2014 Public Bid Results

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:34 pm

Results for Williams Lake, one of the two BCTS jobs in the area ...

Contract: PL15TLE002
Number of Trees: 1,594,810
Season: Spring
Duration: 1 year

01. $500,770 - 31.4 cents - NGR
02. $581,443 - 36.5 cents - Celtic
03. $609,234 - 38.2 cents - Dynamic
04. $624,616 - 39.2 cents - Coast Range
05. $676,447 - 42.4 cents - Fieldstone
06. $690,426 - 43.3 cents - Seneca
07. $712,051 - 44.6 cents - Blue Collar

This is the contract that my own camp did last year. I think our bid on this last year was around 37.6 cents per tree.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:28 pm

This job dropped six cents in one year?

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:02 pm

No Folklore bid on the job this year Scooter? I met ya briefly off of the Farwell Canyon road last year.
Has NGR done work in the area before?
I'm curious as to what the breakdown on those 1.6+ MIL are.
I thought we were expecting an industry wide price increase in 2014? Doesn't seem like it from these early BCTS bids.

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:39 pm

My camp got slaughtered in Williams Lake last spring. That is a job that you need to do with a camp of vets only. I had a bunch of rookies mixed in last year, and it didn't go so well. NGR has done work there before, so they should know what they're getting into. Although maybe they didn't know how badly we did last year. There's also another factor that might have come into play ... I think there was a bunch of helicopter work on this job that needed to be factored into the bid. My guess is that NGR has decided to do it mostly by ground (walk planters, fly trees). Who knows though. Maybe they just decided it looks easier than everyone else thought.

Here are the results for another Williams Lake job ... I think the DCC code in the contract designator means that it's one of the two FFT jobs, but I'll confirm that next week.

Contract: PL15DCC001
Number of Trees: 1,419,325
Season: Spring
Duration: 1 Year

01. $598,283 - 42.2 cents - Corsair
02. $602,535 - 42.5 cents - Dynamic
03. $606,832 - 42.8 cents - Fieldstone
04. $659,652 - 46.5 cents - NGR
05. $705,181 - 49.7 cents - Brinkman
06. $732,135 - 51.6 cents - Coast Range

Looks like Corsair is set to become a big player.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:57 pm

Here's a third job in Williams Lake, this one is the other BCTS job ...

Contract: PL15TLE001
Number of Trees: 955,000
Duration: 1 year
Season: Spring

01. $387,569 - 40.6 cents - NGR
02. $442,648 - 46.4 cents - Seneca
03. $447,196 - 46.8 cents - Dynamic

Brinkman and Blue Collar were disqualified for some reason. This job included a bit of helicopter.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:05 pm

Results for BCTS Golden ...

Contract: PL15TKR003
Number of Trees: 452,575

01. $148,797 - 32.9 cents - Rhino
02. $170,308 - 37.6 cents - Evergreen
03. $187,973 - 41.6 cents - Celtic
04. $208,528 - 46.1 cents - Zanzibar
05. $229,777 - 50.8 cents - Brinkman
06. $240,250 - 53.1 cents - Integrity
07. $248,916 - 55.0 cents - Corsair
08. $258,764 - 57.2 cents - Seneca

Dynamic was disqualified on this one.

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:49 pm

Scooter wrote:Results for BCTS Golden ...

01. $148,797 - 32.9 cents - Rhino

Hmm, Rhino is venturing further south now? Not to mention a pretty big underbid.

retrovertigo · Post by **retrovertigo** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:51 pm

Rhino's gonna shit the bed at that price. The Evergreen bid is lower than they would normally do I bet, but I think I know which of their supervisors that is (he generally bids lower than the rest).

I'm guessing the realistic bid is probably somewhere in between Celtic and Zanzibar.

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 pm

Results for another BCTS contract in Quesnel ...

