2013 Public Bid Results

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:08 am

zilla wrote:
Evergreen wrote:Scooter - answers to your questions;

1) Refunded because we took their other job and we don't have a 2nd camp to do the other job. Mitigating circumstances.

2) Yes Zanzibar passed. MOF Clearwater at 52 cents sounds lovely.

Does that mean Evergreen took this job?

Yes we took it. It's not the big screef job. That's the BCTS job out of Clearwater

JAYTEE · Post by **JAYTEE** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:11 pm

from the people I know at apex, they said they had a similar contract to the "IFS Prince George job in Mackenzie, FFT" last year, and although the walkins sucked, they loved the contract and every one did pretty well, perhaps they were/still are banking on similar results...

Angkorwat · Post by **Angkorwat** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:46 pm

BCTS Sunshine Coast

1 Fieldstone Resources Ltd. 247,596.16
2 Rainforest Silviculture Services Ltd. 282,950.29
3 Osprey Silviculture Operations Ltd. 190,177.34
4 Impact Reforestation Ltd. 249,665.64
5 Leader Silviculture Ltd. 296,128.78
6 Brinkman & Associates Reforestation Ltd. 250,813.88
7 Evergreen Forest Services Ltd. 248,285.81

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/ftp/tsg/extern ... 202012.pdf

....and then there was a company called Osprey

this contract has gone to Fieldstone....Zanzi is keeping the Chilli/Squamish

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:36 pm

BCTS Port McNeill
PL13THF223
727,000 trees

$691,922.68 - Bivouac
$735,098.10 - Brinkman

That's it just 2 bids on this complicated boat, barge and helicopter coastal inlet job

Zab · Post by **Zab** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:43 pm

Angkorwat wrote:BCTS Sunshine Coast
this contract has gone to Fieldstone

Pretty happy about that. I worked on this one last year, at least on the Theo and Powell River portions. Big hurdle was the commute from Powell to Theo, the truck to boat to barged-in truck nears 2 hours. That being said, people made good coin, 21.5 for the small stock to 23.5 for the 512s..at 16 cents this would have killed my will to live.

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Pretty happy about that. I worked on this one last year, at least on the Theo and Powell River portions. Big hurdle was the commute from Powell to Theo, the truck to boat to barged-in truck nears 2 hours. That being said, people made good coin, 21.5 for the small stock to 23.5 for the 512s..at 16 cents this would have killed my will to live.

What's up with the .5 on the coast? I thought it was ridiculous up North. I wish Osprey would have taken that one, it could have helped to bring about their demise.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:32 pm

I believe that was a Brinkman show last year. That would explain the .5. Brinkman by the way has been LOW balling the hell out of the private sector on the coast as of late.

RPF · Post by **RPF** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:53 am

Evergreen wrote:BCTS Port McNeill
PL13THF223
727,000 trees

$691,922.68 - Bivouac
$735,098.10 - Brinkman

That's it just 2 bids on this complicated boat, barge and helicopter coastal inlet job

WOW. Low bid works out to approx $0.95/seedling. Not knowing the specifics, does this price make sense? Has BCTS accepted this bid?

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:29 am

it is exceedingly rare for BCTS NOT to accept a bid. no matter how low it may seem. can anyone on here think of a recent example refuting this? i couldnt comment on bivouac's price, as i know they've done similar jobs for seemingly lower prices, and they're still in business. it's possible they have a cost structure that allows for a lower bid to retain an acceptable profit margin.

newb · Post by **newb** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:43 pm

RPF wrote:
Evergreen wrote:BCTS Port McNeill
PL13THF223
727,000 trees

$691,922.68 - Bivouac
$735,098.10 - Brinkman

That's it just 2 bids on this complicated boat, barge and helicopter coastal inlet job
WOW. Low bid works out to approx $0.95/seedling. Not knowing the specifics, does this price make sense? Has BCTS accepted this bid?

I believe that there were five or so contractors that were interested in this job. But, Bivouac and Brinkman were the only ones with the specific experience to qualify. Bivouac has a fairly small crew (12 or so) and a lot of experience working on similar contracts. They should do fine.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:47 pm

I'm not sure what u guys are getting at with regards to this bid ? This seems to be a relatively close bid at roughly 6% spread. Bivouac has left more on the table in this area in the past, and less.

