted by percentages far greater than the price-drops in the interior. 30+ cents used to be common... then quarters became more normal... then the low-twenties became the threshold... there was a brief time there when it seemed no contractor would dare pay less than .18, but from what i hear even those days are long gone...

and, yes, it was (for the most part), interior companies with interior planters who initiated this downward spiral. HOWEVER, reputable coastal companies, with a good coastal workforce ended up taking part in the price-slashing, rather than waiting it out. good quality work for fair prices was the only card the good coastal companies had to play, but instead they joined the race to the bottom. now good quality on the coast is as hard to find as fair prices on the coast.

i used to plant as much as i possibly could on the wet 'n' wild west coast.... loved it. haven't bothered with spring work for the last three years, 'cuz it's a total shit show out there....

let's face it, there are very few good shows out there at all these days. and the last remaining good contracts are still surviving by virtue of owners who care to pay fairly enough to keep their crews intact. geography doesn't come into play so much anymore.

[Screefhead]

I don't think too many people are under the illusion that the coast is where the best money is made. The only real advantage of coastal planting is that it gives you an extra 35 - 70 days of work. Its pretty much impossible to get a 100+ day season anymore unless you do the coast.

I've worked for a few vet heavy crews and almost without exception planters did much better on the interior contracts. Tree prices were almost the same, yet the coastal blocks were far slashier .

Its also debatable whether the interior rookie mills have had any effect whatsoever on coastal prices. (Other than maybe Celtics short stint on the island). Long time coastal outfits like BrinkMart, Osprey and Evergreen have done more to drive down prices than anyone.

[Greg]

The money in the interior is now, strictly on average, better.
Obviously if you want days, you need to hit the coast.
Planting on the coast is more of a challenge and more enjoyable for a seasoned vet.
Are there any ten+ year planters would rather bend over 4000 times in a dirty trench rather than hit 750 stumps, 1500 times on the side of a mountain? The problem is that to plant the 4000 on a trench was starting to pay more than the 1500 on the side of a mountain. Instead of bringing the coastal prices back up, the industry is now dropping the trench price too. It has resulted in a vicious downhill spiral. Anybody can plant that trench. It is a very special skill to plant that mountain side.

[Timberjack]

I agree with what everyone stated above.We all know that the prices are being driven down by certain companies and it is getting harder to make a decent wage.I always said that anyone can plant the mainland but it takes a special breed to pound the hillsides of the coast. :)