2021 Public Bid Results

[Scooter]

Here are the results for another contract for Planting in Cache Creek

Contract: PL22FOR003
Client: Forsite
# of Trees: 772,610
Season: Spring 2021
Opened: October 22nd, 2020

At the moment we mostly have ranked results. As I get additional information, I will update this post.

There may be a typo on the bid sheet for order of bids, or else I have a typo in my numbers for either #06 or #08. I'm not certain.

I guess Apex decided that they don't need a helicopter for Unit Ret-05 on this contract, even though it's 800m to the top of the block on a slope that is too steep for quads. Those foremen are going to have chiseled calves of granite. I'll attach a photo that I took on the block, for pre-season workout motivation.

(I should clarify that if you're an Apex planter, don't be concerned. This project CAN be done without helicopter. It won't be hard on the planters, just on the foremen carrying boxes of trees up the hills of that block).

01. Apex
02. $444,251 - 57.5 cents/tree - Evergreen
03. $454,295 - 58.8 cents/tree - Zanzibar
04. Brinkman
05. $484,955 - 62.8 cents/tree - A&G
06. $557,048 - 72.1 cents/tree - Dynamic
07. Torrent
08. $554,734 - 71.8 cents/tree - Leader
09. $646,927 - 83.7 cents/tree - Folklore
10. Celtic

[Scooter]

Here are the results for a contract for Planting in Quesnel

Contract: PL22DQU001
Client: MOF Quesnel
# of Trees: 650,156
Season: Spring 2021
Opened: October 21st, 2020

Thanks to the Ministry for being transparent.

01. $371,323 - 57.1 cents/tree - Zanzibar
02. $386,874 - 59.5 cents/tree - AKD
03. $397,714 - 61.2 cents/tree - Mike Grosite Consulting
04. $475,588 - 73.1 cents/tree - Apex
05. $477,026 - 73.4 cents/tree - Folklore
06. $503,708 - 77.5 cents/tree - Seneca

[Scooter]

That's all that I have for now. I have one more busy week of viewing this week, but tomorrow may be a snow day so I might be able to do more internetting tomorrow.

Going forward, even though the weekend may not be the best time for people to be at the office, I'll collect all of this week's new results and update as warranted again next Sunday night. However, this time, I'm only going to share the submissions directly with the group of companies that participated by sharing their numbers. We're switching to a "gotta pay to play" model for a week.

Of course, any time I see full official updates from BCTS or the Ministry, I'll update them here publicly. I'll also catch up on all the brushing bids in a couple weeks, when I have more time.

[Scooter]

Here are the results for a contract for Planting in Houston

Contract: 2021-SILVICON-FCI-03
Client: Silvicon
# of Trees: 440,100
Season: Spring 2021
Opened: October 23rd, 2020

I don't have a full list of bidders yet, but here are two bids:

$262,740 - 59.7 cents/tree - Whanau
$301,381 - 68.5 cents/tree - Folklore

I should have more info on this one by the end of the week.

[Scooter]

Here are the results of another contract for Planting in Williams Lake

Contract: PL22TLE001
Client: BCTS Williams Lake
# of Trees: 2,575,221
Season: Spring 2020
Opened: October 22nd, 2020

Right now I have mostly just the ranked results. I will continue to update this post as I get additional information.

The majority of this contract is concentrated just west of town, up the 100 Road. There are two large clusters of blocks there with a lot of trenching but some demanding technical specs. The last 400,000 trees or so are spread very widely in about six different areas quite far from Williams Lake, so the crews will be doing some very long drives (sometimes approaching 3 hours each way) for a portion of this job.

01. Mikgrosite
02. $1,185,150 - 46.0 cents/tree - Dynamic
03. Seneca
04. Blue Collar
05. Apex
06. Summit
07. $1,320,812 - 51.3 cents/tree - NGR
08. Celtic
09. $1,583,816 - 61.5 cents/tree - Folklore

[Cyper]

Pretty spotty cooperation from contractors. I can't say that I didn't expect this. We can only hope that more join in the disclosure over the next few days. It would seem that given the reluctance of some to share their prices, that only those who submit should receive the bid prices that Scooter gets.