Contract: PL15TLH004
Number of Trees: 1,254,452
Duration: 1 year
Season: Spring

01. $365,659 - 29.1 - Torrent
02. $375,610 - 29.9 - Coast Range
03. $375,745 - 30.0 - AKD
04. $412,895 - 32.9 - Apex
05. $420,120 - 33.4 - Celtic
06. $423,266 - 33.7 - Folklore
07. $450,565 - 35.9 - Seneca
08. $487,981 - 38.9 - NGR
09. $505,611 - 40.3 - Brinkman

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:11 pm

The last one that I know of in Williams Lake ...

Contract: PL15DCC002
Number of Trees: 1,672,695
Season: Spring 2014
Duration: 1 year

1. $ 557,007 - 33.3 cents - NGR
2. $ 697,616 - 41.7 cents - Fieldstone
3. $ 725,944 - 43.4 cents - Apex
4. $ 741,545 - 44.3 cents - Folklore
5. $ 753,649 - 45.1 cents - Brinkman
6. $ 769,345 - 46.0 cents - Celtic
7. $ 798,434 - 47.7 cents - Zanzibar
8. $ 903,696 - 54.0 cents - Seneca
9. $1,037,071 - 62.0 cents - Torrent

I find it interesting that when I do the math on these bids, dividing the bid price out by the number of trees to get the average bid price per tree on the contract, the numbers sometimes hint at a story hidden between-the-lines.

Normally, when a company bids on a contract, they come up with a specific price for each individual block. That price is multiplied by the prescribed number of trees on the block, to come up with a bid price for the block. The block bid prices are then all added up, to come up with the grand total. So in other words, when I'm posting a bid price per tree here, it's a weighted average price for the contract as a whole. None of the block necessarily has to be the same price as the overall average.

Usually, because of these weighted average numbers, the actual bid price on any particular job has a large number of digits past the decimal point. For example, the top four bids on this one, if I hadn't rounded to a tenth of a cent, would have been:

0.33299974
0.41706109
0.433996634
0.443323499
0.450559725
0.459943385
0.477333883
0.540263467
0.62000006

When a bid price then comes out to be almost exactly a number to the tenth of a cent, it makes one wonder if the company actually viewed every block and tried to put together a serious bid, or perhaps decided not to make the effort, and just came up with a random number and set every block on the contract to that price.

For example, $0.333 x 1,672,695 = $557,007.40 The actual bid price on the attached PDF, to the exact cent, was $557,007.43. Interesting.
And also, $0.62 x 1,672,596 = $1,073,071.00 The actual bid price on the attached PDF, to the exact cent, was $1,073,070.90. Again, very close.

One might wonder if two of the companies listed above merely guessed at a good average bid price that they wanted to throw in, rather than spending a lot of time on the bid.

In the case of one bidder, it was an outlier on the high side of the data. Presumably that company has enough work already that they aren't really seriously looking for more work. Good call.

In the case of the other bidder, the forester is probably wondering if the company really understands what the ground is like.

But what's $140,000 left on the table when most of us just do the job for the good of the environment?

(Statistically speaking, I should point out that it IS possible for this to be just a fluke, in that a random weighted average merely happened to be close enough to a number rounded to a tenth of a cent to appear to be an across-the-board bid. However, despite the fact that there are two bids that appear to be "rounded" bids in this single tender opening, I've only seen one other obvious one in the past three years, and that other one was correct to the penny rather than being off by a few cents).

Post by **Scooter** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:38 pm

And down south, at BCTS Sunshine Coast ...

Contract: PL14TCC039
Number of Trees: 297,000 including 122,000 boat/barge and some heli access

1. $144,741 - 48.7 cents - Osprey
2. $160,848 - 54.2 cents - Evergreen
3. $161,401 - 54.3 cents - Fieldstone
4. $174,814 - 58.9 cents - Impact
5. $190,172 - 64.0 cents - Brinkman
6. $196,830 - 66.4 cents - Rainforest
7. $237,904 - 80.1 cents - Leader

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:34 pm

Wow, NGR has only left $270,000 on the table over three bids in Williams Lake!

Post by **Scooter** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:29 pm

I was thinking about the rounding errors today, which don’t seem to support the bid price being an exact across-the-board number. Let me explain how it is possible for these rounding errors to occur.

