Steel Toe or No?

[philnyedaplanterguy]

Hey hope this hasn't already been discussed but I didn't see it on the other threads.

So I've planted 3 seasons in Ontario and Alberta all in steel toes, and this year I am finally making the jump to BC. I believe steel toes are not a requirement out there and was wondering if most planters still used them or not. Do people actually like having steel toes for screefing or do people just wear them because they tend to hold together better than hikers? I was thinking of buying a couple pairs of old combat boots as someone recommended in another post.

Thanks

[TripleS]

Just unnecessary weight, so ditch the steel toes. Don't boot screef either, unless you want to wreck your knees.

[philnyedaplanterguy]

Ah I'm too young to be worryin bout my knees yet, but it seems most of the toughest work boots have steel toes

[Cyper]

Perhaps this is another reason to reconsider planting on the coast. At least one coastal licensee, Western Forest Products is considering requiring all planters to wear steel toed boots. This directive is coming from well up the corporate food chain where upper management has no real concern for planter's safety, only for covering their own liability should someone get hurt.
They are also considering requiring planters to wear safety glasses at all times and apparently in at least one location are insisting on it. Can you imagine wearing safety glasses in the rain? It's pretty obvious that your vision would be obscured by rain drops and fogging up. This is just another terrible example of multi national corporations having little or no concern for the specific safety needs of planters. As far as the upper management of these mega corporations are concerned, our singular type of work is not worth taking the time to give careful attention to.
Is anyone aware of anywhere in B.C. where either steel toed boots or wearing safety glasses is required for planters?

[philnyedaplanterguy]

ya pretty wack, though ill admit I've almost poked my eyes out a couple of times working in pieces overrun with young poplars. Also I take back what I said about the toughest workboots having steel toes, I found a pretty good pair of combats for a decent price which will hopefully last me most the season.

But on the other hand I've never actually had anyone actually check if I have steel toes, I think anybody on the ground knows its a rule not worth enforcing. What company is going to actually fire a productive planter for not wearing a hard hat? Which brings up the question: why the hell is most everyone (in Ontario at least) wearing steel toes? Only time this might be an issue is if the clients tree checkers are assholes and are just looking for excuses to fine the planting company.

[Scooter]

I find that a lot of times, clients suggest that steel toes and steel shanks are recommended, but they rarely check footwear or enforce this rule. Perhaps this is because there are essentially no foot-related incidents crossing their desks which are related to a lack of proper footwear.

The safety glasses issue that Cyper mentions is a contentious one at the moment, and I'm going to be working for WFP next week on a coastal contract that requires eye protection. Had I known that this would be the case before I committed to planting this spring coastal season, I would have taken work in a different industry. However, I didn't want to back out at the last minute and leave my employer in a tough spot, since they've been good to me over the years. I don't want to derail this thread about boots with a discussion about safety glasses though, so I'll stop at this for now: Western is apparently going to be conducting interviews with some planters for feedback, and I'm eagerly looking forward to giving them my unrestrained opinion.

[jdtesluk]

Just curious, did someone say Western (WFP) is making steel toes mandatory for planters? I am aware of the glasses issue, and will be looking into this.

[Scooter]

Western Forest Products is considering requiring all planters to wear steel toed boots.

I don't think this really sunk in when I read this earlier. This doesn't entirely make sense to me, since all coastal planters by necessity are required to wear caulks, which inevitably are steel-toe and steel-shank. Or are there WFP operations down in the southern parts of the Island, on easier ground, that don't mandate the use of caulks?

[Steorra]

Screwdriver don't bother with the steel toes out west unless you got a pair that still has a bit of life in them. Its quite freeing. Sorry to see you wont be snake farming it this year, that sounds like it'll be a fun one up in Sioux Lookout.

[philnyedaplanterguy]

Ya it was a tough decision, sounds like you guys are pretty well set up for a good season. You should come west with everyone at the end of the season, or I might just convince them else to stay out there haha.

Seems like a resounding No Toe verdict

[chronic]

Western Forest Products is considering requiring all planters to wear steel toed boots.

I don't think this really sunk in when I read this earlier. This doesn't entirely make sense to me, since all coastal planters by necessity are required to wear caulks, which inevitably are steel-toe and steel-shank. Or are there WFP operations down in the southern parts of the Island, on easier ground, that don't mandate the use of caulks?

well actually, a lot of planters wear custom caulked hikers. I know all my caulks do NOT have steel toes because of this.

all these stupid rules are what drives good planters away. i know the combination of shitty coastal prices (for the most part) and un-reasonable safety rules are why i do not do the island anymore

[Cyper]

I think Western has since moderated their requirements for steel toes but you definitely have to wear caulks, hard hat & hi vis. I don't know anyone on our crew who wears steel toed caulks. Why on earth would you want to carry around the extra weight. I had a faller tell me that he's been advised not to wear steel toes as they are more dangerous than not wearing them. Apparently steel toed boots are designed to protect from something dropping from above, not to protect from something rolling onto your toes, like a log for instance. Again apparently a rolling log is more likely to crush a steel toe potentially severing toes rather than simply crushing them - a lesser of two evils scenario? Has anyone else heard this?

[jdtesluk]

I struggle to recall any injuries in planting that would have been prevented by a steel toe. If toe protection was mandatory, clearly a composite toe would be better due to weight and (less) heat conductivity. I've heard the same rumor about steel caps cutting off your toes. However, in reality, composite toes have slightly lower strength than steel, and an impact that will crush a steel toe down will almost certainly flatten a composite, and turn an unprotected foot into jelly. All together, for planting composite would be superior for weight, less bulky profile, and keeping toes warm. Even better, whatever style of toe you choose to ensure the worker has boots with the best agility and balance. The most common types of incidents are trips and falls (more than 28%), so staying on your feet should be the main concern.

Glad to hear that Western moderated their requirements on toes. I have heard they are being less flexible on other matters. Are you permitted to wear climbing helmets instead of hard hats?

[Cyper]

Yes we can wear climbing helmets with bright colours. We don't have to wear safety glasses although it took a bit of a fight not to. They have to be available in the trucks. Other companies like TimberWest insist we carry them with us at all times just in case. Western will actually pay us for attending their EMS & safety pre-work. They have gone even more corporate by hiring a U.S. company called ISN Networld to manage their safety liabilities. It's such a transparent liability shuffle that it's sad. Although the company people on the ground really do seem to care about our safety, the corporate system is all about not being liable if anything happens to anyone.

[jdtesluk]

This is good news about the glasses. I have seen a few blocks where glasses make sense (recently brushed fills), and have worn glasses myself for a few years planting. However, on the coast and as a blanket policy did not seem to make sense given how fogging and dripping could obscure your vision. I know there were a few people that spoke up on this, and I'm glad Western was receptive to their input.

As for IS networld (and the good people on the ground), you pretty much nailed it from all I have seen, heard, and read. I do not know a single person in the OHS industry that has anything positive to say about that system. More work for already overburdened supervisors and management. I've heard companies needing to devote one staff almost entirely to that task, and for no apparent safety benefit to them. This one is going to be a major issue moving forward, as apparently other licensees are considering the system. Ugh.

[Scooter]

They aren't receptive to input on the north island, for at least two companies that are doing WFP work. Rather than sidetrack this topic about steel toes with a discussion about safety glasses, I'm going to wait for a week (to allow myself more time to bite my tongue) and then start a fresh new conversation about the situation, laying out the pros and cons in a diplomatic manner. Stay tuned.