[Scooter]

We're at an interesting stage in the viewing season that feels interesting, at least in the north. It feels like there aren't a lot of bids opening this week, and then a larger number open next week. But the south is a different story, as there are four busy weeks ahead of us.

All told, there are still at least 36 contracts still to be awarded that I'm aware of, not including private licensee jobs that haven't been awarded yet. Yes, that's correct: thirty-six. Plus any public jobs that haven't been shared yet. It's rather unfortunate that there is so much snow out there right now, as a lot of companies have simply stopped viewing due to inability to access the blocks. And in those cases, if you're going to make a guess at a bid, you need to guess high in case there are hidden surprises that aren't detailed in the contract data. Such as the six blocks that are giant rock and boulder filled hell on a contract that I looked at last week. I'll hold off from sharing the photos on that one until after November 24th, but someone is going to get a hell of a surprise if they assume it's easy fresh raw ground.

Regarding the sharing of bids, to reaffirm, any companies that want to submit bids for this week's work can do so by sending an email to bids@replant.ca - please wait until Friday before sending anything. I'll compiling everything over the weekend and share the information on Sunday night but ONLY with all the people who submitted info. I'll then share the same info online here in December or as full results are released on BC Bid, whichever comes first.

[Mike]

in the bigger picture it's unfortunate to see Leader entering the Vancouver Island market...

From one of the earlier posts in this thread. Sitka gave a coastal job to Leader in 2015; I worked it; it did not go great. At the time people were talking about a Leader coastal job from a few years earlier that also didn't go super well. Leader in the interior was the best company I ever worked for, hands down. Let's hope they figure out how to transfer that effectively to the coast this time.

[YellowCedar]

“Let's hope they figure out how to transfer that effectively to the coast this time.“

If “they” (well, every contractor bidding on the Coast for that matter) start submitting fatter bids then they’ll have better chances to improve! It’s hard to improve when one is constantly bound by a bone dry budget.

I’m not disappointed to see Leader in the Island shark pool. They’re a good company and hopefully they bring some good strategies to the field. However they may soon find that there isn’t enough meat on the carcass to satisfy everyone and it’s just not worth the effort.

[candycorn]

“Let's hope they figure out how to transfer that effectively to the coast this time.“

I have a few friends that worked the Leader port alberni contract and it was a shit show. Lots of half days, 3 weeks over schedule, and fervent promises never to work with Leader again....

[Cyper]

YellowCedar wrote:
“I’m not disappointed to see Leader in the Island shark pool. They’re a good company“


I don't care how "good" a company Leader is, the coastal bidding climate will send them down the same path as everyone else who tries to competitively bid on the main Island - nowhere good! I've said it too many times already, supply & demand leaves no room for any company to get work at good prices. Whether they have the best history in the interior or not, they will be subject to the laws of the marketplace. One more company learning the nuances of trying to plant on the Island in the fall is absolutely not good for anyone!

The only contractors getting decent prices on the coast are those who have work in the mainland inlets or those who are tucked away on islands. There are also a few direct awards still happening on the Island, but they comprise a small portion of the planting being done and even though these prices are better, they still don't compare favorably to the interior.

Leader was doomed to further the low price "shit show" that so many others have provided. To think that it would be easy to do heli and boat work on Vancouver Island in October is very naive. When it's not blowing and raining, the fog rolls in. The ground is much tougher in the fall and Leader no doubt brought planters unaccustomed to the west coast ground found around Port Alberni. They were doomed from the start.

Add to that the fact that they took the work away from the local contractor and as YellowCedar wisely predicted, they did find that there simply wasn't enough "meat on the carcass".