If a company was to pick a bid price down to the tenth of a cent (three decimal places on the dollar), and you multiply that bid price by any number of trees (which has to be a round integer, since you can’t have a prescription which includes fractions of a tree, then your total price for the block is going to be a dollar number to three decimal places.

However, when a bid sheet is filled out, the format is such that the number of trees on each block is multiplied by the price on the block, and then the math is done to come up with a dollar amount for the block. That dollar amount is then rounded to the nearest penny, ie. to two decimal places rather than three. Therefore, nine times out of ten (when the math doesn’t give you a zero in the thousandth’s place) a digit must be truncated.

When these truncated numbers are added up, they don’t necessarily add up to the exact same amount as if you added all the trees first and then multiplied the sum total by a price to three decimal places.

Example, let’s say that there are five blocks on a contract and we’re bidding 33.3 cents per tree on each:

Block 1 – 12,345 trees - $4,110.885 which on the bid sheet rounds to probably $4,110.89
Block 2 – 14,623 trees - $4,869.459 which on the bid sheet rounds to $4,869.46
Block 3 – 27,937 trees - $9,303.021 which on the bid sheet rounds to $9,303.02
Block 4 – 22,216 trees - $7,397.928 which on the bid sheet rounds to $7,397.93
Block 5 – 18,332 trees - $6,104.556 which on the bid sheet rounds to $6,104.56

These five blocks total 95,453 trees. Multiply that by 33.3 cents = $31,785.849, which rounds to $31,785.85 total.

Yet if you add the five dollar amounts for the total per block from the right side of the bid sheet, you’d get $31,785.86.

Divide the total on the bid sheet ($31,785.86) by the number of trees (95,453) and you get a number which is almost exactly 33.3 cents per tree, but it’s a bit off by the time you get to the seventh decimal place.

On a contract with a higher number of blocks than in my example above, there is the possibility for more rounding errors to creep in. Admittedly, since some are “rounding up” and some are “rounding down” then they generally have a tendency to cancel each other out, most of the time, so you won’t usually see large variations from the target number.

I’ve attached a sample bid sheet in case anyone hasn’t seen one before. The attached PDF is from the Williams Lake FFT 002 contract, which is actually the contract discussed above.

Post by **Scooter** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:48 pm

I actually feel bad about posting this one, for an FFT job in Mackenzie ...

Contract: IFS Tender #1125020 (FFT)
Number of Trees: 1,246,120
Duration: 1 year
Season: Summer

01. $234,308 - 18.8 cents - Celtic
02. $271,998 - 21.8 cents - Dynamic
03. $298,261 - 23.9 cents - Blue Collar
04. $302,072 - 24.2 cents - Coast Range
05. $352,484 - 28.3 cents - Torrent
06. $366,244 - 29.4 cents - Apex
07. $373,051 - 29.9 cents - Folklore

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:25 pm

Scooter wrote:I actually feel bad about posting this one, for an FFT job in Mackenzie ...

Contract: IFS Tender #1125020 (FFT)
Number of Trees: 1,246,120
Duration: 1 year
Season: Summer

01. $234,308 - 18.8 cents - Celtic
02. $271,998 - 21.8 cents - Dynamic
03. $298,261 - 23.9 cents - Blue Collar
04. $302,072 - 24.2 cents - Coast Range
05. $352,484 - 28.3 cents - Torrent
06. $366,244 - 29.4 cents - Apex
07. $373,051 - 29.9 cents - Folklore

Wow. Not good.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:12 am

Looks like the stretch for summer trees is more desperate than ever. The only way these prices rise are if planters stop planting the underpriced shitty summer work. I guess there are too many students that are happy working for a few hundred bucks a day in July and August just to fill their time and not blow their spring earnings before hitting the books again. My guess is that Celtic will have an easier time hiring because they can promise 70 days of work. I wonder what the tree price will look like on a 18.8 cent bid?

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:35 am

Results for Kootenay Lake ...