As to the 95 cent bid, its hard to say weather that is appropriate. This job involves multiple barge in scenarios with no infrastructure at the job site, helicopters, quads, crewboats etc. etc. Bivouac may be combining this with the other jobs they have in the area, they are the local guys here. Some would say .95 is low for a job this complicated but how can you tell unless you actually build a bid ?

For what its worth it seems Bivy pays they're guys well (so says the rumor mill). This keeps coming up throughout this site with regards to many bids. It's not about the bid necessarily, but what the planters get paid ! He might be looking to extend the season for his planters, not to line his own pockets.

BCTS does not turn down low bids ! Unless someone disagrees...I'd love to hear about it, it'd be nice if some BCTS office would set a precedent and say no way to a bid that is not reasonable.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:12 pm

mwainwright wrote:it is exceedingly rare for BCTS NOT to accept a bid. no matter how low it may seem. can anyone on here think of a recent example refuting this? i couldnt comment on bivouac's price, as i know they've done similar jobs for seemingly lower prices, and they're still in business. it's possible they have a cost structure that allows for a lower bid to retain an acceptable profit margin.

There are many structures that allow companies to be more or less competitive. I think the big difference is weather there is an owner operator system in place or more of a corporate structure.

If it is a "big" outfit with an owner in an office in Vancouver I would think that there would be less cash finding its way to the planter, say 50% MAX and likely less. So if you see a low bid from one of these corporate outfits beware !

On the other side you have the smaller guys, or some mid sized companies made up of a group of owners working together. In one of these companies you will find an owner on site acting as the supervisor. The management costs will be lower and they will be more likely to pay higher percentages to the worker. The company forms a tighter bond with the planters as they have a personal relationship.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:11 pm

i worked for bivouac several years ago, and it was quite decent. they paid a few cents more than the other companies in the area, at the time, and i remember there being very little cause for complaint. the owner wasn't onsite supervising everyday, but he certainly doesn't foot the bill for an office in vancouver. im sure his planters will be happy working the job in question.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:38 pm

newb wrote:
RPF wrote:
Evergreen wrote:BCTS Port McNeill
PL13THF223
727,000 trees

$691,922.68 - Bivouac
$735,098.10 - Brinkman

That's it just 2 bids on this complicated boat, barge and helicopter coastal inlet job
WOW. Low bid works out to approx $0.95/seedling. Not knowing the specifics, does this price make sense? Has BCTS accepted this bid?
I believe that there were five or so contractors that were interested in this job. But, Bivouac and Brinkman were the only ones with the specific experience to qualify. Bivouac has a fairly small crew (12 or so) and a lot of experience working on similar contracts. They should do fine.

I didn't read the specifics of eligibility, What were the qualifiers that disqualified the others ?

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:20 am

BCTS has refused low bids in the past if they haven't qualified. I'm thinking BCTS Williams Lake West/East last year, NGR through down a low bid that got disqualified if I recall correctly.

I think BCTS often puts conditions on it's larger contracts; "must have completed X trees in this area over the last X" years or something like that? Scooter or Evergreen can probably be more specific here.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:29 pm

Mike wrote:BCTS has refused low bids in the past if they haven't qualified. I'm thinking BCTS Williams Lake West/East last year, NGR through down a low bid that got disqualified if I recall correctly.

I think BCTS often puts conditions on it's larger contracts; "must have completed X trees in this area over the last X" years or something like that? Scooter or Evergreen can probably be more specific here.

You're correct Mike about the conditions - but these conditions are spelled out up front so unless the contractor can't read, they will know they can't satisfy the prerequisits and won't bother wasting time viewing and bidding. BCTS has little or no discretion when awarding bids. It doesn't seem to matter how much lower a contractor is - evidenced by the Khaira fiasco and many others. If an established contractor with good references says they can do the work for their price, then for the most part the governments hands are tied.