[Scooter]

I don't have anything to post publicly here right now. However, for those who are curious, we have a pretty impressive set of numbers that has been compiled behind the scenes. Also, in the past week or so, I know of at least four contracts where the LOW bids were around 65 cents and higher (and these aren't coastal jobs).

We'll still be able to share some interesting information with the public eventually. For now though, there are still a lot of contracts to be awarded, and 2021 looks like it will be another strong year as long as Covid doesn't cause bigger problems than the industry is planning for.

[MikeBH]

It's really too bad that BCTS is using Covid as a cover for not releasing bid numbers. But, there's so much more going on that is strange. The Revelstoke planting bids were opened, but now the contract has been retendered. The North Arrow brushing contract seems to have just vanished with no results posted. And now, BCTS seems to want contractors to agree to a limited cost framework for Covid costs, but make up the difference in their bids. Leaving contractors to bet on whether or not Covid is a concern come spring/summer. I personally think the net result will be much higher bids. But, I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Scooter]

I believe that there are still approximately 18 public bids to be opened.

So one more thing that is "different" this year is how the time frame has shifted later in the year for many of these openings. There are quite a few jobs that open in the last few days of November, and first two weeks of December.

[Scooter]

There's lots of great stuff happening behind the scenes. We have a very comprehensive database of already-opened bids, thanks to an unprecedented amount of cooperation in the industry that has been brought about by this new BCTS policy.

In the meantime, if anyone is seeking work, there are opportunities in the BC ferests. If you've ever aspired to be a ferest ranger, please apply.

[Luke Doyle]

Maybe for Christmas we will get all the results at once.

[YellowCedar]

Goodness is it Christmas already?

Perhaps we can start a communal Christmas list. I can start:

Dear Santa, for this joyous, festive Christmas season:

I wish that everyone returns home safely after all the viewings are done.

I wish to find that the Island contractors have bid wisely on coastal work and submitted healthy bids.

May the ferests be with you all and good luck.

[mwainwright]

So BCTS decided to direct-award the Haida Gwaii contract this year, to Stephan contracting. I’m pretty sure that is a first for them, and the decision stems from not wanting to have a contractor bring people on-island during these covid times, as well as reducing the political friction between BCTS and the Haida nation.

[Scooter]

Yes! This was great to see. Great thinking by BCTS, that office deserves recognition for doing the right thing.

[jdtesluk]

One has to ask and wonder if there has been any wider consideration to awarding of contracts to locally-based contractors who can demonstrate the local residence of (at least a significant portion of) their employees? Given that COVID management will continue to be a heavy focus going into 2021, there may yet be cases where this could bear consideration.

[LiconC]

I understand supply and demand. I understand the metaphor of the big interior fish eating the little coastal fish. I understand how some contractors use the Coast to warm up their planters and are thus willing to sacrifice prices for this benefit. But tree planters (planters, foremen, supervisors, owners) are some of the most creative people I know and I'm certain they can brainstorm a way to encourage healthier bids.

To jump back to this frustrating topic, another avenue, although much less desirable, is for contractors to just do the shitty job that the current bidding system ultimately encourages them to do. It seems to me that lobbying for better prices, or appealing to justice or fairness with respect to the human value of contractors and their families is ineffective given that the entirety of this system is financially driven. Maybe a disastrous season is what contractors need. It would be absolutely brutal for everyone involved, and the idea may be simply untenable given that most contractors are already holding on by threads after being bled so hard by the present system. It is a revolutionary approach, and it would certainly come at a price. And frankly, it may just happen whether we want it to or not. Seems like we are pushing into that direction. And that would suck, but the bright side would be that clients would be financially motivated to install a more considerate award system that supports contractors in a sustainable fashion, rather than milking them dry. Excluding a used espresso machine on eBay, I've never bid on a thing in my life, so I'm mainly talking out of my ass here. However, I do know that large companies in the oil sands have mechanisms that prevent them from taking the lowest bids and have a fairly complicated and well informed award system because otherwise it turns into a shit-slide.

