Rookies, do you have any questions?

[Scooter]

People who are considering a season as a first-time planter should start their research by watching the videos from this link:

http://jonathan-scooter-clark.blogspot. ... eason.html

After that, if you have questions, post them here on the Message Board and we'll try to answer them.

Crew bosses and company owners are welcome to share that post as widely as possible.

[LiconC]

-I have a warm and very expensive coat that provides me with a huge amount of comfort. If I bring this and wear it in camp only will I have to worry about it getting trashed?

-I've heard the food is often excellent, but the coffee is often poor. Will people think I am a yuppy-douche for bringing my aeropress?

-Dry bags are expensive... is it worth the investment? Or will a clear plastic bag suffice?

-Typically, does one need to bring their own dishes?

I appreciate the time and energy you guys.

[Scooter]

1. Yes. Leave that coat at home for your life in civilization. Go to Value Village or some place like that and get a disposable heavy second-hand coat for $10. It will get pretty dirty. You'll probably really only need it for May. Once things are getting pretty warm, you can either keep it for the rest of the season as a pillow, or if you don't want to have to carry it around in hopes of using it the following May, just donate it back to Value Village and buy another $10 coat the following year.

2. Probably. Balance that against your addiction to coffee. I don't understand what an aeropress is. I'm more of a "chew on a spoonful of dry instant coffee mix" type of guy. This would be a good question to ask your cook, if it involves a device that requires electrical power. You know what though? Having a few simple comforts is really nice when the overwhelming experience of tree planting is getting you down. If it's not expensive or bulky, I'd say that you should bring it. Don't worry about what other people think. They'll be drinking shitty coffee.

3. Yes, a dry-bag is worth the investment. It will last forever, and you'll probably use it when you're forty years old and camping with your kids, as long as you take care of it. If you don't have access to dry stuff on the block, you could easily lose half a day of planting because you're shivering in the truck. That would cost you more than it would have cost you to buy a dry-bag in the first place. Light plastic bags will work sometimes, but they're too thin and they'll rip frequently. Maybe someone else can comment here on the best places to buy an affordable dry-bag? I'd check the mec.ca website, although I've never bought anything from them. Their Brooks dry-bag is pretty popular. It looks like the biggest, a 55 litre, is only $49 plus shipping. But you get free shipping on orders of $50 or more, so maybe the tax will put it into a bracket where shipping is free. And if not, find something else on the website that costs a dollar so you're basically paying a dollar to ship your order.

4. You should check with your cook. I've seen camps that ask you to bring your own, and other camps that provide dishes. When dishes are provided by the company, they're usually pretty low-quality. The advantage of bringing your own is that you can bring a really big plate, to really load up at dinner. If you have to bring your own, all you really need is a plate, fork, knife. You might want to add a bowl and large spoon, for soup. You might want to add a mug, which you'll presumably have anyway for your coffee. People who aren't coffee drinks often don't bring a mug. Instead, they'll use their Nalgene water bottle.

[LiconC]

That's a wicked response, thank you.

I just thought of another one:

-I'm bussing from Edmonton to Smithers, and according to greyhound there is a 12hour layover in PG. I'd love to spend the time exploring (possibly the forestry museum), in which case, what options/ resources are available for storing the enormous amount of stuff I will have with me while I walk around? Will I be stuck with hoofing my gear everywhere I go?

[Scooter]

I believe that the Greyhound depot in PG has lockers. Someone else will have to answer this one in more detail. Worst case, call them at 250-564-5454, although you may have to go through a lot of menus and waiting before you talk to someone. And they'll probably be cranky about having to talk on the phone.

[jdtesluk]

Agree on the coffee. You might want to favor pre-ground, as time will be tight in the mornings.

Dry-bag. I call that a necessity. The big one may seem like overkill, but you can always roll the top down quite a ways. Nice to be able to clip the top into something to prevent it from say, I dunno, falling out of the truck or something on the way to work MEC ftw here. If it fails you can return it anytime down the line. If you use a proper backpack, it WILL get trashed. Nothing better than having a big warm fluffy sweater to pop on at the end of the day, nice and dry out of your bag.

Definitely +1 on the dish IF you are required to bring one. If so, I recommend a nice thrift store multi-compartment Indonesian teak serving tray. They work quite well for keeping things separate, and saving you return trips to the trough.