With the recent BCTS Sunshine Coast bid where Osprey was 30% lower than anyone else, they would have been awarded the work had they insisted they could do it. Osprey may be a lot of things but they are not stupid and recognized that they had made a mistake. We have seen other bids including the one by Hybrid currently being discussed in the hiring thread, that appear to be very low relative to others. Hybrid's owner had a plausible explanation as to why it may not be the nasty lowball bid it seems to be.

Here's a list of some higher percentages left on the table on bids for 2012. Some may have been losers but I'd guess the Fieldstone one turned out just fine. Scooter may be able to shed light on the Folflore bids that seemd so low.

15% low - Brinkman Sunshine Coast
17% low - Brinkman South Island
19% low - Fieldstone Fraser Valley
24% low - Folklore Vanderhoof
16% low - Folklore Prince George
18% low - Dynamic McKenzie

For 2013

20% low - Brinkman Golden
26% low - Nata Prince George

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:40 pm

For the two Folklore jobs mentioned above, I didn't work on the Vanderhoof stuff this year so I don't know much about it. But I did talk to the supervisor who ran that job and he said his guys made a killing, lots of $400 days. I did part of the BCTS PG job and the prices there seemed to be ok. However, it was in the first two weeks of the season so I can't say that it was a good time to really assess it since we were doing shorter days and people were just warming up. But it still hurts when we see that we've left money on the table.

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:26 pm

The Fieldstone Fraser Valley contract was mostly a very good contract for its planters. Unfortunately for them , Zanzibar now has the work there.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Scooter wrote:For the two Folklore jobs mentioned above, I didn't work on the Vanderhoof stuff this year so I don't know much about it. But I did talk to the supervisor who ran that job and he said his guys made a killing, lots of $400 days. I did part of the BCTS PG job and the prices there seemed to be ok. However, it was in the first two weeks of the season so I can't say that it was a good time to really assess it since we were doing shorter days and people were just warming up. But it still hurts when we see that we've left money on the table.

Above is another example of the open and honest approach some posters see as lacking from contractors on these forums. Whereas it makes sense for Scooter to post info that Folklore's apparently low bids were in fact "killings", it might be better for Folklore to leave the impression for their competition that those jobs were in fact underbid. I dare say that you don't hear from many contractors on these forums because they prefer to keep their cards closer to their chests.

It would serve the planting community well if planters would share both positive and negative pricing experiences here on these forums. The contractors might not like it much either way. News of bonanzas might bring the pack down on certain areas. At least it might help to keep us all "honest".

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:31 pm

Dynamic in Mackenzie was one of the worst I've worked in my career. Overall not reflective of the company but as a stand alone job terribly under priced (even after the prices started to rise). Surprised to see them so hungry for it again, but summer trees seem to do that to contractors.

Again, not trying to slag them, I think most of they're work is lucrative. I've had similar experiences in Mackenzie in the past...not sure why I keep going back ? Alberta seems the better Summer option.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:00 am

Dynamic in Mackenzie was one of the worst I've worked in my career.

Dynamic in Mackenzie was the worst of their season, and better money than anything I saw at Folklore in 2011, for comparison. Scooter will say 2011 was worse than 2010 or 2012, for comparison. Shawnigan...you one of the Evergreener, or the A&G pair that's now on my Facebook? Different perspectives...

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:23 am

Yeah, I guess different perspectives.

As others have said "work in the area that suits your style". What did you like about the contract ? I saw a lot of .12 centers in heavy brush, devils club and consistent knee high slash load. It was pretty comparable to Fall coastal planting where I'd be getting .22 +. Some serious walk in's with little compensation.

Perhaps you fared better ?

Ryl · Post by **Ryl** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:30 pm

So if I understand correctly, as a freckle faced newbie looking for his first contract, I should be looking at the companies that have the best $.00 to sheer volume ratio on their contracts, correct?

At least things are looking better this year in places.

Screefhead · Post by **Screefhead** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Bid price will only tell part of the story.

For example smaller companies like Hybrid 17, Corsair and others will pay out a far higher percentage of bid price to their planters than companies with bloated management such as Brinkman, Summit, NGR and others.

Of course, very few contractors are willing to disclose what percentage of bid price they pay to the planter. Generally though, the bigger the company, the lower the % bid price paid .