[jdtesluk]

There was a fixed-price RFP last year for a pair of jobs near Williams Lake. First attempt of this kind, I believe. I don't know exactly how the price was set, but it very much a decent price on par with the market at the time. Applicants then had to bid and provide information on 10 dimensions, including production factors such as their capacity and level of experience, as well as safety and other factors. Basically, contractor applicants had to bid for the work on everything they bring to the table aside from price. A panel of 5 people reviewed the applications and rated each bid. None of the applicants had a financial stake in it, none were affiliated with licensees, and all had extensive service within the industry. Neat process. Will be interesting if we see more examples like that. One may wonder if it would work on the island.

[Cyper]

Unfortunately contractors are their own worst enemies. Obviously they are also the planter's worst enemies too, in many cases.
To Yellow Cedar's Christmas List I say: my condolences as that is not going to happen. Perhaps Island contractors will bid wisely but those situated in the lower mainland, primarily Brinkman and Zanzibar are controlling the market here on the Island and they are intent on building up their volume at the expense of everyone else, particularly the planters.
Bid results are now starting to trickle out for coastal work and it's clear that these two ever hungry companies are intent on expansion. They low bid almost all of the TimberWest and Mosaic work that has just been awarded. The only contractor able to hold them off significantly is local to the west coast of the Island. Otherwise they are bidding lower than ever and driving prices back down.
As I've said before, the main motivation seems to be to populate their interior crews, as they can not make profits at the prices they are bidding. But since they are attempting to expand in the interior, they must expand on the coast too, at whatever cost to workers and other contractors.
It is a very sad situation as it seems they and others are intent on driving prices back down before there is any real reduction in volume necessitating that through supply and demand.
I'm very disheartened by what I'm seeing. There is not yet any real pressure to bail out of the upsurge in prices and wages that we've seen over the last two years. But big egos and greed are hastening the end of this lovely bubble we've been enjoying. It reminds me of a black comedy movie I saw called "Swimming With Sharks". That's juts how it feels right now. Time to make other plans as unfortunately and prematurely we've crested the wave of improving prices and are once again surfing down the other side towards an uncertain future.

[_I3^RELATIVISM]

That would be considered the implementation of a monopoly/duopoly in many other fields, but sure I guess in forestry industry is accepted. The planters are the only ones that loose from this. We would need to see more collective-run, cooperatives in silviculture business, to prevent this. or an actual different approach on said system I guess.

[Cyper]

Sad not to see lots of bid results posted here. BCTS has seen fit to keep them secret. Some are however trickling out. Beware these low bid contracts when you're thinking of which jobs to sign up for. Here's the worst of this year's bids:

MOFL Vanderhoof - Seth's Integrity took this one by leaving 47.4% on the table = $109,287 - 26.5 cents

BCTS Boundary - Brinkman took this one by leaving 24% on the table = $128,228 - 11.5 cents

BCTS Cranbrook - Zanzibar took this by leaving 17.5% on the table = $130,631 - 9.7 cents

[mwainwright]

Certainly looks bad on paper, but would it play out that way in the field? I can’t speak for brinkman, but I know that Seth and Zanzibar have both done those contracts in the past. Presumably they know the costs and margins associated with these jobs. Speaking from my own experience, just because someone else came up with a higher price doesn’t automatically make your price a bad one.

[Cyper]

You make a good point. I have no experience in Vanderhoof so perhaps Seth's bid is okay. Here are the only bids I know of from that job:
SETH'S INTEGRITY $230,288 $0.558 cents
SENECA $339,575 $0.823 cents
Apex bid too

Boundary I do know and I wouldn't want to be planting for that bid. Here are the bids I have from there:
BRINKMAN $536,297 $0.481 cents
EVERGREEN $664,525 $0.596 cents
Apex and Fieldstone bid too

Cranbrook has long been Zanzibar's turf so they no doubt know what they're doing. It's just too bad that they are putting in bids that are so low relative to the competition. They could be paying higher wages instead of scooping up more volume. They are obviously in an expansionist phase...
ZANZIBAR $745,661 $0.554 cents
EVERGREEN $876,292 $0.651 cents
BRINKMAN $967,094 $0.718 cents

Funny that Brinkman bid so high in Cranbrook and so low in Boundary. Boundary is the tougher job usually.