Contract: PL15TFD003
Number of Trees: 714,400
Season: Spring 2014
Duration: 1 year

01. $328,280 - 46.0 cents - Fieldstone
02. $351,461 - 49.2 cents - Evergreen
03. $357,880 - 50.1 cents - A&G
04. $371,414 - 52.0 cents - Celtic
05. $401,679 - 56.2 cents - Brinkman

All trees on this contract are to be fertilized.

Cyper · Post by **Cyper** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:59 pm

Does anyone know if NGR dropped that job in Williams Lake where they left $140 large on the table? If they don't drop it i'll lose all hope for planting contractors. Not that thiers much hope anyway as prices seem to be heading south this year. That pack will never see the light, only the fight for more market share. I heard it was supposed to be a high volume year with lots of trees. Wait for a down year. It will be dogeatdog.

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:29 pm

Regarding the FFT job in Mackenzie, I think I only have one photo from that viewing. All the blocks were pretty much the same, so I didn't bother taking any more photos. There were a couple that weren't as flat as this one, but most were pretty flat. The contract will be planted in July so it'll green up a bit compared to this one, but it could be worse.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 am

Classic Mackenzie.

Post by **Scooter** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:57 am

I'm done viewing for the year, but here are a few photos that I took over the last five weeks while I was viewing:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 69fa24ac6b

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:12 pm

Has anyone heard anything about the Kootenay/Arrow bid? has it opened yet?

Post by **Scooter** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Results for the BCTS Boundary job ...

Contract: PL15TFF001
Number of Trees: 1,275,858
Season: Spring
Duration: 1 year

01. $409,786 - 32.1 cents - Rhino
02. $480,093 - 37.6 cents - Celtic
03. $494,135 - 38.7 cents - Evergreen
04. $497,689 - 39.0 cents - Greenpeaks
05. $507,412 - 39.8 cents - Timberline
06. $508,245 - 39.8 cents - Fieldstone
07. $512,288 - 40.2 cents - A&G
08. $534,335 - 41.9 cents - Brinkman

I believe that Evergreen did this job last year for 44.0 cents.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:11 pm

mcD wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Kootenay/Arrow bid? has it opened yet?

We won the BCTS Arrow bid by a hair but it was a private tender opening and the results aren't released yet.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:53 pm

In Scooter's Abscence

BCTS - 100 Mile House - approx 3.4 million trees - PL15TEG001

$1,249,167 - 36.7 - Dynamic
$1,266,979 - 37.3 - Brinkman
$1,312,385 - 38.6 - Celtic
$1,428,164 - 42.0 - Blue Collar
$1,590,362 - 46.8 - Seneca
$1,619,937 - 47.6 - Fieldstone
$1,663,359 - 48.9 - Next Gen
$1,730,823 - 50.9 - Folklore

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:27 am

Scooter wrote: I believe that Evergreen did this job last year for 44.0 cents.

What the fuck were they thinking? Bids like this are insulting at best. They have zero experience in this area and decide to underbid by such a large margin.. Is everyone taking crazy pills?

tugutil · Post by **tugutil** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:52 pm

BCTS Okanagan South: 329000 trees

1: Evergreen, $109,170; 33c
2: All-Stars, $125,728; 38c
3: Timberline, $129199; 39c
4: Raven, $134173; 41c
5: Celtic, $143090; 44c
6: Seneca, $164136; 50c
7: Corsair, $178030; 54c

Raven had this contract this year on very similar ground and ratio of straight/fill.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:10 am

Scooter wrote:Results for the BCTS Boundary job ...

Contract: PL15TFF001
Number of Trees: 1,275,858
Season: Spring
Duration: 1 year

01. $409,786 - 32.1 cents - Rhino
02. $480,093 - 37.6 cents - Celtic
03. $494,135 - 38.7 cents - Evergreen
04. $497,689 - 39.0 cents - Greenpeaks
05. $507,412 - 39.8 cents - Timberline
06. $508,245 - 39.8 cents - Fieldstone
07. $512,288 - 40.2 cents - A&G
08. $534,335 - 41.9 cents - Brinkman

I believe that Evergreen did this job last year for 44.0 cents.