[ohsnap]

-I have a warm and very expensive coat that provides me with a huge amount of comfort. If I bring this and wear it in camp only will I have to worry about it getting trashed?

Bring nothing to wear that you will miss if it goes missing/gets destroyed.

-I've heard the food is often excellent, but the coffee is often poor. Will people think I am a yuppy-douche for bringing my aeropress?

Depends on the company and the cook, they do control the strength of the coffee after all. For work days I drink camp coffee. For days off I have a press, and my own coffee. I'd say 1/3 of our camp brings some sort of camping coffee set up. This wasn't always the case as I remember three years ago lineups for using my press on days off. It's pretty nice to have coffee before you make it to town, if you even need to go.

-Dry bags are expensive... is it worth the investment? Or will a clear plastic bag suffice?

(I know you're working in BC, but this is a key thing most rookies should know)
This can go two ways. If you are working in Alberta I would say yes definitely you need a dry bag. If you're anywhere else, I'd advise one, but you can get by with a backpack that has a rain cover... All in all I'd say never count on something that rips in an instant (plastic bag). You can't always stash your bag/things/whatever under the tarp, you will annoy your fellow planters and foreman if you do this. Those that do learn quickly that you can't rely on those sharing a cache to not leave your shit out in the rain, trees take priority under the cache. Dry bags are the most successful at keeping your stuff dry, I'd say 40-100$ for something that will ensure your happiness and sanity on the crap days is well worth it. It will save you money in the long run. Mec sells them, their own brand is pretty durable. Amazon and Ebay aso have them. Most outdoor/sports stores have them. 20-35L is all you'll need. Sealline used to have really durable ones, but I think they changed the material they use about four years ago, they're still one of the best brands for durability. Osprey, Overboard, are also pretty durable. Make sure you get a backpack if you're ordering online, and not just a dry bag - a walk in with no straps gets annoying fast.

-Typically, does one need to bring their own dishes?

Depends on the company. Ask them. If you end up running late and like to eat breakfast in the truck, you'll want to have something to do that with. There always seems to be a shortage of utensils mid season. I like to be prepared so I have dishes, but I also camp in a mini school bus that is my home for half the year, so I'm not really one to speak...I have most essential kitchen things.

-I'm bussing from Edmonton to Smithers, and according to greyhound there is a 12hour layover in PG. I'd love to spend the time exploring (possibly the forestry museum), in which case, what options/ resources are available for storing the enormous amount of stuff I will have with me while I walk around? Will I be stuck with hoofing my gear everywhere I go?

There are lockers at the PG greyhound, but they aren't big. If you're bringing more than a duffel bag, it's likely your stuff won't fit, the duffel might not even fit....If there are employees there you can sometimes leave a bag or two with them but usually they are not much help at all. You should try calling them, but you may end up walking over to the cafe and hiding out there the whole time.

[fluffer]

I used one of the cheap silvi sacs (6$) as a dry bag and it worked fine. I used it to line a thin bag I got at VV for 2$. Clipped a strap onto it for carrying on the shoulder. Worked fine for interior planting.

[newforest]

If you bring a press the most common comment will be a question - hey, can I borrow that?

Good coffee and traveling a lot and making the coffee on a remote site took me a while to dial in. I burned out the aluminum plate on a couple Coleman drip makers that sit on a camp stove, and I had a model that burned propane all by itself get stolen, and I broke several French Presses in various ways. Hint: when it says in the care instructions not to stir inside the press with a metal spoon, believe them. Metal will slowly put tiny chips/cracks on the glass of the carafe until it breaks. Now I use a dry, bark-less twig to stir it - these are available everywhere I go, and are free. Pine or Maple work best. I'm thinking about using them more in the kitchen even, to boost my laziness factor.

Finally I settled on this press:



The outer sleeve is actually hard plastic and rubber and it can survive small drops; the carafe inside is traditional glass. I keep it in a small plastic box with some bubble wrap anyway, but then I'm not living out of a backpack either. There are stainless steel ones available these days but I haven't seen one of those quite as big as the presses Bodum makes. I'd rather have two full cups each a.m.

And you have to grind the coffee. This has been a great find:



Oddly, it is made by Kyocera, who made my first smart-ish cell phone. Previous solutions have included a "Travel Grinder" that took 15 minutes to grind enough beans for one cup, and running a 7.3L diesel coffee grinder - i.e. firing up the truck to run a coffee grinder, which draw far more juice than the rest of my old car battery and 4 watt LED Christmas light ecosystem does.