[jdtesluk]

Anyone know what the specs and conditions were on that Vanderhoof job? That seems like a pretty high price.
Seneca works up there a lot and has some local crews, so either .823 was a total flier or there are some challenges involved.

[Scooter]

That was a tricky one. Tons of tiny blocks, salvage work, etc. Not suitable for a large operation, unless they wanted to assign a permanent project manager to a small group of planters.

[MikeBH]

On the other side of things, there have been some ridiculously close bids that have been released.

Spring Tree Planting in the Fort St. John TSA

Results published after closing time. Posted on Tuesday 17 Nov 2020 at 01:21 PM
Number of tenders received: 5

The following entities provided responses:
1)Dynamic Reforestation Ltd - 1
$749,258.65
2)Summit Reforestation and Forest Management Ltd - 2
$749,266.76
3)Folklore Contracting Ltd - 4
$884,843.07
4)Celtic Reforestation Services Ltd - 5
$926,712.96
5) Apex Reforestation Ltd - 3
$795,642.37

PL22TFF002 - TKO - Tree Planting – Boundary - West

Results published after closing time. Posted on Friday 15 Jan 2021 at 02:38 PM
Number of tenders received: 4

The following entities provided responses:
1)Fieldstone Resources Ltd
$425,219.68 #4
2) Brinkman Reforestation Ltd
$334,508.02 #1
3)Raven Venture Ltd
$411,165.00 #3
4) Evergreen Forest Services Ltd
$335,157.39 #2

[jdtesluk]

$8.11!!!!!
That's .00001 left on the table!

I believe there have been closer bids dollar-wise, but this could be the closest percent margin ever for a job this size.
Scooter?

[Scooter]

Yup. We were all pretty amused by that one. Except Summit. Summit probably wasn't amused.

[Scooter]

Here are the results for two bids for fall coastal planting. I'll keep them in this topic, although we'll soon be at the point of setting up the topic for bids on 2022 work.

------

Contract: PL22TCG041
Client: BCTS Campbell River
Opened: August 4th, 2021
Season: Fall 2021 & Spring 2022
Contractor Rating System: Yes
Left on on the table: Negligible

01. $595,197 - 61.4 cents/tree - Zanzibar
02. $597,311 - 61.6 cents/tree - Evergreen
03. $599,935 - 61.8 cents/tree - Fieldstone
04. $776,885 - 80.1 cents/tree - Leader

We've rarely seen the top three bids end up being so close together, less than half of a percent spread between them.
This job has lots of heli work, plus a few islands. It also has 13 person-days and 26k+ cones.

-----

Contract: PL22TCD044
Client: BCTS Port Alberni
Opened: August 26th, 2021
Season: Fall 2021
Contractor Rating System: Yes
Left on the Table: 3.3%

01. $186,980 - 55.6 cents/tree - Fieldstone
02. $193,085 - 57.5 cents/tree - Sitka
03. $211,800 - 63.0 cents/tree - Zanzibar
04. $229,490 - 68.3 cents/tree - Mattock
05. $269,130 - 80.1 cents/tree - Evergreen

[pitters]

Any word on if the 2022 bids will be released with dollar amounts as in previous years? It was missed last fall and COVID seems like a strange reason for the change (That was the reason given by BCTS no?)

[Cyper]

The BCTS planting tender opening records for contracts that opened this fall showed the dollar amounts of the bids so that's a good sign that perhaps BCTS will relent and stop using Covid as an excuse to hide bid results for the 2022 spring bidding season. Hard to count on BCTS to be logical though. They have shown in the past that they do whatever they want and prefer to be secretive. I guess knowledge is power and the higher ups like to keep the power to themselves.