Rhino was disqualified for a problem with their tender submission

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:12 am

Scooter wrote:Results for BCTS Golden ...

Contract: PL15TKR003
Number of Trees: 452,575

01. $148,797 - 32.9 cents - Rhino
02. $170,308 - 37.6 cents - Evergreen
03. $187,973 - 41.6 cents - Celtic
04. $208,528 - 46.1 cents - Zanzibar
05. $229,777 - 50.8 cents - Brinkman
06. $240,250 - 53.1 cents - Integrity
07. $248,916 - 55.0 cents - Corsair
08. $258,764 - 57.2 cents - Seneca

Dynamic was disqualified on this one.

Rhino either dropped this or was disqualified

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:57 am

tugutil wrote:BCTS Okanagan South: 329000 trees

1: Evergreen, $109,170; 33c
2: All-Stars, $125,728; 38c
3: Timberline, $129199; 39c
4: Raven, $134173; 41c
5: Celtic, $143090; 44c
6: Seneca, $164136; 50c
7: Corsair, $178030; 54c

Raven had this contract this year on very similar ground and ratio of straight/fill.

There is actually a larger proportion of fill plants this year from what I can tell. This job also requires more than one start-up as there are diverse elevations. In light of this and the percentage we left on the table, we are declining the job.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:38 pm

Evergreen wrote:
tugutil wrote:BCTS Okanagan South: 329000 trees

1: Evergreen, $109,170; 33c
2: All-Stars, $125,728; 38c
3: Timberline, $129199; 39c
4: Raven, $134173; 41c
5: Celtic, $143090; 44c
6: Seneca, $164136; 50c
7: Corsair, $178030; 54c

Raven had this contract this year on very similar ground and ratio of straight/fill.
There is actually a larger proportion of fill plants this year from what I can tell. This job also requires more than one start-up as there are diverse elevations. In light of this and the percentage we left on the table, we are declining the job.

What's the penalty for declining the job, and does this automatically go to All-Stars if they want it or will it be re-bid?

RPF · Post by **RPF** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:18 pm

Has anyone analyzed all these bid results and how do they compare overall to last year? (i.e. have prices gone up? down? remained the same?)

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:25 pm

NATE Wrote:
"What's the penalty for declining the job, and does this automatically go to All-Stars if they want it or will it be re-bid"

Answer;

They will take my first born and a pound of flesh. This will now go to All Star Silviculture if they want it. The bizarre thing about the viewing and bidding circus conducted by our government every year is that we all have to bid on 10 times as much work as we can do. Multiple tenders are sent in by each contractor each week for a couple of months. Some times we are awarded more work than we can deal with for a particular time period. Fortunately they understand this for the most part and will let you drop a job without penalty if you've been awarded other government work. Every BCTS & MOFL business office is different so it's a crap shoot.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:40 pm

BCTS - Seaward - Port McNeil
PL14THF418
568,000 Trees all fertilized

Multiple marine and air access issues. Mostly spring work but also some summer.

1) - $528,061 - .930 - Brinkman
2) - $556,179 - .979 - Fieldstone
3) - $635,770 - 1.12 - Bivouac - did the job in 2013

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:23 pm

RPF wrote:Has anyone analyzed all these bid results and how do they compare overall to last year? (i.e. have prices gone up? down? remained the same?)

There are still bids to open for interior and coastal B.C. so the numbers are not available for 2014. Here are summaries for 2012 & 2013 bids;

2013 Interior
Average Left on the Table $0.0246 $28,855.88
28 Contracts avg. contract = 1,384,404 TREES
195 Bids avg. bid = $521,149.89
avg. bid per tree $0.376
avg. winning bid per tree $0.322
2012 Interior
Average Left on the Table $0.0275 $34,959.30
31 Contracts avg. contract = 1,351,175 TREES
215 Bids avg. bid = $479,760.38
avg. bid per tree $0.355
avg. winning bid per tree $0.306
2013 Coast
Average Left on the Table $0.058 $28,803
7 Contracts avg. contract = 499,187 TREES
36 Bids avg. bid = $312,834.67
avg. bid per tree $0.627
avg. winning bid per tree $0.701
2012 Coast
Average Left on the Table $0.080 $30,843
7 Contracts avg. contract = 387,077 TREES
41 Bids avg. bid = $256,952.29
avg. bid per tree $0.664
avg. winning bid per tree $0.637