[Scooter]

Not the answer to a question, but a lot of rookies have questions about gear. While this message board does have an entire forum devoted to equipment, most inexperienced planters-to-be probably can't see it because they don't have accounts here.

I just went through the Suggested Equipment list, and made some major revisions (the original was written in 2002). Here's the link, for anyone who hasn't planted before and who needs to start thinking about what you'll need to buy so you're prepared:

http://www.replant.ca/docs/equipment_list.pdf

[Scooter]

Here's the link to the last twelve videos in the series:

http://jonathan-scooter-clark.blogspot. ... ow-to.html

However, if you're a rookie, and you plan on making time to watch these (4 hours 20 minutes total), you should do it a couple days before the season starts, so the info is fresh in your mind when you strap on your bags for the first time.

[mossie]

Hey all, I'm brand-new and a little late to the game with applications. A crew chief got in touch with me today and I wanted to double-check - is it typical for them to contact potential planters from their personal e-mails and set up interviews that way? It's with Heritage Reforestation Inc. (HRI) if that makes any difference.

[Scooter]

Yes, that's typical. I can't think of a whole lot of companies that set up corporate email accounts for their foremen. A couple do, but not many. Some company owners even use hotmail and gmail and other ISP's.

[mossie]

Awesome, thanks a bunch! The e-mail reads pretty legit, but I was a bit concerned because it sounds like their website was compromised around this time last year. The interview will be over Skype so I'll have a chance to feel the foreman out.

[devcity]

I am going to be a rookie for this upcoming season of tree planting and had a couple of questions.

1. I am travelling by plane, how would you recommend bringing all of my gear? Will I only need a backpack and a duffel bag? or more than that....
2. During the season do most planters bring a backpack with them to hold their lunches and water bottles for the day? along with their bags of trees on each side of them?
3. Could you describe the first day when we arrive? Is everyone arriving at the same time or will people already be there, and is there designated areas for your tent to be put up? or do we just find a space where it fits?
4. If there are multiple different camps/groups you could be placed with for the season, do we arrive to a general area and then we are all taken to our specific camp site? or will i be given directions to the camp site i was assigned to?

Thank you,
D

[Scooter]

1. If you can fit all of your stuff into a large dufflebag (checked bag) and a good backpack (checked or carry-on), I think you'll be fine. The majority of the planters that I pick up at the airport have two bags, one of which is a duffle pack and the other is a backpack of varying sizes.
2. Yes and no. You'll almost always leave your daybag at your cache on the side of the road where your foreman leaves boxes of trees for you to plant. That way, you don't have to carry that weight around all day while you're planting.
3. Yes and no. You probably won't be the first to arrive, you'll probably have to wait for other planters. When you go out to camp (which may be a day or two after you get to a meeting spot), your camp supervisor will probably point in a general area and say "find a spot in there to put up your tents."
4. That's specific to the company you're working for. In companies with multiple camps, I think the general rule is that each camp has its own specific (different) meeting places and times, to minimize confusion.

Make sure you ask the person who hired you exactly when and where you're supposed to meet someone, and who will be there from the company to pick you up. And swap cell phone numbers if you have a cell, in case the person picking you up gets a flat tire on the way to get you, or some other problem.

Take the time to watch all the videos - I think that will really help.

[Qplants]

1. I am travelling by plane, how would you recommend bringing all of my gear? Will I only need a backpack and a duffel bag? or more than that....
A dufflebag and backpack will be enough. If you can't fit all of your stuff into this you need to downsize.

2. During the season do most planters bring a backpack with them to hold their lunches and water bottles for the day? along with their bags of trees on each side of them?
If I were you i would by a bigger jug (i think mine is a 7 litre from walmart) and a nalgene to put in your back bag (if needed) while doing your bag up. That will leave room in your backpack or dry bag for rain gear lunch and bug dope if needed. (i keep my backpack under my cache tarp and it has always stayed dry)

3. Could you describe the first day when we arrive? Is everyone arriving at the same time or will people already be there, and is there designated areas for your tent to be put up? or do we just find a space where it fits?
Well that depends on if you arrive on the orientation day or a few days earlier. If you arrive early i would advise you to talk to your foreman and see where other planters are staying and ask for a contact for cheaper accommodation whilst waiting for the contract to start. If you arrive on orientation day you could be oriented then go straight to camp. (crew boss will take you there most likely)

4. If there are multiple different camps/groups you could be placed with for the season, do we arrive to a general area and then we are all taken to our specific camp site? or will i be given directions to the camp site i was assigned to?
Whom ever your'e placed with as a crew boss will give you these instructions when they are made aware.