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:34 pm

The best I've seen is generally around 54-56%. For bigger companies with more overhead, expect as low as 44%. That's my general understanding.

Of course, if you're looking at a contract with significant extraordinary overhead (helicopters, barges), you need to take that cost out of the bid price before you look at the percentage.

Example:
A coastal company bids $0.95 cents per tree on a contract and is paying $0.22 average. Does this mean that they are only paying about 21% to the planter? I guess you could say that, but it would be misleading. Maybe that 95 cents needs to include 52 cents per tree budgeted for barge and helicopter. If so, after the extraordinary logistical component, you have 43 cents bid price remaining, which means that if they are paying 22 cents average, they're paying out about 52% to the planters.

This is something that I don't think people always understand in the bid threads. They'll see a company that appears to only be paying 30% or 35% to the planter, but are neglecting to factor in helicopter costs.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:19 am

As others have said "work in the area that suits your style". What did you like about the contract ? I saw a lot of .12 centers in heavy brush, devils club and consistent knee high slash load.

I'll write about it when I do my traditional company reviews --- but when I averaged the money for that contract, it performed not-awfully.

Rainman · Post by **Rainman** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:05 pm

BCTS South Island

The proposed contract is to plant 15 different sites consisting of approximately 303 ha with approximately 424,200 seedlings. The location of each planting site is shown on an overview map, a detailed location map, and a SP map included in the tender package. The proposed contract also includes Tree Protector Installation of 50,890 Cw trees.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/ftp/TSG/extern ... 202013.pdf

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:26 pm

Not in PDF format:

BCTS South Island: 424200 trees.

BD: 226,385 --- 53.4 cents per tree.
Evergreen: 250,593 --- 59.1 cents per tree
Celtic: 296,924 --- 70 cents per tree
Leader: 301,647 --- 71.1 cents per tree
Zanzibar: 306,250 --- 72.2 cents per tree
Impact: 378,691 --- 89.3 cents per tree

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:21 pm

they must not have looked at the stock sizes, almost half the trees are 512 and 615, plus the protectors, hopefully this will kill BD for good

Zab · Post by **Zab** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:30 pm

sorry, tree protectors? Does that just mean cones or vexars?

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:32 pm

BCTS - South Island

The 47,068 protectors are sinocast cones with 5 foot stakes - 5,523 are heli access.
The trees are 2/3 512s & 615s
There were actually 399,420 trees on the tender of which 36,820 are heli.

BD should not qualify to do this job based on the tender documents but this is the same Campbell River office that awarded the Powell River job to Khaira a couple of years ago.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:50 pm

I guess it would be better if some other contractor raised a stink about it?

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:29 am

Campbell River Natural Resource District,
East Coast & Thurlow Island

1 Leader Silviculture Ltd. 485,466.53
2 Fieldstone Resources Ltd. 491,534.06
3 Evergreen Forest Services Ltd. 413,502.78
709,000 seedlings, ±6,000 wire cage tree protectors, ±51,420 sinocast tree
protectors over ±34 blocks) in Various Locations within the Campbell River Natural
Resource District, including East Coast Vancouver Island and East Thurlow Island

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:33 pm

mcD wrote:Campbell River Natural Resource District,
East Coast & Thurlow Island

1 Leader Silviculture Ltd. 485,466.53
2 Fieldstone Resources Ltd. 491,534.06
3 Evergreen Forest Services Ltd. 413,502.78
709,000 seedlings, ±6,000 wire cage tree protectors, ±51,420 sinocast tree
protectors over ±34 blocks) in Various Locations within the Campbell River Natural
Resource District, including East Coast Vancouver Island and East Thurlow Island

I guess we won't be the ones to make a stink over BD being awarded the South Island work. Obviously a conflict of interest. We're just glad they didn't bid on this one.

We are very happy with this price. Leader and Fieldstone were just throwing in high bids as they don't really want the work obviously. We already have a bunch of work around Campbell River that this fits into nicely. This should be the last public tender for the 2013 coast spring season.

The wire cages (if they get them) should be interesting. 4 1/2 feet tall with 2 - 5 ft. stakes. We're hoping a person can do 125 per day not including the tree. Planter prices range from 17 to 27. The crew is full.