I don't claim to have all results or to know for sure which jobs went to other than the low bidder. Scooter has been helpful with info so I have an idea of some bids that moved up the ladder. Most if not all of the individual results are available on Replant.

The coast results include in almost every contract, a component of T-bags and/or protectors so the tree prices don't mean much. At some point I'll get around to adjusting for those extras.

kingcone · Post by **kingcone** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:26 pm

tugutil wrote:BCTS Okanagan South: 329000 trees

1: Evergreen, $109,170; 33c
2: All-Stars, $125,728; 38c
3: Timberline, $129199; 39c
4: Raven, $134173; 41c
5: Celtic, $143090; 44c
6: Seneca, $164136; 50c
7: Corsair, $178030; 54c

Raven had this contract this year on very similar ground and ratio of straight/fill.

They ask for a reefer truck as well there is quite a bit of quading trees on every block

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:19 pm

BCTS Merritt - PL15TEF002
1,049,732 Trees

1) - $281,207 - 26.8 - Coast range
2) - $358,888 - 34.2 - A&G
3) - $362,206 - 34.5 - Evergreen
4) - $369,510 - 35.2 - Raven
5) - $377,502 - 36.0 - Brinkman
6) - $383,588 - 36.5 - Seneca
7) - $433,773 - 41.3 - Celtic

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:51 pm

Recent Bid Results;

MOFL Meritt
PL15DCS101
408,670 Trees

$134,137 - $0.328 COAST RANGE
$146,672 - $0.359 EVERGREEN
$158,522 - $0.388 A&G
$163,556 - $0.400 CORSAIR
$165,251 - $0.404 BRINKMAN
$179,815 - $0.440 LEADER
$180,182 - $0.441 INTEGRITY
$205,504 - $0.503 SENECA

BCTS Okanagan South
PL15TKN007
982,456 Trees
3-Year Renewable

$293,946 - $0.299 BLUE COLLAR
$327,583 - $0.333 COAST RANGE
$361,014 - $0.367 QUASTUCO
$361,432 - $0.368 TIMBERLINE
$372,936 - $0.380 EVERGREEN
$373,097 - $0.380 RAVEN
$406,461 - $0.414 CELTIC
$481,464 - $0.490 SENECA

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:03 am

[quote="Evergreen"]In Scooter's Abscence

BCTS - 100 Mile House - approx 3.4 million trees - PL15TEG001

$1,249,167 - 36.7 - Dynamic
$1,266,979 - 37.3 - Brinkman
$1,312,385 - 38.6 - Celtic
$1,428,164 - 42.0 - Blue Collar
$1,590,362 - 46.8 - Seneca
$1,619,937 - 47.6 - Fieldstone
$1,663,359 - 48.9 - Next Gen
$1,730,823 - 50.9 - Folklore[/quote]

I believe coastrange did this one last year. Any details on how it went for them? Looks like it's one of the only public bids that has had a significant jump in pennies from last year.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:57 am

BCTS Merritt
PL15TEF001
509,478 Trees

$152,334 - $0.299 COAST RANGE
$159,466 - $0.313 RAVEN
$173,225 - $0.340 AKD
$182,903 - $0.359 BRINKMAN
$187,997 - $0.369 A&G
$194,620 - $0.382 FOLKLORE
$203,791 - $0.400 MAKALU - never seen a bid from this company before
$213,981 - $0.420 LEADER
$221,113 - $0.434 SENECA - These 2 being identical may be a misprint
$221,113 - $0.434 CELTIC

granola · Post by **granola** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:28 am