[LiconC]

1. I understand the importance of socks, but perhaps not fully. Poly-pro socks/liners and wool are expensive (the former being rare, to boot). I understand the importance of these materials, but I wonder if it is really necessary to purchase a 12 pack of each which, by my estimates, would be around $200 in socks (Wool=$25/ 3pack, poly=$8/ pair). What is the rationale behind having so many pairs? Is the $200 investment worth it?

2. I understand how sunglasses are inefficient for planting, but I am curious as to why safety glasses are not common in the silviculture industry. It seems like wearing a pair of anti-fog safeties and getting the occasional black-fly bouncing between your face and the lens is far preferable to a punctured sclera.

3. Finally, I am considering an alternative means of getting myself to Smithers (from Edmonton) that saves me either $150 or $200 and a 27h bus-ride: 1. Flying to Terrace/Kitimat (YXT), then 2. taking the 2.5h greyhound to Smithers. There is a substantial chance that I will miss the Greyhound. My first question on this matter is: what is hitchhiking culture like in these parts? My second question is: Does this fly+greyhound/hitch option seem reasonable as compared to either flying all the way ($350) or bussing all the way ($115)?

Again, I appreciate the time and energy behind the answers you all give out to us dumbfucks.

[retrovertigo]

LiconC:

1. It's important to have a lot of socks but IMO they don't need to be especially high quality if you wear boot liners (bamas or neoprene kayaking socks) over top. Just aim to have 2 pairs per day over your laundry cycle - you want a fresh pair everyday for work, and another to look forward to putting on back in camp/motel.
2. Most companies do offer safety glasses. I usually only take them when I'm working overgrown fill plant blocks where I'm constantly leaning into brush. Over ten years I've only seen a handful of eye injuries and none of them were 'poke your eye out' types. Probably the only lasting impact were the endless pirate jokes they had to listen to wearing an eye patch.
3. Don't know that part of BC well so maybe someone else can advise you transportation up there, but be very careful hitchhiking. Surely you've heard the term Highway of Tears? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65715

[Scooter]

Linon, good answers from Retrovertigo there. I'll add my two cents:

1. Multi-pack of wool socks and multi-pack of cotton socks, Walmart. Total price probably $35. This goes against the grain with respect to recommending a professional solution, and I absolutely would not recommend it to someone working in a high rainfall zone like the coast. If you're starting off in the Interior, and you're on a really tight budget, the cotton socks will probably get you through with no problem. Go to Walmart and buy twenty shopping bags (the environment-destroying anti-ecological kind for 5 cent each, coming to a grand total of a dollar for that investment) and any day that it looks rainy, take three or four pairs of socks wrapped up in half a dozen plastic shopping bags. If your feet get too wet during the day, swap them out for a dry pair of socks and put a pair of plastic bags on over the socks before you put your feet in your boots (you can run a strip of duct tape around your ankle - not too tight - to keep them from sliding down too much). That way, it'll probably take a couple hours before your dry socks become soaked again, and if you have the option of doing this a couple times per day, you'll be fine, even if it rains all three/four days of your shift. Another thing that might happen is that you're one of those few lucky people (like myself) whose feet have no problem with being soaked all day long. If it's warm rain, and you dry your feet thoroughly when you get back to camp, you might be fine. But definitely dry them as soon as possible in camp, just to minimize long-term problems with mold and fungus or whatever it is that grows on peoples' feet when they're wet and cold all day. Trench foot, or something like that. I can't believe that I typed all this, but if you're planting in a fairly dry area, I think you're probably going to be fine.