Best of luck to everyone for spring 2013.

retrovertigo · Post by **retrovertigo** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:45 pm

I did a special mission day's worth of those cage+stake things, about 4 years ago. Actually working for you guys Evergreen, in Powell River. Myself & one other guy did ... I think about 180 that day, but we were done by 3:00 or so, and we planted the trees first in the morning. So yeah 120 in a full day sounds about right.

mwainwright · Post by **mwainwright** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:21 pm

i happen to know that the BCTS office here in queen charlotte has several palettes of brand new cages that they're sending down to campbell river. enjoy!

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:46 pm

that does seam like a respectable price. Can BD actually be awarded BCTS contracts after the problems of 2 seasons ago? pretty sure they are not welcome in the Boundary or Kootenay Lake?

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:53 pm

mcD wrote:that does seam like a respectable price. Can BD actually be awarded BCTS contracts after the problems of 2 seasons ago? pretty sure they are not welcome in the Boundary or Kootenay Lake?

Or Clearwater...or soon South Island ?

jdtesluk · Post by **jdtesluk** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:45 pm

Evergreen wrote:

The wire cages (if they get them) should be interesting. 4 1/2 feet tall with 2 - 5 ft. stakes. We're hoping a person can do 125 per day not including the tree. Planter prices range from 17 to 27. The crew is full.

Best of luck to everyone for spring 2013.

Pay attention to ergonomics on these suckers. Planters may choose to use either their shovels or a small hammer to pound the stakes. Generally the shovel is a poor tool for hammering as it lacks the mass to get the job done. In contrast, small hammers are more effective but the greater mass equates with greater force on the wrist and arm. Even a hundred or so of those cages turns into a lot of stress on the arms. Good for planters to give it some thought in advance and be warned of the impacts associated with a new motion.

Don't use rocks to pound stakes- it only ends in tears. Should be some scenic boat rides (assuming you can see through the rain :)

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:20 pm

60,000 protectors is many 5-ton trucks full of heavy stuff. They are hard on everyone. There's a lot of hauling and setting up for the foremen.
We use wood handled rubber mallets on the stakes. People seem to like that the best.
I'm glad to hear that the price seems fair.
BCTS likes to plant cedar along the edges of the timber and along creeks, so these cones and cages will appear as borders and slashes through the blocks. In a few years they'll/we'll take them off the trees and re-use them. And yes there is a quality system for them and fines if you're naughty, but only to the contractor of course.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:31 pm

mcD wrote:that does seam like a respectable price. Can BD actually be awarded BCTS contracts after the problems of 2 seasons ago? pretty sure they are not welcome in the Boundary or Kootenay Lake?

The rules that govern what different BCTS business areas can and may do are arcane and cloaked in secrecy. They are ever changing. While a contractor may have sorely displeased one district, there may be no communication with any other district. Non-completions in Clearwater don't necessarily disqualify one form moving somewhere else in the province and having another try. BD didn't get a non-completion in Boundary, they just needed help and BCTS was willing to pay more to buy it for them.
If a district can be convinced that a contractor can get the job done (they may not look too deeply if the price is right) then it's a go. It is public money and their mandate is to get things done as cheaply as possible.

whitepickup · Post by **whitepickup** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:26 am

We are very happy with this price. Leader and Fieldstone were just throwing in high bids as they don't really want the work obviously.

Actually Leader did want the work, but our intent was to pay the planters .23 to .30 cents.

Cheers,

Pandion · Post by **Pandion** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:38 am

We are very happy with this price. Leader and Fieldstone were just throwing in high bids as they don't really want the work obviously.
Actually Leader did want the work, but our intent was to pay the planters .23 to .30 cents.

Some companies know what it takes to attract and retain good workers others just think they do.

clay · Post by **clay** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:39 am

whitepickup, i was just about to post the very same thing...

Leader always bids high, and not just for a laugh. Kudos to them for sticking to their guns and being an example of where bids could/should be. good wages for good work.

in this particular bid, the high "lark" bids are only 6 grand apart, while the "winning" low bid is 70 grand lower than them. if two out of eight bids are way out of line higher than the rest of the pack, you can say they are just high bids thrown in on a lark for the very low possibility of getting such high-priced work dropped to them. this is 2 out of 3, and really doesn't seem to be the case here.

i'm not sure why evergreen would read it that way...

oh yeah.. they were the low bidder...

