Mixed-species boxes

[CreamDolphin]

How common are these and what are peoples thoughts? I've only planted one season in Ontario, but I personally enjoyed them. It made it so that the planting was a little more random. The microsite selection was still necessary, but species specific microsite selection isn't necessary. It makes grabbing a tree from the draw bag a much simpler affair. Granted I plant ambi so managing two species was easy with one on either side, but this is simpler. Also it made me grin when a tree went in entirely the wrong microsite, but it was required because we weren't aloud to choose which one went where, it had to be random. On the other hand they are packaged with the bundles split down the middle of species, so you have to mix them into your, bag. Not too bad at the cache I guess but a pain in the land. On a mildly related note my brother got a pod with a spruce and a pine seedling in it in a straight pine box.

[Scooter]

I've never seen these in western Canada, although I've made them. Did you get them that way straight from the nursery, or did the management at your company mix the boxes?

I've had contracts before where we were planting four species, and people wanted to bag up with exactly a box but in the right ratio, and not have chaotic boxes and partials all over the place. So I just spent a week in the reefer, mixing boxes for them, so every time they grabbed a box they'd know it was exactly the right ratio for the block overall, and it was set up with a perfect number for them. So say something like: 90 white spruce, 120 pine, 60 douglas fir, and 30 larch in every single box. And in that example, the trees just needed to be mixed randomly across the blocks (percentage mixing, not targeted mixing) so they could just pull out whatever came out of their bags first.

[CreamDolphin]

They came straight from the nursery that way, and from a couple different ones too. The ones I know of were jack pine(sandy and low competition)/white spruce(dry and high competition) and white spruce/black spruce(wet and low), both being 50/50. I've only included the microsites for clarification over the east west differences haha So for example I had a block that was prescribed for Pj/Sw and I might get a Pj in a really dense green section of the unscar half, or either one might end up in a swamp. I know the microsite just provides the best possible chance for the tree, and they will likely survive as long as it's a good tree. But is this better than trusting a planter to do species specific microsite selection?

[Scooter]

But is this better than trusting a planter to do species specific microsite selection?

Probably not. But pre-mixed boxes from the nursery would be pretty convenient in a lot of cases. In a perfect world (for the forester), they'd send out the pre-mixed boxes and the forester would suggest to the planters to try to put the appropriate species in decent microsites, when possible, without being completely random.

I'd just bag up spruce on one side and pine on the other, and plant the best species for each spot. It's not that hard if you're ambi planting, doesn't slow you down any. Of course, it might slow anyone who didn't learn to plant ambi, maybe 5% to 10% per bagup. So that wouldn't be good.

[Almaguin]

Don't believe that I am a fan of this "pre-packaging" of the ratio.

I believe that a better approach which I have experienced is when the foreperson or supervisor applies a macro approach to the whole block for all planters and all the pieces or areas which may have a higher degree of variance. Just because the block ratio is 3:2 for two species doesn't mean that it works on your piece.

Example "in the simple", 3 equal area pieces, middle piece IS 3:2, left piece is 4:2, right piece is 2:2.

Communication with forester and planters makes this work, maintains ratio and approaches best scenario.

This never really seemed to be a problem in facilitating, just takes organization and commitment and continual tuning.

[Almaguin]

Maybe just a muddying, sorry, but multi-column tally books also should aid in best results. yadda, yadda. is it really that hard to figure out on the go?

[Scooter]

Right, but you're thinking about targeted ratios, where there are a certain number of trees ordered for the block, but the forester wants you to put the different species in the areas which are most appropriate. You're familiar with that, because that's what you're used to (and it's the best approach).

In a lot of areas in the northern Interior and moving eastwards, they use percentage ratios. The land there is a lot more homogenous, so a percentage ratio (where the species mix needs to be truly "random" instead of microsite-specific, with each species showing up XX percent of the time in any given series of plots across the block) really makes sense.

Your answer is completely correct, but you're a professional who is also used to working in technically challenging areas (with pros). For the farm fields of the north, random numbers work pretty well, 99% of the time.

[CreamDolphin]

I believe that a better approach which I have experienced is when the foreperson or supervisor applies a macro approach to the whole block for all planters and all the pieces or areas which may have a higher degree of variance. Just because the block ratio is 3:2 for two species doesn't mean that it works on your piece.

On this particular contract the blocks were organized differently. They were broken into "mini blocks" based on macrosites as you were saying, by the forester. So it was sections anywhere from .5 to 3 hectares of the same environment. Therefore it was roughly the right sites no matter what, with occasional mistakes obviously. Basically it is like having your piece cut to make it easier to manage the species, its just officially a different block sector.

[CreamDolphin]

By the way, is Almaguin refering to the district in Ontario around Novar, or does it just happen to be the same name?

[Almaguin]

Yes Scooter, you describe more fully where I am coming from.

I agree with you completely. This pre-packaging of ratio for very close to homogeneous land makes math simple and then it just remains to see proper micro-siting based on any soil or medium variations and ensuring the mix is maintained throughout and not biased towards the varying weights of the species within the pre-packaged.

YES CreamDolphin;

The Almaguin (derived from the words Algonquin and Magnetawan) Highlands, is the area north of Novar until about Powassan, east to Algonquin Park and about 1/3 of the way west towards Parry Sound and Georgian Bay.

Novar is also considered a northern edge for the Muskokas.

[CreamDolphin]

The Almaguin (derived from the words Algonquin and Magnetawan) Highlands, is the area north of Novar until about Powassan, east to Algonquin Park and about 1/3 of the way west towards Parry Sound and Georgian Bay.

Haha yeah, I use to live in Novar and now live just east of Huntsville. Is that where you are from?

[Almaguin]

yes, regards