An interesting change in the 2022 tender packages seen so far from BCTS is that they are pretending that Covid is over and done with. They were offering percentage premiums in 2021 on top of bid prices so contractors could and would be encouraged to spend money to help guard against infections amongst planters. These premiums ranged from about 4% to 8% depending on whether the contractor was in a resort/motel accommodation or in a bush camp.

They are not offering anything any more. This is a cheap and myopic move on their part. Covid is anything but gone away. They as agents of the government should be encouraging contractors to spend money to protect their crews.
From what I've seen it's still expensive to do all of the right things to keep planters safe from the public and each other. This now includes the cost of testing and support from health service providers like Iridia. These services are not cheap.

The least BCTS could do would be to make a clear statement to contractors that NO they are not going to receive any subsidies and so should include these inevitable additional costs in their bids. There has already been at least one viewing meeting in the Cariboo where BCTS was not clear and so some contractors will undoubtedly not include extra money to provide hygiene, support, testing, masks, shoppers, laundry, camp food on days off and all of the other preventative measures that most of us saw in 2021.

I'm really not impressed with how the B.C. government is managing this seemingly never ending pandemic. From the cavalier attitude of BCTS to the secretive ways of the PHO who won't release all of the statistics of how many cases we really have, they continue to place themselves on some kind of pedestal. This most certainly doesn't engender trust in the general population. No wonder so many people don't trust what they're being told about the safety of the vaccines.

[jdtesluk]

Indeed, BCTS is not providing any COVID cost subsidies and have essentially said that contractors need to factor this into their bid.

There will be a "Market Summit" next week on the 29th open to all contractors, facilitated by the WFCA. Part of the discussion will revolve around the costing of COVID, and an instructor from the Okanagan School of Business will be sharing some his formulae and spreadsheets that he used to negotiate COVID costs in his contracting operations, including non-BCTS licensees. Given the wide range of business and finance knowledge in the contractor community, there are many that can benefit from parceling out these costs in order to the consider all the variables we are likely to face in 2022.

From my perspective, contractors need to plan on managing for COVID on one of two likely scenarios.

A) Managing it as a pandemic. This would mean that something bad has happened with the variants, and we have some enduring serious problems. If this is the case, costs will be high, and protocols (or what you need to do) will be dictated without a lot of choice in how you do things in the workplace because PHO Orders will set the path. Although I tend to think of this as the less likely of the two scenarios, I also would not want to bet my business against it, given the craziness of the past two years.

B) Managing it as an HR and recovery issue. This would mean that the curve has flattened, and the state of risk has abated. However, there will still be enduring issues around how companies deal with vaccination policies, expectations from clients, differences in ideology and views of science among their crew, and the overall recovery from the past two years. There will still be some costs associated with Communicable Disease Plans and the "what if" contingency systems, as well as a less measurable cost based on the consumption of energy and attention among management staff. In this scenario, costs depend more on the decision-making of the contractor and which path they chose.

I believe there have been a lot of hidden costs associated with COVID that do not readily fit into spreadsheets....i.e. manager and supervisor bandwidth, and impacts on planning and production. There are also unknown costs associated with recruitment and retention in a recovery economy. We have all seen the recreation and service industries impacted by the pandemic, and many workers turned back to planting or sought it out in absence of other options in 2020-2021. Surely there will be an impact on industry staffing when other industries gear up into recovery, and start competing for people. Meanwhile supply chain issues are not over, and some have just begun following the exhaustion of stockpiles and domestic supply, so there may be some costs spikes and shortages on some items. I.E. Wonder what the costs of F-350s will be next year?

Personally, I think there are ample grounds for arguing that bids need to go up significantly, given that both scenarios point to increased cost of business, increased cost of labor, and ongoing additional costs for contingency planning.