2. As RV said, almost every company (in Western Canada) has safety glasses if you want to use them. I also have only used them a couple times, on blocks with waist high pokers, or when fighting through salmonberry over my head on a heinous 80-cent coastal block. I've never worn anti-fog safety glasses, but I can't imagine that even such a thing would hold up to planting sweat. I've worked construction labour jobs wearing glasses, and planting wearing glasses, and they seem to fog up about ten times as much when planting. Ironic story ... I ripped my cornea once when planting. It happened because I was wearing glasses at the time, and a branch hooked behind them. As I stepped away, the branch caught on my glasses and ripped up into my eyeball. I doubt it would have happened if I hadn't been wearing glasses at the time. Of course, this is a 1-in-100,000 chance, and I'm not suggesting that glasses are dangerous. But on a hot day, they steam up quickly and are just as frustrating as during a rainfall (more so - you can wear a ball cap during rain and they might stay fairly dry).

3. If you have to hitchhike, do it with a phone. When you get a ride, as you walk up to the vehicle, take a photo of the license plate and car, and send it to a friend who knows your intention and who won't delete the photo until a few days later. As you are asking about getting the ride, tell the person that for safety reasons, you want to take a quick photo and send it to a friend. They may tell you to fuck yourself and drive off, leaving you to continue trying to hitch a ride. But they may also shrug and say, "sure." (Or you could just take a photo of them slyly once you're in the vehicle, and send it to a friend). Then, an hour later, when they have you duct-taped naked in an abandoned rock quarry, and are just starting to do a pretty good job of carving you up with a butcher's knife, you can go to your grave with the perverse satisfaction that there's a pretty good chance they'll get caught because of the plate & facial photos that you sent to your friend.

[jdtesluk]

Socks- search for comments elsewhere about compression socks. I argue the best possible sock system is a thin merino under a pair of knee-high compression socks.

Glasses- really, employers have a responsibility to provide eye protection if there are hazards to your eyes. So in blocks where there are lots of pokey branches, they should let workers know glasses are available. I find standard safety glasses often provide poor venting and too much lens distortion. I wore Smith cycling glasses for my last few years. The real key was to wear them with a headband to soak up the sweat and prevent drips onto the glasses. I wore something called a halo, which is a headband with a tiny gasket that diverts sweat to the sides. This was great, and I rarely had to adjust my glasses. I was motivated to move fast to avoid fogging. Now there are anti-fog treated glasses which may be great fits for planting.

Hitch-hiking. Scooter is not exaggerating. There was actually a young planter that went missing on that highway (Nicole Hoar), and the authorities are not even sure they have accurate figures of all the young First Nations women that have gone missing while hitch-hiking that road. Check with your company, and try to connect with a ride out that way if possible. The two major employers out that way (Summit and Windfirm) know well enough about the perils of that highway, and I would expect they would help you find safe transit to the job. Finding a ride out to the job can be a great way to get to know your new co-workers.

Good luck with the season, and be safe!

[Crustychic]

I just have a question concerning shovels.
I need to buy a new one for this season and my camp supervisor told me they wont have tools for me to shorten or grind it (and I would ideally buff one kicker). Ill be buying the shovel in Kamloops, do you know where i could find someone to do it, or if even the forestry shops have them on hand?

[jdtesluk]

The place where you buy your shovel will likely not have tools to use for shaping the blade.

However, if you buy a narrower type of blade (my personal preference), there is less need to grind off a kicker. Be sure also to grind the proper one off. If you hold your shovel with your right hand, you'll probably want to grind your left kicker. I would suggest that if you are a rookie, the kicker thing is less of an issue, and won't make much of a difference (if any) until you start picking up your speed.

For grinding the blade you need a portable disc grinder. Some machine shops may have this, and a friendly chat with a shop owner may get your grinding done for $10 or something. You could also buy a cheap plug-in grinder and do it yourself. However, if you do, wear goggles AND a face shield, thick gloves, and proper clothing. If and when a disc explodes, the pieces can fly like shrapnel and shred flesh (and eyeballs). Seriously, I cringe every time I see some one grinding away with sunglasses on while wearing shorts and sandals.

For shortening the shaft, all you should need is a hacksaw. There should be some way of removing either the handle or the blade, and then cutting the shaft. Be double triple sure to get it the right length. Tip: easier to make it shorter later, but really hard to make it longer. I would suggest starting at the longest you think you may want it, and then try it out. Rookies spend more time probing for microsites (planting spots), so too short of a shovel can be negative for them. You'll see lots of vets with short shovels they swear by, but they have developed technique to get the tree in fast and straight right away and know how to pick their spots. Give yourself a chance to pick up these skills, and don't rush into trying to modify your gear like them right off the bat.