Evergreen wrote:BCTS Merritt
PL15TEF001
509,478 Trees

$152,334 - $0.299 COAST RANGE
$159,466 - $0.313 RAVEN
$173,225 - $0.340 AKD
$182,903 - $0.359 BRINKMAN
$187,997 - $0.369 A&G
$194,620 - $0.382 FOLKLORE
$203,791 - $0.400 MAKALU - never seen a bid from this company before
$213,981 - $0.420 LEADER
$221,113 - $0.434 SENECA - These 2 being identical may be a misprint
$221,113 - $0.434 CELTIC

Might that be this company?http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvgt.d ... 1&app=sold

If so, then that's an odd bid, as the company is incorporated in Quebec. Also, according to this:http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 94794.html the owner is only 25 years old. Weird. Also he cycled across Canada in the winter.

Well, that's my internet sleuthing for the day.

Evergreen · Post by **Evergreen** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:00 pm

BCTS Arrow
PL15TFG001
985,446 Trees

$423,451 - $0.430 - EVERGREEN
$424,694 - $0.431 - CELTIC
$425,157 - $0.431 - TIMBERLINE
$447,248 - $0.454 - FIELDSTONE

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Any results for BCTS East Kootenay ? I know it was a private opening...

Arrow was sure a tight race !

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:09 pm

BCTS East Kootenay

784800 trees

1. Zanzibar $316356 $.403
2. Brinkman $329053 $.419
3. A&G $347342 $.442
4. Next Gen $364147 $.464

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:32 pm

Cheers, Can't remember the last time I saw Zanzi win an interior BCTS job. Either Arrow or Cranbrook should be solid contracts in 2014. Kootenay Lake looks a little low for a tough job and all Fert...

Any info why Timberline would drop Arrow in the middle of 3 year deal ? Their bid isn't much higher than before ??? Strange to throw away a million trees.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:34 pm

Cheers, Can't remember the last time I saw Zanzi win an interior BCTS job. Either Arrow or Cranbrook should be solid contracts in 2014. Kootenay Lake looks a little low for a tough job and all Fert...

Any info why Timberline would drop Arrow in the middle of 3 year deal ? Their bid isn't much higher than before ??? Strange to throw away a million trees.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:45 pm

they were unable to negotiate the prices they wanted. There was likely more ground this season that BCTS deemed to be "easier" and Timberline disagreed. when the ground changes on a multi year deal it can sometimes be hard to negotiate pricing the way you would like.

shawniganlaker · Post by **shawniganlaker** » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:10 pm

yes, but their price on this bid is pretty much the same as they had locked in for. So there should be no reason to back out and then submit the same bid.

mcD · Post by **mcD** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:43 am

The price may be the same, but BCTS would probably have tried to negotiate for less if in their opinion the ground was less challenging

Post by **Scooter** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:56 am

I don't know anything about the specifics of that job, but here's an example of random math to illustrate the points above. All numbers are purely hypothetical.

------

Let's pretend that Timberline had won a three-year contract in Surrey and it was a million trees, 500k of trenches that they bid 25 cents per tree on, and 500k of fills that they bid 45 cents per tree on. Their average price would be 35 cents per tree, or $350k for the million tree contract.

Let's say that they decided at the end of the first year that their trench price was too low, and they wish it had been 30 cents. They did well on the fills and figured that they price could stay the same at 45 cents.

The details for year 2 are released. The contract is slightly bigger, at 1.05m trees. However, Timberline sees that there is even more trenched ground in that year, 700,000 trees to be exact, while the number of fills is only 350,000 trees. They decide to drop it and rebid.

They bid 30 cents on the trenches: 700,000 * $0.30 = $210,000
They bid 45 cents on the fills: 350,000 * $0.45 = $157,500

Total bid on the contract: $367,500 for 1.05m trees. This works out to exactly 35 cents per tree.

So in this example, Timberline has ended up bidding the exact same overall price per tree on the contract compared to what they had dropped, but the difference is that they are happier with their bid because it works out to a more appropriate price per tree that reflects the difficulty level of the blocks.