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:14 am

clay wrote:whitepickup, i was just about to post the very same thing...

Leader always bids high, and not just for a laugh. Kudos to them for sticking to their guns and being an example of where bids could/should be. good wages for good work.

in this particular bid, the high "lark" bids are only 6 grand apart, while the "winning" low bid is 70 grand lower than them. if two out of eight bids are way out of line higher than the rest of the pack, you can say they are just high bids thrown in on a lark for the very low possibility of getting such high-priced work dropped to them. this is 2 out of 3, and really doesn't seem to be the case here.

i'm not sure why evergreen would read it that way...

oh yeah.. they were the low bidder...

I read it that way because we actually viewed all of the blocks. We've been planting in this area for many years. As far as I know Leader hasn't worked over here in the flat second growth which surrounds Campbell River. They're more used to the steeper coastal ground around Squamish. Has Leader ever worked on Vancouver Island? The vast majority of trees on the east coast of the Island are planted through TimberWest, Western and Island Timberlands. Planters who are working in any of those operations will know what good price are. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

bush · Post by **bush** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:07 am

$70000 less. ^^^^

tangocharlie · Post by **tangocharlie** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:14 am

Quote from earlier Evergreen posting in this forum:

"BCTS - Golden - 526,715 trees

$179,003 - 33.98 cents - Brinkman
$215,272 - 40.87 cents - Evergreen
$221,182 - 42.00 cents - Zanzibar
$235,258 - 44.66 cents - Seneca

Brinkman is 20% lower than the second place bidder. Thank heavens they haven't been bidding on any other government work so far this fall.

There is no bid deposit so who knows if Brinkman might drop the job? I wouldn't hold my breath.

D."

....More tiring/laughable Evergreen wordspin to follow...

Rainman · Post by **Rainman** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:47 am

From Evergreen in 2011...

$225 a day is nothing to be proud of that's for sure although we generally don't get a much higher average overall for a full season. It definitely depends on the crew and where you're working. The coast has sucked for the large part over the last few years and that has kept our average down in the $240 range for a full year. We expect coast crews to see an increase in wages for 2012 but that has yet to play out as most work hasn't been bid yet. The increase in volume for 2012 on the coast is in the 22% range. That should translate into higher wages overall.

How are things these days? Is your average experienced planter making decent money yet?

clay · Post by **clay** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:07 pm

Evergreen wrote:I read it that way because we actually viewed all of the blocks. We've been planting in this area for many years. As far as I know Leader hasn't worked over here in the flat second growth which surrounds Campbell River. They're more used to the steeper coastal ground around Squamish. Has Leader ever worked on Vancouver Island? The vast majority of trees on the east coast of the Island are planted through TimberWest, Western and Island Timberlands. Planters who are working in any of those operations will know what good price are. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

haha. i love to armchair quarterback... but armchair contracting is way more fun.

Leader is well-equipped to plant the coast, and they certainly know what good coastal prices are. No, you haven't seen them on Van isle largely because that has been the territory of the biggest price squeeze over the last 10+ years. down and down and down they've gone - you've said so yourself. Personally i try not to waste my time on vancouver island either. it's just not worth it anymore. i'm still happy to see Leader (and the few other contractors like them) continue to post high bids there, because it would sure be nice if prices were to somehow improve... (profit margins first though, right??)... at the very least high bidding reminds the industry of what prices used to be, and what they could be again.

but you're right... i didn't view the blocks. you guys did. and apparently you're not worried about the 70,000$ left on the table. neither am i, 'cause i won't be there working it. but don't say that the other two bidders obviously didn't want the work. i'm pretty sure they did, just at a better price.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:22 pm

not a lot of places where you will get $.23 - $.30 on the island. you can slag evergreen for leaving money on the table, but the fact of the matter is $.17 - .23 is what the island goes for these days. Leader wasted time even preparing a bid at the prices they submitted, and if you think they are not out there bidding low when they have to then you are mistaken.