[Scooter]

Tell your supervisor that if he/she invests a couple hundred dollars in proper tools, his/her planters will have better tools to plant with. The planters will then plant more trees, and he/she will make enough in extra commission to cover the cost of the tools. All that is needed is a hacksaw ($30), a Robertson screwdriver ($10), and a disc grinder. The grinder will work on removing rivets too, if the shovel has rivets instead of screws. A package of self-tapping metal screws will also come in handy. And let's be honest ... we're all lazy. A portable drill is better than a screwdriver. And less risk of giving someone tendonitis.

I think you're probably not a first-year planter, if you're already crusty.

I also feel that if you're trying to get work done like what you've suggested, and there are no tools, go to an independent garage at 4:55pm with a six-pack of cold beer, and your shovel mods will probably happen surprisingly quickly.

[rosslord2011]

Hello,

Just want to start off by saying thanks to everyone for answering all the questions. There's tons of info here that really helps and I just wanna say I appreciate your efforts on this. Also shout out to Scooter for that "Tree planter training" series, that must've taken ages to put together and really really helps so I know what I'm getting into, what to expect, tips and tricks, and minimize the surprises. It's long, but there's a veritable fortune of information in there. It's awesome.

I just have one question - Correct me if I'm wrong, but typical Interior BC planting season runs to beginning - middle of August ish, no? I was curious what kind of opportunities there was for work after the season is over for a month or two. I've heard stories of some companies doing tree thinning? or trimming, or something along those lines? I've also heard of some planters taking up mushroom picking? I was hoping you would be able to shed some light on whether these were legitimate options or not, or if there was some other options that I am not aware of.

Thanks in advance,

Ross

[Scooter]

Thanks Ross.

Interior BC: Typical start dates range from the last week of April (in mid-southern areas) to usually in the May 1st-10th range, depending on logistics, snow, company timelines in trying to line together multiple contracts, etc. Typical end dates range from June 20th (more common for many of the southern companies, and higher-priced trees at small firms) to mid-July or even late July. A few companies plant into August, although it's not too common. And for those that do, it's usually only the first week or so.

Work afterwards: Thinning is not realistically an option for planters who are students ... the drawback of having to go back to school in late August or early September makes it so that a thinning company would be reluctant to invest any time in hiring you for such a short window. For someone who is able to do it all fall, it's definitely a viable option. Thinning and other saw work is a whole world of its own that overlaps with planting in a small way, since a small number of people do both jobs. Saw work is also like planting in that it will take you some time to get good at it ... the rookie learning curve applies all over again (although granted, if you've planted before, you have two advantages: you understand spacing, and you're used to hard work). If you're not in school and are seriously interested in long-term work, I'd say that an option might be to contact Celtic or Spectrum after your planting season is over, and try to get work with them for a year or two, until you get good at it. After that, I think if you posted a comment on here that says, "I've been thinning for XXX for such-and-such a time period, and would like to know more about other work options," you'd probably have a couple of the regulars here who would contact you and help you out.

Mushrooms: Highly variable, and I can't give advice because I've never done it.

[GuillRaymond]

Hello,
I have some questions for you.

1. Do some compagnies start their season in the first week of june, is it common or I will need to look hard to find some in B.C ?
2. I would like to make my application as a rookie with a friend is it recommanded or the fact that we are two will cauz some reluctance amoung the employers
3. I am a french canadien will that cauz some probleme?
4. What are the most common work shedule, when does it start, when does it end?
5. If it is not possible to find a job for the begening of the season, do some employer recrute mid season?
6. Do most company declare revenue or sometime they simply pay cash?

Thank you for your time.

[Casper]

Hi GuillRaymond

1 - It is not common to have companies in BC starting in the first week of June, most start late April - Mid May in the interior.
2 - I don't think it is a problem. Maybe only one of you will get hired, maybe both, or none. Be prepared for everything.
3 - That should not be an issue, except if you can't communicate in English at all.
4 - I don't know if you mean daily work schedule, if yes, then it varies sometimes, but in general, be at the truck at 7 at the latest, drive to the block, work until around 4 or 5 and then drive back to camp.
6 - Paying cash is very uncommon and if you find a comnpany that does, my advice is to stay away from them.